I'm sorry, but the TL rapes the new BMW 3
08-26-2005, 08:36 PM
#121
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To me the TL fornicates even (most of) the 5 series
My 
This april I leased an 05 TL auto navi for 42 mos at $475 (tax included) with very little out of pocket (abt 840 bucks out the door including the 1st payment) and since I am somewhat experienced in leasing I helped my buddy with dealing with BMW on a 6000 mile demo (they claim it was a finance managers free ride, it was in great shape so if it was a demo it didn't seem abused) 2005 530i with the works, almost every option, idrive navi, heads up display, their version of on star, adaptive cruise control etc etc no sat radio, no sports package and is an automatic, $575 (tax included) with very little out of pocket (no down payment or cap cost reduction, I didn't see the final paperwork so I don't know what they hit him up for lic and reg etc).
The car drives very nice and smooth but the only reason I would see me trying to get one for myself at the same price (maybe could get a less optioned 525i for about the same I'm paying for the TL..?) would be for the status factor. Otherwise I feel both cars are on par except driving in the snow could be a problem (although I've had a 5 speed Xr4ti with rwd and did okay for 5 years) and subjectively the TL interior takes the 530i from behind (consensually speaking of course). No matter what the outside of the car looks like we have to live with the interior even more and the BMW just doesn't do it for me (as didn't the G35x nor the latest Maxima which I would have probably gotten if the dash wasn't so horrendous) The exterior of the 5 series is growing on me. My bottom line: If you are looking for a day to day driver you will not notice a great difference in performance (not sure how much faster the 06 530i is) or handling bewteen the two with AT and if you are undecided by looks it seems you will have to decide by the status or the cost. Perhaps comparing the manual version of each I might of had a somewhat different opinion about the drive. That is my only regret about my TL, I got an AT because of the times when my wife and I need to swap cars
(I couldn't find the smiley for pussy whipped), automatics are just not really fun to drive 
By the way I am not considering reliability here. When all I could afford was used cars I got hosed with repairs (to me buying used, unless certified, is a crap shoot) and the last new car I bought was an 03 Mitsubishi Outlander which after 3 years was worth less than I owed. Plus by leasing, even if I didn't have my company write-off, I would still be able to afford more car for about the same monthly loan payment considering I wouldn't want to finance beyond the end of the warranty. So if you intend to buy and keep the car after the warranty expires you will have to consider reliability in which case unless you are wealthy I would stick with the Honda err Acura.
Dumont
This april I leased an 05 TL auto navi for 42 mos at $475 (tax included) with very little out of pocket (abt 840 bucks out the door including the 1st payment) and since I am somewhat experienced in leasing I helped my buddy with dealing with BMW on a 6000 mile demo (they claim it was a finance managers free ride, it was in great shape so if it was a demo it didn't seem abused) 2005 530i with the works, almost every option, idrive navi, heads up display, their version of on star, adaptive cruise control etc etc no sat radio, no sports package and is an automatic, $575 (tax included) with very little out of pocket (no down payment or cap cost reduction, I didn't see the final paperwork so I don't know what they hit him up for lic and reg etc).
The car drives very nice and smooth but the only reason I would see me trying to get one for myself at the same price (maybe could get a less optioned 525i for about the same I'm paying for the TL..?) would be for the status factor. Otherwise I feel both cars are on par except driving in the snow could be a problem (although I've had a 5 speed Xr4ti with rwd and did okay for 5 years) and subjectively the TL interior takes the 530i from behind (consensually speaking of course). No matter what the outside of the car looks like we have to live with the interior even more and the BMW just doesn't do it for me (as didn't the G35x nor the latest Maxima which I would have probably gotten if the dash wasn't so horrendous) The exterior of the 5 series is growing on me. My bottom line: If you are looking for a day to day driver you will not notice a great difference in performance (not sure how much faster the 06 530i is) or handling bewteen the two with AT and if you are undecided by looks it seems you will have to decide by the status or the cost. Perhaps comparing the manual version of each I might of had a somewhat different opinion about the drive. That is my only regret about my TL, I got an AT because of the times when my wife and I need to swap cars
(I couldn't find the smiley for pussy whipped), automatics are just not really fun to drive By the way I am not considering reliability here. When all I could afford was used cars I got hosed with repairs (to me buying used, unless certified, is a crap shoot) and the last new car I bought was an 03 Mitsubishi Outlander which after 3 years was worth less than I owed. Plus by leasing, even if I didn't have my company write-off, I would still be able to afford more car for about the same monthly loan payment considering I wouldn't want to finance beyond the end of the warranty. So if you intend to buy and keep the car after the warranty expires you will have to consider reliability in which case unless you are wealthy I would stick with the Honda err Acura.
