ninor

Hello all! So I finally pulled the trigger and got my brand new 2006 TL 6MT w/ Navi for $33,400 OTD and I love the car... but i still have yet to learn how to drive it! lol

so tonight is the first time i tried driving it around the parking lot and first 3-4 tries i completely stalled the car and then few times i jerked, few times i got perfect ones, then jerked again and so on.... i am just really scared that i will mess up my car and my whole problem is having the "feel" for the clutch in my foot. my question is.. how bad is it learning on a brand new TL, how much life of it will i shorten and how long did it take you to learn how to drive a stick?

KilroyR1

The TL is very tough as far as manual transmissions go. Between the electronic throttle and the odd clutch takeup, it's very tough to be smooth. However, with experience, you should be fine. Don't worry about the clutch, if you keep the car a long time and need to put a new clutch in it, so be it.

I'm convinced, if you can drive the TL smoothly; you can drive any car with a manual transmission smoothly.

Cheers,

Don

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

This is definitely not the easiest manual to drive. If your doing right you will occasionally stall it out so don't worry about that. Until you get good at it I would suggest driving around without the radio on so you get a little feedback from engine sound. It is not much but it can provide a little bit of help.

ninor

definitely not the easiest!!! i was told that VW Golf is pretty hard to learn on so I had my friend stop by my house an hour ago and I didn't jerk it or stall it ONCE... I was out and driving it on road with no problems. DANG it is so hard to learn on TL! hopefully ill learn in next 10-15 days, its good that i kept my old automatic car tho

realfresh

just practice, some of southernboy's threads/posts helped as well. I can sympathize though, this was my first manual as well, and then I drove my friends' RSX, Mazdaspeed 6, and others, and they're way easier. But when you get it down...

I'm quite happy that I rode out the crappy shifting in the beginning, wouldn't trade it for an auto

Rpappi

at least you get to learn in a car with torque. i learned in an 85 civic hatch with like 60 hp and prob like 40 torque. that sucks.

and it had a old clutch.

smx95

I have a stage 2 clutch in my maxima and after I drove the TL I must admit it was pretty hard to keep it smooth or not stall the 1st moment I let up on the clutch.

bob shiftright

Acuras-Hondas in general don't have the greatest clutch "feel", or at least my TSX didn't. You might consider one of the Skip Barber 2-day driving school courses if there is one near you. It's definitely not the focus of the school but they claim that they can get just about anyone comfortable driving stick within a day. And it's not your clutch, it's their clutch. http://www.skipbarber.com/

mu1980

You probably should've learned to drive stick on a throw away car instead of a new $33K car.

ninor

i tried learning on my friends gti but i mastered it within 10 minutes of driving while i still have hard time getting into first in my TL!

those prices are expensive! $1,500 for 2 days? i cannot afford that


yea i read his longggg post in "6MT practice practice" thread and it all sounds complicated to me now. i will be reading it more throughly once i learn how to get the car going first how long did it take you to learn?

mu1980

Ahh.. I thought this TL was your first try at driving stick.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

I learned on the CL-6, and about 1 week later, I had it down just fine. Now I feel like a pro. Just do race when you get the hang of it, and try to make the shifts as smooth as possible without riding and you should be fine.

Bob289

Yes very good info. I think after reading it I got more confused, but I try to use some of his tip when Im driving an Manual car. What I was is this if your first manual car so you are bound to ride the clutch, stall, jerk, and other things. Just drive what make you feel comfortable. If you need to get a new clutch no big deal. I learned how to drive a stick on the company car so I didnt care what happaned. After that I bought myself an 96 Prelude manual and I had a blast with the few hick ups but it happanes. good luck!

evil_acura

hmmm shouldnt be hard in my opinion,

took me 2days to get it down,

the only hard part is getting the "motions" down once you get that its really easy no matter what car. Just remember if your tryin to roll on first the main important thing is to push your foot on the gas the same amount as you release the clutch and when you start to roll you can just slowly relase the clutch as the rpms go up change gears.

ps. i found it easier to learn stick while driving faster so you dont get the stall effect, but thats just me =P. if you do follow my path dont do anything crazy like go 80mph and then think to your self so this is the stick, i push here, and then this lol bad ending

CanopyFlyer

I've taken a couple of Skip Barber courses and some other professional driving classes and they are well worth the money. Particularly the racing courses. They are a LOT of fun and you will learn things about your car and yourself that you never suspected.

No offense meant, but if you can not afford a $1500 driving course, why did you pay $33,000 for an Acura TL?

Here are some tips on learning how to drive a manual transmission. (Please don't take the following as my trying to "preach." These tips are for your information and no warranty is implied.)

