bored7one4

What ever you do don’t buy from Keyes Acura in Van Nuys out side of LA, Ca. The sales men and Manager there are rude and a bunch of jack ass. I got a quote from Santa Monica Acura for a 05 TL with Navi for the out the door price of 34,211.16 which is a very good deal but they didn’t have the color I wanted, only black on black. I was hopeing to pick up anthracite from them but they said they will get it in at the end of the month maybe, but are currently sold out. I called up Keyes three times and ask if they could match any offer I get from other dealership and all three difference sales men said they will match the price. I drove from home to Van nuy about an hour away and when I got there, we found the TL with the color I wanted, so we walk back to the office and talk about pricing. When I show him the email of what Santa Monica Acura offer me watch states out the door price is 34,211 with mud guards, he took me email and show his manager and 5 min later him and his manager came back and said they price does not include wheel locks and destination charge. So he added $101 and $615 to the price of 34,211 which made it around 35 k out the door. I was like WTF does out the door mean?? How can wheel lock and destination not be added? Out the door price mean final price right? After I spent over 5 hours there and my GF got tired but she really wanted the car so we got the price down to 34,800 out the door if I promise to let them finance me. I have very good credit over 750 and my GF which is average. With both our names on the car they came back with 7.89 for 60 mos. I was like WTF!!! I got really mad cuz I just pick up a 00 Lexus RX300 2 mo before this and our APR was only 6.45 for a used car. (I was told use car APR is much higher than new cars) Lucky we got our own financing from other bank so we decided to take there offer and re-fi next month. They said they don’t make anything off the financing at all which is a bunch of BS.
I do not recommend this place for any car buying at all, this place is all about making money and not keeping there word about matching other offer. They just want to get you down there and waste your time and hopefully you will get tired and give in. They avoid question that they don’t want to answer like when I ask them if they would match the offer if I show them an email stating that wheel lock and destination is included in the OUT THE DOOR PRICE I got from Santa Monica Acura for 31,690 before they lowered it to 31,450. “He said for that price it not valid” and walked away.

SonicDark

Just ream them when you get a survey

The internet sales guy at Power Acura in Torrance lied to me numerous times so when JD Power sent me the survey I reamed them

I ended up buying the car at Downey Acura 6 months ago. I called back my sales moron and told him a friend wanted to buy from them and to match my price. He comes back with a price $65 a month more (36 month lease) for the exact same car. The sticker price he was quoting was $1500 more. I told him that was BS, he said when I bought it they had more inventory. I said, you had 7 on the lot then, now you have 74, obviously the only requirement to selling cars is to possibly pass a drug test and hung up.

JeffS

I agree that Keyes has the worst customer service for their sales staff. My sales person cursed at me several times when I told him I was NOT ready to purchase and gave him the date I WOULD be purchasing the car, even before the test drive. After the test drive he thought differently and wanted the sale then and now, even though they didn't even have the car or color combo I wanted. He cursed at me, I got offended, grabbed the brochure and walked out. Shame is they are the closest dealership to me.

Have you tried cardirect.com or Costco program?

WdnUlik2no

sounds like a bunch of jacka$$es to me too. I had similar but not so severe issues at Acura Carland here in Georgia. I ended up going to Ed Voyles.

hcekc

Check out their website: http://www.keyesacura.com/index2.htm

It's gotta be the most cheesiest Acura dealer website I've ever seen and heard. Yes, "heard", they hava a very annoying song playing. Beware, turn your computer volume to the lowest level!

hcekc

Next time forget talking to the salemen, cause they basically will say anything to get you into the dealership. Plus they are the pee-ons! Ask for the fleet/internet manager instead. They are the ones making the decisions. Tell him the quote you got and ask him if whether he'll match that. If the fleet manager lies to you, then that's BS.

But looking at the price you got from Keyes Acura is not a bad one. Assuming tax is 8.25%, your cost is $34876 (minus wheel locks). Mine came with wheel locks, but I also paid $35723 (no mud guards). Cardirect.com's price before tax and destination is $34000 which comes out to $36805 and I doubt if this includes mud guards.

So you have to ask yourself. Do you want a very good price and have the color scheme that you want from some jerks, or get a color that you don't necessarily like for $615 less from another dealer? If you finance for 5 years, this is only an extra $10 a month. You can also wait for the 06, which will probably sell for sticker. If you wait another week, your color choice may be gone and you may be stuck with Desert Mist Metallic or Deep Green Pearl!