Dumont
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08-26-2005, 09:12 PM
#122
Re: TL makes BMW its woo-mah
Originally Posted by Dumont
subjectively the TL interior takes the 530i from behind (consensually speaking of course).
Dumont
Dumont
tee hee...
08-26-2005, 10:01 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by mickey3c
Consumer Reports has replaced the BMW 3 series with the TL as the best car it has ever tested.
Yes, I think they can be compared in any and all ways.
Yes, I think they can be compared in any and all ways.
Since when was the TL the best car that consumer reports has ever tested! Interesting since it has dropped in initial quality as well...[/QUOTE]
LOL, that was the previous version of the 330i and the present version, which I own (for 3 weeks) compared to the 04 TL I owned for 18 months, beats the TL in virtually every single category including (to my surprise) the NAVI, interior quality, leather quality, wheels, suspension, handling, quietness of cabin, STEREO (believe it or not, the Logic 7 is better than the very very good TL DVDA system). I'm sure when CR tests the 06 330i that it will regain top status easily.
And, the new 3 is three inches wider and three inches longer than the old 3 (which I admit was too small). My new 330i is the same size interior wise as my TL, save for about 1/2 inch of back seat leg room. The front cockpit is about the same space-wise. Did I mention rain sensing wipers, adaptive xenon headlights that turn with the steering wheel, auto headlights, sport seats, 18 inch wheels. . . . I could go on and on
08-26-2005, 10:07 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by Wildcat Jon
LOL, that was the previous version of the 330i and the present version, which I own (for 3 weeks) compared to the 04 TL I owned for 18 months, beats the TL in virtually every single category including (to my surprise) the NAVI, interior quality, leather quality, wheels, suspension, handling, quietness of cabin, STEREO (believe it or not, the Logic 7 is better than the very very good TL DVDA system). I'm sure when CR tests the 06 330i that it will regain top status easily.
And, the new 3 is three inches wider and three inches longer than the old 3 (which I admit was too small). My new 330i is the same size interior wise as my TL, save for about 1/2 inch of back seat leg room. The front cockpit is about the same space-wise. Did I mention rain sensing wipers, adaptive xenon headlights that turn with the steering wheel, auto headlights, sport seats, 18 inch wheels. . . . I could go on and on
And, the new 3 is three inches wider and three inches longer than the old 3 (which I admit was too small). My new 330i is the same size interior wise as my TL, save for about 1/2 inch of back seat leg room. The front cockpit is about the same space-wise. Did I mention rain sensing wipers, adaptive xenon headlights that turn with the steering wheel, auto headlights, sport seats, 18 inch wheels. . . . I could go on and on
While most of this is purely subjective, it's hard to swallow that someone could SUBJECTIVELY think that the navi in the new 3 is better than the TL, or the stereo blows away the TL's. I think you just need to make yourself feel good about spending 8k too much.
08-27-2005, 03:21 AM
#125
Police
u should compare those cars before u make the decision and pay for the money.
what u should do now is enjoy ur ride.
BTW: TL exterior / interior > BMW exterior / interior
watever...
what u should do now is enjoy ur ride.
BTW: TL exterior / interior > BMW exterior / interior
watever...
08-27-2005, 04:06 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by mlionel
Let’s see:
TL BMW
Size: TL - Equal? BMW - Who cares!
Luxury level: TL - Questionable, giving leather quality, rattles, creaks. In fact TL is in NEAR LUXURY class. BMW - Class: Luxury
Power: TL - 270BHP @ 6200 rpm, 238 lbs-ft @ 5000 rpm
BMW - 325BHP @ 6100 rpm, 330lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
Performance: TL - 5.7 sec (0-60), assumed, BMW - 5.7 sec (0-60), published
Value: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about BMW - Who cares!
Gas mileage: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about. BMW - Who cares!
Audio: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about, BMW - Who cares!
Gadgets: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about, BMW - Who cares!
Reliability: TL - Please read numerous posts, BMW - Who cares!
Operating cost: TL - Good, BMW - Who cares!
BMW 5 series owners are not concerned about these as much as TL owners.
Hmm… You are right, you had to think really hard to come to conclusion that you have.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my TL. But I am sure that if money would be no object, I would have made different choice. People that bought 5 series do not discuss on forums if their cars can stand against our TLs. They just enjoy their cars and don’t care about any comparison.
TL BMW
Size: TL - Equal? BMW - Who cares!
Luxury level: TL - Questionable, giving leather quality, rattles, creaks. In fact TL is in NEAR LUXURY class. BMW - Class: Luxury
Power: TL - 270BHP @ 6200 rpm, 238 lbs-ft @ 5000 rpm
BMW - 325BHP @ 6100 rpm, 330lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
Performance: TL - 5.7 sec (0-60), assumed, BMW - 5.7 sec (0-60), published
Value: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about BMW - Who cares!