1. Learn in an area that is enclosed and level. Like a large parking lot that is empty.

2. Learn how to engage the clutch and get the car rolling WITHOUT EVER TOUCHING THE GAS. The first 20 minutes of your driving a manual car your right foot should not be anywhere near the gas pedal. Keep in mind that a LEVEL area is necessary for learning this technique.

3. After you're comfortable getting the car rolling without hitting the gas, then start working on fueling the engine while letting out on the clutch more quickly. This will start teaching you how to get the car rolling more quickly. Keep in mind that anytime you engage the clutch from a stand still the engine should be at the edge of stalling. This will enable your clutch to last for a long time. Even an experienced driver will stall the engine periodically if they are driving the car correctly. If you never ever stall the engine you are being too hard on your clutch (do not presume to debate me on that one.)

The caveat to #3 is of course safety. If you're in an intersection and a big rig comes barreling at you then get the h#ll out of the way, the clutch be damned!

4. Learn how to match engine RPMs while down shifting. If the nose of your car dives when you down shift you just screwed up and your a piss poor driver. Learn how to momentarily "blip" the gas as you down shift, so that the engine is already at the RPMs needed for the lower gear BEFORE the clutch is engaged. If you let the transmission drag the engine up in RPM you are doing a great disservice to your drive train. Not to mention if you are threshold braking you could send your car into a spin. There is a technique called "double clutching" that is very valuable, even with modern synchro'd transmissions, someone posted a how to on double clutching in this forum, do a search to find it. If you want your synchros to last a nice long time then learning to double clutch is a must.

5. NEVER... EVER... downshift to slow the car. It is ok to keep the transmission in a lower gear to control speed, but NEVER to slow the car. Down shifting has one purpose, to have enough engine power available to safely perform the maneuvers you need to perform. IE: for accelerating out of a corner or passing a slow moving vehicle.

6. Heel, Toe. This means that the HEEL of your right foot is solidly over the brake pedal and the toes over the gas. It is awkward as h#ll at first but you get used to it. You should be able to clutch (with the left foot), Brake (with right heel) and Gas (with right toes) all at the same time. An extremely bad habit to learn is to put your big toe (or ball of your foot) over the brake and little toe over the gas. That's a good way to get yourself killed, because you run the risk of your foot slipping off the brake pedal.

7. Hills. After mastering the above on level terrain, go find some hills and you'll learn a whole new definition of the word "humility." Don't worry though, starting off on an incline is just a matter of practice, after a while it won't matter.

Welcome to the wonderful world of manual transmissions. There are techniques to get better fuel economy, more performance and better control in inclement weather, but save those techniques till you get the basics down.

Also, learn the basics from a friend or family member, then go save up the money and take a professional racing course. Believe me it is worth every penny, you will have fun and find out what your car can really do (on a track.)

My apologies for the long post.

Blue Skies,
CanopyFlyer

SouthernBoy

I would agree with most everything here except for one or two items.

Item #2, not using the throttle when starting out. I have heard others propose this over the years and my suggestion is to keep this to a minimum. Our TLs are not torque monsters and therefore, have little torque available at idle. So be cautious here.

Item #4. Yep. And I would recommend to ALWAYS release the clutch as you blip the throttle while passing through the neutral gate as this, indeed, will significantly extend the life of the synchronizers (yes, this is double clutching).

Item #5. I disagree with "NEVER... EVER... downshift to slow the car". What I would agree with is if the operator does this from speed (or skips shifts on the downshift), it is not a good habit. I suspect you and I pretty much do the same thing.. let the car slow down naturally (if possible), the just slip it into neutral and use the brakes. Where people go wrong with downshifting to slow down is doing this in too low a gear/to high engine RPMs in the lower gear.

Item #6. I can't heel and toe to save my soul. I've done it, but I never mastered it.


You've done a fine job here with your response. Let's hope the new manual user gets this all down and doesn't have friends or family teach him some bad habits.

jayunsplanet

iTrader: (1)

Wow, good luck. At least once you get it, you won't have to worry about it again. Nice info CanopyFlyer. I've been thinking about this, and reading some of the threads about the 3rd gen's manual. It would be nice for the dealer to have a test car that they could teach their customers how to drive their cars. ($33k+ car seems like an hour of time for learning would be worth it for customer relations) The first stick I drove was a 07 WRX. 2nd place I started from a stop, was on an incline, did it fine. I sucked on flat ground though. Only drove it for 15 minutes.

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

This is generally not very good advise. There are cars with heavy flywheels where this method is just fine, for most it is not. The TL would not be a good choice to practice this method.

ragin

Get a rental that is a manual and learn on it.

Macruz19

I had to learn to drive stick on my brand new 02 RSX-S. Dad showed me in a new subdivision road. I stalled so many times. After 2 hrs I was driving with traffic. The first time I went reverse was so scary. I was in a tight space and I had to roll inch by inch. I did not stall.