BTW, you can get the Acura wheel locks from http://www.handa-accessories.com/tl.html for only $33.

Hope this helps your decision making. Good luck.

tzakiel

I heard the song and I am scared. keyes keyes keyes!!!! offensively bad. (its nto the oepning video song its when you actually go into the site itself)

Will Y.

Call Santa Monica Acura. If they don't have the color combo, the sales people should be able to work out a swap for combo you want or get the car from another dealer, although it may take a few days. I had a decent experience with Santa Monica Acura, and we agreed to terms over the phone (I had to drop someone off before returning to dealership) so paperwork was easy.

chill_dog

I have to say, that is a pretty lame website they have...

Now, I have to wonder, why would you continue to sit there and put up with all of that instead of walking out...especially in CA where there are tons of Acura dealerships?

TLTrance

This does not surprise me (the APR crap)... AHFC will basically screw just about everyone who hasn't bought like at least 1 or 2 cars from them. Just buy it, then refi with a local credit union or bank.. You should be able to get it down to 4.5%. My credit score is close to 800 and I got it down to 4.2%.

acuraTL44

There website is sooooo annoying!!!

Beware!!! Do not go to the keyes website without muting your computer!

By there website, I wouldn't reccomend this dealer.

04TL5ATNAV

This is pretty normal salesman crap. You have to walk into the dealership knowing what you want, and being willing to walk out if you don't get it. The longer they get you to sit there negotiating, the more tired you will get and your GF will start in on you too. If your credit is over 750 you should have qualified for 4.99% or better on that car. You have to walk in and say "this is what I want, this is the price you have to match, this is the APR I want-- you have one chance and if you pull out a 4-square, I'm leaving." Remember, most of us negotiate an auto purchase once every 3 years (+/-) and these guys do several per day. They know how to wear you down, which is what they seemed to do in your case. Wheel locks and destination charges? Yeah whatever!

bored7one4

Well it seem they didn’t want to sell me the car cuz that color combo is very popular. Even when they added the extra $716 for wheel locks and destination charge the price came $32,166. They show me the invoice which said 32,016 or so, they would only make about 100 bucks off the car. I think the only reason they sold the car is because they charge me so much for the APR almost 8%. Well I'm going to re-fi with either my Bank or the Kinecta Credit Union I just joined today, depending on the APR. I wish Santa Monica Acura had my color so I didn’t waste 5 hour of my life over there at Keyes. But I still can’t believe that he said out the door price didn’t include wheel locks and destination charge!!!! The manager Julius is a %$^%# dumb ass.
I cant wait for the survey from Acura to be sent home, ill give them the lowest possible rating ever and ill be talking crap on there dealerships my whole life.

other than that i love this car.

bored7one4

do you guys think i should re-fi right away? my GF say i should wait until after we get the first bill.

04TL5ATNAV

Dude, I don't mean to diss you, but just so you are prepared next time you go buy a car-- re-read what you posted. Julius convinced you to pay $716 for wheel locks and got you to sign a finance contract for 8%. He's not so much of a dumb ass as he is a JERK who knows how to deliberately screw people. That's actually his job, believe it or not. Remember, if the deal smells fishy then walk away and come back tomorrow morning with a clear head.

What's interesting is the invoice price they showed you. California law (maybe US law?) says if you ask for an invoice and they show you one, it MUST be the real invoice. There's big hell to pay if they fake an invoice. So that invoice was probably the real thing. How did you come up with your target price? One way to shop for a car to immediately ask for the invoice, and rule of thumb: offer $1000 over invoice for imports and in-demand cars, and $1000 under invoice for domestic cars -- maybe even less in these days of employee pricing. An Acura dealer can't complain too much about making $1K off a car that won't be on their lot long.

I don't think there's any specific reason to wait for your first bill to do the re-fi, although it does make it easier to arrange the payoff. One month of 8% isn't a big deal. Definitely shop rates this time though-- start with a credit union. If your score is as high as you say, you should have no problem getting 4.99% or better.

Dr.Murdock

LMAO! @ the website

bored7one4

The only reason i got the car because the color combo was hard to find, if i wanted black on black with navi which SM acura has i would of gone there if color didn't really matter to me. my only mistake is that i didn't bring all my emails that i got from SM acura which states an offer of 31,690 with mud guard , wheel lock, destination charge. As for the intrest rate i didnt really mind cuz i was going to refi.

