PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

So, perhaps some of you have read in the other forum (Tires/Wheels/Suspension) that I've been looking for a new A-spec rim b/c I hit a very large, nasty pothole in Chicago about two months ago. Since the incident, my rim has had a nice dent on the inner side and this has resulted in wheel vibration/shimmy at speeds greater than 45mph, worst at 70-80mph.

Well, last week, I finally decided to take the plunge and purchase a new A-spec rim from sunnyside Acura thanks to a tip from the moderator of this forum. Got the wheel for $330.00 shipped, no problems. Today, I decided to have it installed at an Amoco gas station. When the old rim was taken off, both the mechanic and I noticed a lot of engine oil on the inside of the rim .. it was all over .. in fact, there was engine oil all over the wheel well and over the control arm and the CV joint. He mounted my old tire on the new rim, balanced it, and then brought it back to install it on the car -- before he did this, we took another good look at where this oil might be coming from.

It was a cracked engine oil filter that sits directly above the control arm (right wheel well) and it was apparently smashed and cracked when I hit this pothole. The travel of the control arm seemed to be in range of this oil filter. It wasn't until today or yesterday that the filter started to leak. My engine was fresh out of oil... and I was running on no oil, therefore, and my engine could have seized at any time. I was very very lucky to have this mechanic catch this before I drove off.

Just a warning to those that take nasty, bone-jarring hits on their right wheel -- that oil filter sits right above the control arm and is therefore susceptible to damage, and therefore a near catastrophic engine oil leak.

Thanks for reading.

Ron A

Thanks for the warning. Hope there's no engine damage.

Maybe that's why the filter is so small, and anyone using a longer filter instead is in more danger of getting it hit than with the short filter. Which makes me think to ask you this-did you have the stock filter?

TheNip73

If I were you I would make Acura aware of what you think may have happened. Even in the odds of this ever happening to anyone else is very little, it may be something they can consider for the next generation of the car, or perhaps they will have what occured to your car on record incase you have any engine related issues in the future.

BTW... that must have been one huge pothole you nailed to do that kind of damage to the rim and the filter!

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Ron -- I had the OEM filter -- I always get Acura to do my oil changes, and you're right, anyone w/ an extended life/longer filter is at greater risk. I did call the dealership and they were not aware of any similar scenarios w/ 04/05 TL's, but I will call Acura to let them know, as you suggest, TheNip73 -- that's a good idea.

I'm so surprised I had no suspension damage .. andyes, it was a monster pothole, and it was one of those things where as I approached it and saw it suddenly ... I knew I'd be shelling out hundreds to thousands of dollars in repair money the next day.

SHRXTC

Thanks for the 411. This is very informative!!!

cM3go

Good infomation, thanks for the post Peter, glad to help with the wheel

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

thanks for the heads up... u would think that honda would have thought of that in the first place... but i agree that had to be one hell of a pot hold u hit for it to do that... hope there is no engine damage for u... i love the 3rd gens...


NOTE to other first gens who read this: Does not apply for us because our engines are vertically positioned... i hope i didn't screw up the direction... but again good info for all...

jmn4667

You may want to get an alignment as well. I hit a dip in the road doing about 50 mph and it threw the alignment out.

Good luck with everything!

svtmike

Now that is a nasty gotcha. I'm assuming tht you had no low oil pressure or low oil level (my old 1990 Taurus SHO had this feature - would come on at 1 - 1.5 qt low) warning showing on the dashboard.

Mike

avs007

I was about to ask the samething. I wonder if this is a domestic feature, as I just noticed my domestic cars have a low oil-level and low oil-pressure warning light, but neither my acura or infiniti do. hmmm....

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I try to give the complete details... therefore, here's a pic (just took off my rim to prove the issue to you guys):

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

See how close the filter is to the control arm???

Ron A

That's not the stock filter. The stock filter is about half as high and blue.

cM3go

.

catsailr

That may be why the 04TL went to the smaller filter.