As for my 2nd car the TL 6-speed. I stalled during the test drive at a green light LOL! After driving stick on my RSX-S for 3 1/2 yrs I thought I can drive stick like an AT. Guess not till I drove the TL. A little difficult at first, but rewarding at the end.

Damn... I miss my RSX-S.

realfresh

I could get around comfortably (like not worrying about stalling in traffic, etc.) after driving a couple days. Keep in mind that I would ride the clutch sometimes, nothing too dramatic. ie, I would let off around 2000rpm from a light cause I didn't want to chug or stall.


To make it smooth (passengers not being able to feel the shift).... a couple weeks of driving.

P.S. I do have a long commute so I had a lot of time to practice.


Good luck!

realfresh

I can't reasonably afford a class like that right now. Acura has financing, Skip does not.

eh? spec

hehe, I made a thread about this during the summer when I got my TL. It's been a few months with my car and I'm driving it flawlessly. It was my first manual and I love it. Give it time, you'll get a feel for the car after a few weeks. The clutch is weird tho but the short shifter is nice.

SuperStar

My sister learned to drive stick on an 04 C5. I dont think you'll have much trouble.

SouthernBoy

Wow. 2000 RPM is up there for a start off from a light or stop sign. I'd keep that to the minimum. The goal is to use as low an RPM combined with a quickly engaged clutch, and do this smoothly with no jerking or anything abnormal.

SouthernBoy

Gentlemen;

Here are the primary reasons why the 3G TL clutch causes so many people heartaches.

The clutch pedal in the TL has a relatively short travel and an even shorter takeup (for those of you who may not know what takeup is, it is the distance the pedal travels from the initial point of engagement to full engagement). Also, it is common for TL clutch pedals to cause engagement to begin within the first 1.5 to 2 inches of travel off of the stop pad on the firewall. Along with this is the fact that the distance from the initial point of engagement to the point where there is enough pressure exerted from the pressure plate to start to move the car is really short (this is a prime reason for the jerkiness). And finally, the TL engine is not a big producer of torque and there really isn't a lot available at just off idle engine speeds. Oh, and the engine is pretty quite so it can be hard to "feel" the engine through your ears. All this means is that some practice is probably in order to re-acquaint yourself with your car.

Once you have become comfortable with the clutch and transmission in the TL, you'll love it. It really is a work of art. Wonderfully smooth and seemless is the shifting action and it all really lends itself to proper downshifting. Personally, I like a shorter travel and takeup and find this a very nice setup.

6spMike

Possibly the concept that is the biggest key is that of managing where the clutch just starts to engage. That's the point of #2 (not using the gas) by CanopyFlyer.
With your foot off the gas, let your clutch foot up slowly until the rpms just barely start to drop. Hold your foot there, or maybe even push it back down barely (like 1/16 of an inch). Then you can add a little gas (to 1000 rpm or so on the tach), let the clutch up ever so slightly more, until the clutch is no longer slipping (you'll feel it with a little 'bump') and then you can let it up quickly the rest of the way.
With practice, you'll start to feel when it will quit slipping, and push the clutch back down barely again to get rid of the 'bump', too. You'll get it to feel like an automatic in no time!!
This kind of really small up-down movements with the clutch at the engagement point is the key for smoothness.
I hope these tips help!!
Good Luck!!
Mike

6MTrules

I do a version of what sandynmike says.

I let up the clutch and the instant I feel it grab (but not a bump, just the slightest "grab". I can feel it, but no passengers really can, unless they REALLY pay attention), I give the slightest gas (so the RPMs do not drop), and then a tad more gas while letting out the clutch the rest of the way. I can usually pull from a stop in one car length at less than 1500 RPMs until I'm fully engaged, using this technique.

I do love how I now know how the car just feels like an extension of my driving - I know almost instinctively what RPM for what gear for what speed when downshifting, for example. And I'm slowing working on the throttle blip through the gate when downshifting... I'm still slow, though.

And doncha just love reading what SouthernBoy writes about MTs? Amazing.

realfresh

I probably should've mentioned that I didn't do that regularly.

SouthernBoy

Just funnin' with ya.

SouthernBoy

Well thank you there. Very kind words.. and appreciated. Hope it all helps.

SouthernBoy

Ok, since a number of you have told one what and how you learned to operate a manual transmission, here's my story.

My dad used to have a mid 40's Buick with a 3-speed column shifter. He'd let me operate the throttle while he shifted. This helped me learn to time shifts and began to make me see somewhat of what was going on. Then I discovered something in my neighborhood.. an old truck.