FZ427

Maybe they changed the mgt because three years ago I got my 03 TL and they were ok to me. Santa Monica Acura are ok too, we were there two years ago for my brother's TSX.

tzakiel

I just sent the following email to the sales manager at Keyes:

"If you will agree to remove the song from your web site (keyes keyes keyes... etc...) forever I will drive to california and give you my 2005 TL for free and you can keep the profits from selling it.

Jon"

Cant wait for a response.

wizlb

Keyes maybe a bad dealer but can you image only having ONE THAT RIGHT ONE DEALER in the state of Nevada.
In all of Nevada there is only one dealer and our labor cost is so high.

Acura signed an agreement with Falconi Acura to let them become the ONLY STATE DEALER.

In Cali you do have a options unlike Vegas!!!!!!!!!!

$650 to repair my 6mt breaks what a joke....

03CoupeV6

NEVER, EVER use Nalley. My goodness... they couldn't find their collective ass if they were sitting on it. The absolute worst dealer, period. It's a long story, but I may be taking them to court.

Anyway...

How has Ed Voyles been treating you? I stopped by briefly Saturday because my TL's transmission is acting funny. The service manager was extremely friendly, said that when I came back they'd set me up with an advisor, a loaner, and take care of my car.

KJSmitty

And if they agree???

mason1125

Annoying! Wait until you hear their commercials on radios! That Keyes, Keyes, Keyes comes up like every 10 minutes right after the traffic reports.

tzakiel

We're Wheelin' and Dealin' at... keyes keyes keyes! make it stop

pinito

I can't believe you bought the car there after that treatment. I would have walked.

SHRXTC

When I was in the market for my 05 TL, Keyes had to be the WORST!!! The staff is rude, the sales dept. are liars and the managers are thieves. I would never ever recommend Keyes to anyone.

I shopped around and bought my TL at Sierra Acura in Alhambra.
The salesman Sam was fantastic. I was very happy and my wife was so happy with the transaction she even said it was the easiest car transaction she ever had.

But....the Service Dept. at Sierra Acura is horrible!!!!
If you can recommend any HONEST Acura Service Dept. in the SoCal area, please PM me.

If you want to purchase a car, I highly recommend Sam at Sierra Acura. Tell him Mike & June sent you.

contraryan

I'll have to agree with the OP. I was in the market for a TSX last year and called Keyes on the phone and spoke with the sales manager of all people. He told me he had the one I wanted in stock (black on black 6mt -- only 1 in California according to all other dealers). I drove all the way down to van nuys only to hear him say "oh, I thought you said you wanted the TL on the phone". Granted the guy didn't speak great english, TSX does not resemble TL in any language. After tryign to talk me into buying a TL, I got up and walked out on him.

Terrible experience.

DanL

iTrader: (2)

They'd make a lot more than $100. You're forgetting dealer holdback, which for Acura is 3% of the base MSRP. So even if they sold it to you at 'invoice', they still are making $1000 or so on the transaction. Dealer holdback is how dealerships can afford to sell cars at or below invoice.

SonicDark

Power Acura in Torrance has a terrible sales department like I posted about but the service department is good. Although they don't have loaner cars the service advisors are knowledgable and actually know about the cars. I would recommend them if you can get a ride back while they do service if its something major. If they offered free loaner cars I would highly recommend them.

Phillyboi

I should of read further but instead I just clicked on there site. LOL, WHAT THE FUCK! that is just annoying.

Phillyboi

When I bought my car my credit score was crap at 624 and ok job. I got 6.79 for 72 months through AHF, one month later my credit score jumped to 758 after I paid all my debt off. Refied through a credit union and got 3.9% for up to 78 months. I am paying double now every month. No way I want to pay for 78 months.

brucedeb1

SonicDark.....Power Acura Torrance does have loaner cars. In fact they recently got a fleet of TLs to go along with the TSXs they were using before. The loaners are available when you make an appt. ahead of the need or if they happen to have them and your car goes in for an unexpected longer than one day stay. Ask for Alfred as your Service Rep. Our cars came with the expectation of getting loan cars whenever our cars are in for more than one service day during warranty period. If you have any problems there, ask to speak with Jon Martin the Service Mgr. Both Jon and Alfred know our cars and have always provided excellent service over the years for my wife's 97 CL and my TL.