MR1

I would just guess that the old cracked filter was removed on the spot.

Thanks again Peter.

J RIDE 81

The is awfully close. You would think this car would be smart enough to warn you when the oil level is low. It's hard to believe it doesn't

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Ron ..

that's weird b/c the filter that Acura put in was this height exactly (the same height as the white one in the picture) and was ORANGE. It said Genuine Honda Product on it... maybe they fu**ed up the last time they gave me an oil change!!?? Arrrgg... why didn't I save that orange filter??

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the old filter was removed on the spot ... even if the real filter should be half as high, it's still too close IMHO

Ron A

The correct part number for the TL is 15400-PLM-A01 (A02 can be used but it is a Fram so most people prefer the A01, which is the only one my dealer stocks).

The filter is only about as high as it is wide. I just did an oil change so I went to the garage and measured my old filter. It is 2 3/4" diameter, and 3 1/4" high. When they specify a certain filter, there must be a reason, and I think we found that reason. And it is Honda Blue.

TheNip73

I can attest that the filter in the photo looks to be too long. The stock filter is very, very small! The aftermarket Wix ones I have been buying are about 1/2 the height of the filter shown but slightly wider and relative to the stock filter it was much larger in appearence. I know the part number of the filter I buy ends in 334.

ndabunka

Peter - Did you get your service at an Acura or Honda dealership. If Honda, then that might explain the wrong filter. Sorry to hear of your issues but hope everything works out OK for you and I will also echo the thanks of this board for bringing the issue to bear.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

ndabunka... thanks for your support. I actually get all my service done at Acura in Lisle, IL. Perhaps they had their young tech do my oil change (why waste the super-intelligence of their senior mechanics on an oil change, right??) and they may have installed the wrong type of filter (albeit a Honda/Acura filter -- perhaps for an older model TL) on my car. This is so frustrating, becuase now I have to go get the new filter put in and pay for another oil change.

svtmike

I'm going to have a look at my filter tomorrow - the same dealer did the oil change on my car.

Mike

Lore

Honda filters are actually the same - I buy all of my filters at a Honda dealership since it's the same part # and much cheaper ($4.99 each).

Crazy Bimmer

Damn you never have good luck.

Then again i guess its good luck that you caught it in time.

dsc888

PeterUbers,

Thanks for being so forthcoming about this situation and sharing your experience with the forum. Even if this prevents one failure, you would have done that person some good. I only wish you the best and thanks for all the advice you have given me in the past.

dsc888

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

DSC, thank you for the support, as always, this forum is meant to inform and help other owners. And pictures speak 1000's words... I learn best by using visual cues and pictures, so I'm glad to add pics and share w/ the forum. Will let you guys know what Acura HQ says about the filter placement.

DarkWraith33

The stock one on my 05 was this filter you described to a tee... The Mobil 1 M110 I replaced it with was the exact same size as the stock. I am VERY glad I decided to stay with a "stock size" filter instead of an oversized one.

Sucks that the dealer put in a larger filter!

DarkWraith33

If they put on the "wrong" filter... There is no way you will need to pay for a replacement filter and associated oil change. For that matter, you could argue that if the correct filter had been on to begin with, the NO OIL situation and possible engine damage would never have occured.

Am I to take from everything I've read so far that there is NO WARNING light or indicator for LOW to NO oil pressure on the 04-05 TLs???

Lore

I re-read my owner's manual last night and there is a low oil pressure warning light, according to the manual. Not sure why it didn't light up in his case.

mickey3c

I was going to ask why didn't the low pressure warning idiot light come on...

TampaMike

Is it possible that this engine block has various applications (such as MDX, Pilot, Accord, etc.) and that the filter size may vary based on the application, even if the mount is the same?