I learned in an old panel truck in the back of a warehouse. The truck had no engine or transmission.. really. But it did have the three pedals and the floor shifter. I'd get my dad to draw me the "H" pattern (3-speed first then later a 4-speed), then go down to that truck and spend hours, pretending I was driving anywhere and everywhere.

A few weeks after I got my license at 15, three of us kids got together to go to a teen club in McLean, Va. The one with the wheels had a 3-speed Jeep, and could only drive it in Falls Church, so he asked if any of us could drive a stick. I piped up and said I could, though I never really had. Well, I did drive his Jeep most of that night.

And that's it.

vector7777

My '06 TL was my first stick and yes it is much harder than other manuals. I'm still not all that smooth with it but when driving a friend's manual Saab, I am nearly flawless with the shifts.

Good luck and listen to SouthernBoy!

your_mom

This thread is hilarious. I tried to restrain myself, but my will has been weakened by demon alcohol.

[1] If you can afford a TL, you can afford a clutch or two.
[2] Good luck toasting a Honda/Acura clutch. As long as acrid burning clutch smoke isn't filling the cabin on a regular basis, you're probably all right.
[3] The MT TL isn't nearly as hard to drive as people make it out to be. Maybe I'm an MT savant (doubtful), but I've stalled my TL twice in the year I've owned it. I stalled my RSX Type-S about 10 times in the 7 months I had it.
[4] My boss drove us to lunch one day in my TL (I had my pupils dialated and couldn't see so well, the boss drives a Miata, and the other co-worker has a 'lude which none of us felt like contorting ourselves into the back seat of) and he stalled it once. As an owner of a couple Civics and a 'Teg, his comment was "typical Honda clutch, very easy. Tough to hear the engine though." Shifts for the most part were smooth.
[5] I let my idiot friend (didn't know he was an idiot before this adventure) who currently owns an MT Integra and is interested in upgrading to a TL take mine for a spin. My second mistake was riding along with him. He stalled it so many times, I was worried the battery was going to give out from starting the car every five seconds. Now no one drives the TL except me.

dplaya746

Wow i am in the same boat as this topic starter. Actually i am buying a 05 Acura Tl MT with navi in February but want to learn how to drive manual tl before i actually buy mine. I want to be able to atleast test drive it for god sakes. Anyway do you guys know if and where i could rent a 3G manual TL so i can learn. I was thinking of going to the dealership and asking to rent a manual tl but i doubt they would let me since i dont know how to drive it. I dont mind spending 200-300
I tried looking at Avis or Hertz but none of them had Acura TL's especially not MT

SouthernBoy

Item #1. While this may be true, who wants to shell out perhaps 1500 to 2000 dollars for a front drive clutch replacement (dealer prices)? Anyway, if you can't get serveral hundred thousand miles out of a clutch (assuming nothing unusual or out of the "ordinary"), you're operating it incorrectly.

Item #2. Please tell me you're kidding. If smoke from a burning clutch has managed to enter the cabin, the serious damage has already occurred.

Item #3. I agree. However, I will also agree that the TL clutch is not as forgiving as most every other manual I've driven, so it takes some operator adjusting.

Item #5. No one drives my TL, either.

Glad you had a good laugh. Hope you didn't scare the new manual users off.

SouthernBoy

This is not an easy task.

Try calling different rental agencies to see if they have any manuals to rent. My guess is you are not going to find any, or if you do, only a few. Get a friend who can drive a manual to rent the car for you and then have him take you to a good deserted location where you can practice. Allow a weekend for this if possible.

Good luck.

Adobeman

I agree.

I'd say better to stall it occasionally than do the slip-n-burn starts regularly. Sitting there embarrassed at a green light every once in a while is better than "lightly toasting" a clutch all the time.

As "Click and Clack" said recently, a friend (that never drove an MT) borrowed one of their MT cars. When the friend came back after a day with the car and said "Wow, I never stalled it once!" they new that was real trouble

bob shiftright

Hmmmm. 68 miles.

Local driving schools will often have stick cars to teach technique. As I've said, it's THEIR clutch, (and probably cheaper than a new TL clutch).

ninor

hello guys!

i'm glad to see you all posting here and helping me out, i really appreciate it! today and tomorrow are going to be big days for me in the terms of learning how to drive my car. my moms boyfriend is taking me to some parking lots today and my friend who has a 2004 TL is taking me there later on today. I will mostly try using techniques from first 3 posts on this page (southernboy, sandynmike, and 6mtrules) and see how that goes. my moms boyfriend has been teaching me to hold the gas around 1-1.5k rpm and then start slowly releasing clutch and press more on gas when rpms start dropping. my main problem has been is that when i start pressing on gas i usually start releasing clutch faster as i do not have the "motion" of "weighting balance" with my feet. i will post when i come back from driving with my moms boyfriend and let u know how the new techniques have been working for me!

thank you guys again