WdnUlik2no

LOL thanks for the heads up about Nalley, I went to them once, but they were very far from my house and Ed Voyles was the best out of all the dealers I went to. I did notice that they emailed me every single day trying to get me to come in.

yep, Ed Voyles is very cool. There is one a$$hole sales guy that I worked with in the past, but thankfully this time I ended up working with someone else when I got my TL. I give this guy a A+. He seems to be one of those sales guys that are still there for you AFTER the sale. I haven't been to Voyles' service department yet, because unforntunately Carland is the closest to my home, but I plan to take my car Voyles for my next service because Carland service department also leaves a bit to be desired.

03CoupeV6

Nalley's the closest to my house (at 65 miles) and Ed Voyles is about 85, but I'll drive the extra distance. I've came to an agreement with Nalley that they will never touch my vehicle again. Horrible, horrible service. Rude people, stupid people. I hate the dealer with a passion.

I've gotta drop my TL off at Voyles on Saturday for a new transmission. I checked the fluid today and it smells a little burnt. It's shifting is getting more and more erratic.

bored7one4

im not too sure about this but i think think the hold back is what the dealers pay to acura to get there car on the lot, sort of like a little 3% deposit. After the car is sold then the dealership get the 3% back so there for hold back dont make dealers anything, they just getting back there deposit.

can someone check if this is true.

TL2X15

I even knew someone that works at Keyes and they still tried to screw me over. I started off at one price with them, had them write it down so I could see if I could get a better interest rate. When I returned they had increased the monthly payment by $30. I then had to spend the next three hours playing mind games with them to get the price back down to something close to what they quoted. I will never go back their! They dont care about customer service at all. I dont even want to guess about there service center.

chill_dog

It's the financing cost for the first 3 months of owning the car. The dealer buys the car from Acura with a loan (usually VERY low interest). If they sell the car within 3 months, Acura will give them 3% to cover the interest they paid during those 3 months. If the dealer sells the car in 1 month, they still get 3%, and therefore, profit (this is why if you order your car, you should negotiate all of holdback off of the price...the car never sits on the lot). If the dealer doesn't sell the car for 4 months, he gets nothing back from Acura. It's like an additional incentive to move cars quickly.

JeffS

What color combo did you get??

bored7one4

i got anthracite with ebony interior.

i called around everywhere no luck, but even if they did have it the prices couldn't be match to SM acura.

im very happy with the car tho.

DanL

iTrader: (2)

There's a good description of dealer hold back at Edmund's Tips and Advice page. Here's an excerpt:

Dealerships must have an inventory on hand so that consumers can browse and ultimately select a vehicle. Dealerships must pay for this inventory when it is obtained from the manufacturer, and the amount it pays is the price reflected on the invoice from the manufacturer to the dealer, the so-called "invoice price."

Now the twist: with the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3% of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for that excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only some time after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership.

Why the sleight-of-hand you might ask? Because holdbacks can benefit dealers in three ways:

1. Dealerships borrow money to finance cars based on an invoiced amount that includes the holdback. So the higher the invoiced amount, the more the dealership can borrow from its lender.

2. Inflating the dealership's "cost" can have the effect of increasing profit, since sales personnel are paid commissions based on the "gross profit" of each sale. Holdbacks have the effect of lowering the gross profit and thus the sales commissions.

3. Holdbacks enable dealerships to advertise "invoice price" sales and sell their vehicles at or near invoice and still make hundreds of dollars on the transaction.

This holdback amount is "invisible" to the consumer because it does not appear as an itemized fee on the window sticker. For example, let's say you're interested in a Chevrolet with a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of $20,500, including optional equipment and a $500 destination charge. Let's also say that dealer invoice on this hypothetical Chevy is $18,000. The cost of the car includes a dealer holdback that, in the case of all Chevy vehicles, amounts to 3% of the MSRP, or $600. (Note that the $500 destination charge should not be included when computing the holdback.) So, on this particular Chevy, the true dealer cost is actually $17,400. Even if the dealer sells you the car for the invoice price, which is unlikely, he would still be making as much as $600 on the deal (when his quarterly check from GM arrives).

Dealer holdback allows dealers to advertise attractive sales. Often, ads promise that your new car will cost you just "$1 over/under invoice!"