Gas mileage: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about. BMW - Who cares!
Audio: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about, BMW - Who cares!
Gadgets: TL - A+, point for owner to brag about, BMW - Who cares!
Reliability: TL - Please read numerous posts, BMW - Who cares!
Operating cost: TL - Good, BMW - Who cares!
BMW 5 series owners are not concerned about these as much as TL owners.
Hmm… You are right, you had to think really hard to come to conclusion that you have.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my TL. But I am sure that if money would be no object, I would have made different choice. People that bought 5 series do not discuss on forums if their cars can stand against our TLs. They just enjoy their cars and don’t care about any comparison.
which one is better? I'd say the more expensive one is better, but :whocares:
the car is better doesn't mean the car is more valuable. I just wanna spend my
money on something worth it and I enjoy it, that's it!
08-27-2005, 10:00 AM
#128
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
I suggest the main differences are price and snob-appeal.
If you compare size, they are almost the same.
If you compare standard luxury, the TL wins hands down. WRONG - NEW 330I HAS A BETTER STEREO, RAIN SENSING WIPERS, AUTO HEADLIGHTS, IDRIVE, NAVI, SAT, BETTER LEATHER QUALITY, ETC. I'VE HAD BOTH CARS - 330I HAS MORE BELLS AND WHISTLES
If you compare power, the TL has more. SORT OF WRONG - THE 330I NOW HAS 255 HP AND THE BMW TORQUE MAKES THE CAR AS FAST OR FASTER THAN MY TL
If you compare performance, the TL wins. WRONG - HANDLING OF THE 330I ABSOULTELY BLOWS AWAY THE TL - NO CONTEST.
If you compare value, the TL wins hands dow SURE.
If you compare gas mileage, the TL wins. WRONG. 330I GETS THE SAME OR BETTER MILEAGE THAN MY TL.
If you compare standard audio, the TL wins by a mile. OK ON STD. AUDIO BUT THE LOGIC 7 IS AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN THE ELS SYSTEM.
If you compare "gadgets", the TL is way ahead. WRONG - MORE GADGETS ON THE 330I, BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM.
If you compare looks (subjective), I prefer the styling of the TL. WRONG - 06 330 WITH SP BEATS THE ACCORD LOOKING TL.
If you compare reliability, the TL wins. QUESTIONABLE GIVEN EVEN CONSUMER REPORTS AVG. RATING ON THE NEW TL. I CAN'T DISCUSS MY PROBLEMS WITH THE TL.
If you compare operating costs, it's TL again. WRONG TO A POINT. 4 YR/50,000 MILES YOU COVER NOTHING BUT TIRES. BMW COVERS ALL MAINTENANCE INCLUDING EVEN THE WINDSHIELD WIPERS, BRAKES, ETC.
Hmm. Now that I think about it.... You're right. You cannot compare (favorably) a 5 series with a TL. It is unfair to the 5 series.
If you compare size, they are almost the same.
If you compare standard luxury, the TL wins hands down. WRONG - NEW 330I HAS A BETTER STEREO, RAIN SENSING WIPERS, AUTO HEADLIGHTS, IDRIVE, NAVI, SAT, BETTER LEATHER QUALITY, ETC. I'VE HAD BOTH CARS - 330I HAS MORE BELLS AND WHISTLES
If you compare power, the TL has more. SORT OF WRONG - THE 330I NOW HAS 255 HP AND THE BMW TORQUE MAKES THE CAR AS FAST OR FASTER THAN MY TL
If you compare performance, the TL wins. WRONG - HANDLING OF THE 330I ABSOULTELY BLOWS AWAY THE TL - NO CONTEST.
If you compare value, the TL wins hands dow SURE.
If you compare gas mileage, the TL wins. WRONG. 330I GETS THE SAME OR BETTER MILEAGE THAN MY TL.
If you compare standard audio, the TL wins by a mile. OK ON STD. AUDIO BUT THE LOGIC 7 IS AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN THE ELS SYSTEM.
If you compare "gadgets", the TL is way ahead. WRONG - MORE GADGETS ON THE 330I, BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM.
If you compare looks (subjective), I prefer the styling of the TL. WRONG - 06 330 WITH SP BEATS THE ACCORD LOOKING TL.
If you compare reliability, the TL wins. QUESTIONABLE GIVEN EVEN CONSUMER REPORTS AVG. RATING ON THE NEW TL. I CAN'T DISCUSS MY PROBLEMS WITH THE TL.
If you compare operating costs, it's TL again. WRONG TO A POINT. 4 YR/50,000 MILES YOU COVER NOTHING BUT TIRES. BMW COVERS ALL MAINTENANCE INCLUDING EVEN THE WINDSHIELD WIPERS, BRAKES, ETC.