Perhaps the tech that installed the filter assumed it was the same filter size for all applications of this engine? By doing so the tech made a broad assumption that all applications of this engine block use the same filter when in fact, there may be various filters that FIT, but only one appropriate for the vehicle the engine is in because of a clearance issue (such as this). Just my

Either way, the dealership has some "essplainin" to do!

A full inspection of the engine for damage, investigation of the oil pressure warning and some serious butt smooching is in order.

Keep us posted with the outcome.

DevTL

I would guess that the engine had plenty of oil and no damage occured,(hence never getting a low pressure condition to set off the light). Even w/a couple of quarts low, (which wouldn't register on the dip stick), there would still be plenty of oil in the pan to keep the pickup covered. Absent high revs going through the twistys, this would be ok for a short period. It would be interesting to know how much oil was added. Of course 1/3 - 1/2 quart would be lost changing the filter. In case anyone cares the mobile 1 m1-104 filter is 3in by 3in.

DarkWraith33

It is? Then how is it different from the Mobil 1 M110??? (Which is stock size...)

Everyone always says the M104 is larger than stock??? You sure it's the 104 and not the 110?

DocTL

If in fact the car was driven for two months with a broken oil filter, I can gaurantee that there was more than a half quart of oil lost. Also, it was stated that there was no oil in the oil pan when he checked.

Considering that the TL holds 5.xx quarts, anything less than three quarts in the engine should be evident on the dip stick. In fact, even being one quart low will show up on the dip stick. Furthermore, how would there be sufficient oil in the pan when it is being circulated and then sprayed out of the filter during normal operation for the pick-up to be covered. You don't seem to know about the major damage that can be done to an engine when driven for a short period of time with low/no oil pressure. Oil is the "blood" of an engine. Without it the engine will die!

If this were my car, I'd have the cracked oil filter in my possesion and bring it and the car to the dealer. I'd have the oil pan removed to inspect the main bearings as I'm sure they have been damaged. I would also have the heads removed to inspect the walls of the cylinder's. A similar scenario just happend to a fellow NSX owner who's oil pan bolt was not tightened correctly causing the engine to loose 90% of it's oil. The engine was destroyed and he's now fighting with the insurance company of the oil change place.

It may be too late for the dealer to take responsibility as it has already been worked on by an independent mechanic.

Good luck.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

The mechanic added 2.5 quarts of oil... then when I drove home, I added another 3/4 of a bottle b/c the oil level had gone down again.

I've put another 500 miles on my TL since this incident at the Amoco... and so far, knock on wood, seems that the problem is solved.

DocTL --

I wish I would have had the time (in terms of how slow/fast that oil leak was) to haul my TL to the Acura dealership to place the blame on them. They definitely are the only ones that install oil filters on my car, and unfortunately, they installed the wrong size (as I've learned here) and a harsh pothole hit has nearly caused me an engine -- and who knows what hassle (such as the NSX owner that you discuss).

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

What is our low-oil indicator .. what does it say .. what does it look like? is it that check engine light? I did get that a couple weeks ago w/ some spirited driving on the highway .. but it blipped for a second, and then never came back. I have read that this light is more likely an indicator of a faulty sensor on the crank shaft that can be remedies w/ a simple ECU programming tweak at the dealer.

TheNip73

the oil light looks like an "old school oil can" with a drip of oil dripping out of it. It is red and at the bottom of the center guage. It stays on for about 2 seconds everytime I change my oil. You should be able to see it (I think) if you put your key to the accesory position without starting the car.

I really don't get why car manufacturers make it a light... they should make it an audible sound so you know something seriously wrong is occuring...

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Well, I guarantee that I did not see this light.

How much damage could be done w/ my just running on 2.5 quarts of oil? When he took the oil filter out (the Amoco mechanic) there was oil in the filter, and a bunch of oil drained into a pan that he placed under the filter. Then, when he installed the new filter (as seen in the pic) he only had to add 2.5 quarts to the engine . .. when I came home, I added another 3/4 of a quart.