Hmm. Now that I think about it.... You're right. You cannot compare (favorably) a 5 series with a TL. It is unfair to the 5 series.
08-27-2005, 10:24 AM
#129
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"Hmm. Now that I think about it.... You're right. You cannot compare (favorably) a 5 series with a TL. It is unfair to the 5 series"
It's more than twice the price. So is a 330i once you add everything the TL has. I think it's funny how BMW owners always skirt the obvious issues like price of their BMW. I urge everyone here to go www.bmwusa.com and build your own BMW, it's COMICAL what they come with standard. If I spent $50,000.00 on a 3 series...a 3 series?!
lol, wow.
It's more than twice the price. So is a 330i once you add everything the TL has. I think it's funny how BMW owners always skirt the obvious issues like price of their BMW. I urge everyone here to go www.bmwusa.com and build your own BMW, it's COMICAL what they come with standard. If I spent $50,000.00 on a 3 series...a 3 series?!
lol, wow.
08-27-2005, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by asdf23
why is it that we have people who are going from TL's to 3-series, but no 3-series owners going to TL's?
The next sedan I own wont be under 60k, so there's an example.
Also, if someone can drive RWD all year, why would they go to a FWD platform? I wouldnt.
08-27-2005, 12:39 PM
#133
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Wildcat Jon
MY ANSWERS IN ALL CAPS ABOVE.
Nearly everything you listed is expensive optional equipment- including metallic paint and leather interior. If you want any color besides white, red, or black, you'll have to fork over $800.
The TL, a true mid-size luxury performance sedan, includes all these things as standard.
Originally Posted by mlionel
... People that bought 5 series do not discuss on forums if their cars can stand against our TLs. They just enjoy their cars and don’t care about any comparison.
But most of them speak from a position of security and confidence and they don't feel threatened when they admit how nice and what a value the Acura TL is.
They recognize that it is "entry level mid-size luxury performance sedan." Not "near-luxury" as someone previously suggested. Some enthusiast magazines also call it "up-scale sedan" and group it with BMW, Audi, Infinity, MB C class, etc.
Other than price, what standard features do the best luxury cars have that the TL lacks? The TL comes standard with many features that are extra cost on the top-tier luxury sedans.
I have noticed that the same people who give luxury points to a car for having a status badge, will deduct points from the TL because it lacks that country-club, nose-in-the-air aire. I think that guy in the eye glasses commercial is one of them.
08-27-2005, 01:00 PM
#134
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I have to agree that for the price and options that are included, the Acura TL is VERY hard to beat. I was VERY close to buying a TL over a year ago and the ONLY reason I didn't was b/c I wanted something even faster but I paid through the nose for it. So TL is a GREAT buy!
Nick
Nick
08-27-2005, 01:12 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by mio
so u r comparing TL with 545? here is a little calculation:1 TL price x 2 = 1 BMW 545 price
which one is better? I'd say the more expensive one is better, but :whocares:
the car is better doesn't mean the car is more valuable. I just wanna spend my
money on something worth it and I enjoy it, that's it!
which one is better? I'd say the more expensive one is better, but :whocares:
the car is better doesn't mean the car is more valuable. I just wanna spend my
money on something worth it and I enjoy it, that's it!
Why in the world someone will try to compare something more expencive to our TLs? Just to feel better that we had such a good buy? We have what we choose or could afford. I beleive that for the money TL is superb buy. That was my point. However, TL does not blow BMW away. And that is my second point.
08-27-2005, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mlionel
What you said was exactly my point.
Why in the world someone will try to compare something more expencive to our TLs? Just to feel better that we had such a good buy? We have what we choose or could afford. I beleive that for the money TL is superb buy. That was my point. However, TL does not blow BMW away. And that is my second point.
Why in the world someone will try to compare something more expencive to our TLs? Just to feel better that we had such a good buy? We have what we choose or could afford. I beleive that for the money TL is superb buy. That was my point. However, TL does not blow BMW away. And that is my second point.
So simple.
08-27-2005, 01:47 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by ChicagoSteel
and... in the given segment, BMW doesnt blow the TL away.
So simple.
So simple.
08-27-2005, 02:21 PM
#139
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Sun sets on the world's finest sports sedan debate.
And at this point, we have reached some kind of resolve or agreement. I don't think we'll ever resolve the issue completely.
We are starting to get repetitive. This thread more properly belongs in Car Talk with other similar threads.
If someone wants to start a new thread over there, have at it.
I am going to put this one to sleep. Thanks for all of your contributions.
We are starting to get repetitive. This thread more properly belongs in Car Talk with other similar threads.
If someone wants to start a new thread over there, have at it.
I am going to put this one to sleep. Thanks for all of your contributions.
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