I'm sorry, but the TL rapes the new BMW 3
08-23-2005, 08:43 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Which SAE standard is BMW using (the new or old) for H/P rating?
BMW is using the new SAE standard. Accorrding to this new standard 330i has 255hp and 325i has 215hp.
08-23-2005, 02:32 PM
#45
Originally Posted by dtakai
Ok, I just happen to own both an A-Spec TL (with the Comptech rear sway bar) and a 330i. So, I've logged quite a bit of time driving both. And in the end, lets put it this way... my wife drives the TL and I drive the 330i.
If you've driven these cars, and can't tell a marked difference between the two, then I'm sorry but that's not good. I mean, even with the A-Spec suspension and the Comptech rear sway, the TL is no where near the BMW in so far as how the cars drive. The TL without the A-Spec, shit, that's not even in the same universe.
Now if you just prefer a softer ride, like riding on a couch, when you drive around then that's fine. But don't go saying "the driving dynamics of the 3 were superb, but not THAT much better than the TL..." Sheeze, you might as well say, "Hey, you all know I can't drive that well because I can't tell the difference between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car." Goodness.
If you've driven these cars, and can't tell a marked difference between the two, then I'm sorry but that's not good. I mean, even with the A-Spec suspension and the Comptech rear sway, the TL is no where near the BMW in so far as how the cars drive. The TL without the A-Spec, shit, that's not even in the same universe.
Now if you just prefer a softer ride, like riding on a couch, when you drive around then that's fine. But don't go saying "the driving dynamics of the 3 were superb, but not THAT much better than the TL..." Sheeze, you might as well say, "Hey, you all know I can't drive that well because I can't tell the difference between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car." Goodness.
If I own a 330i and a Vette, lets put it this way... my wife will be driving the 330i.
08-23-2005, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by castre
I don’t think its even fair to compare TL with the new IS. Maybe a Nissan Maxima.
08-23-2005, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt
Do you like Pizza? I kinda of like Pepsi better.
See, totally different things you are comparing, 330Ci is not a TL, they're in different leagues.
See, totally different things you are comparing, 330Ci is not a TL, they're in different leagues.
08-23-2005, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by acura_fantacy
YEAH, RIGHT! If I own a $42K car and a $32K car, guess what I prefer to drive??
If I own a 330i and a Vette, lets put it this way... my wife will be driving the 330i.
If I own a 330i and a Vette, lets put it this way... my wife will be driving the 330i.
08-23-2005, 03:36 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by Batman-JGII
Try comparing the TL to a true sport luxury vehicle like the 5 series and then maybe this discussion would make more sense.
The dimensions of the TL are almost identical to the 5 series.A 2005/2006 5 series, when equipped the same as a TL with Navi/5AT, costs $60,000. And, according to Road & Track in April 2004, the TL is quicker, stops faster from 100, and handles better in the slalom, with stronger hold.
Some people will spend $25,000 for those three letters on the trunk, and a better "feel" when driving.
I am not one of them.
08-23-2005, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MichiganRich
Your choice of terms (raping and molesting) is creepy. Once, making a salacious point. Twice, subconscious tendencies are at work...
08-23-2005, 04:58 PM
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i like the bmw interior better, but the car is just too small. i wish i could have afforded the 5 series, but all in all, considering the 3 series is smaller AND more expensive i'll take the TL any day.
08-23-2005, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt
Do you like Pizza? I kinda of like Pepsi better.
See, totally different things you are comparing, 330Ci is not a TL, they're in different leagues.
See, totally different things you are comparing, 330Ci is not a TL, they're in different leagues.
08-23-2005, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
The dimensions of the TL are almost identical to the 5 series.A 2005/2006 5 series, when equipped the same as a TL with Navi/5AT, costs $60,000. And, according to Road & Track in April 2004, the TL is quicker, stops faster from 100, and handles better in the slalom, with stronger hold.
Some people will spend $25,000 for those three letters on the trunk, and a better "feel" when driving.
I am not one of them.
And people spend $25,000 more because they can. We’re not driving a $60,000 car because we can’t afford it.
08-23-2005, 06:03 PM
#55
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I drove a 2005 6AT BMW 530 last week at a GM event. We were told by the event organizers to push the cars to their limits on a closed course.
It was slightly better in handling and had very good steering feedback, but overall the TL IMO can compare to the 530. The performance gap in acceleration, braking, and handling has diminished greatly for BMW with it's competition. It would have been nice to have the 06 model with the improved 3L engine.
In terms of comfort, again there neither car seemed to have a edge.
Likewise we're all entitled to our opinions on this forum, so expect others to have differences.
In terms of people owning $60K cars not affording them, talk to anyone in the auto repossesion business.
Back to the topic at hand
It was slightly better in handling and had very good steering feedback, but overall the TL IMO can compare to the 530. The performance gap in acceleration, braking, and handling has diminished greatly for BMW with it's competition. It would have been nice to have the 06 model with the improved 3L engine.
In terms of comfort, again there neither car seemed to have a edge.
Likewise we're all entitled to our opinions on this forum, so expect others to have differences.
In terms of people owning $60K cars not affording them, talk to anyone in the auto repossesion business.
Back to the topic at hand
Originally Posted by socal16
You can't compare a TL to the BMW 5. They're in different leagues. The 5 is smoother, quieter, and comfier than the TL. The 5 has no rattles or creeks that people often complain about with the TL. Style-wise, it’s debatable as to which car looks better, but the TL can’t match the 5 in the way it drives. And you can and will feel the difference.
And people spend $25,000 more because they can. We’re not driving a $60,000 car because we can’t afford it.
And people spend $25,000 more because they can. We’re not driving a $60,000 car because we can’t afford it.
08-23-2005, 06:16 PM
#56
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Birds of a feather.
Originally Posted by socal16
You can't compare a TL to the BMW 5. They're in different leagues. The 5 is smoother, quieter, and comfier than the TL. The 5 has no rattles or creeks that people often complain about with the TL. Style-wise, it’s debatable as to which car looks better, but the TL can’t match the 5 in the way it drives. And you can and will feel the difference.
And people spend $25,000 more because they can. We’re not driving a $60,000 car because we can’t afford it.
And people spend $25,000 more because they can. We’re not driving a $60,000 car because we can’t afford it.
As for me, I could afford both and more, if I wanted them.
However, I have both a TL and a BMW. I have driven many miles in a 530 as well. I can and do compare them.
I have NO squeaks or rattles in my TL after 16 months. It is at least as comfortable and more luxurious than the 5 series. Admittedly, the BMW has a certain aura or cache' because it IS a BMW and a legend.
Consumer Reports has replaced the BMW 3 series with the TL as the best car it has ever tested.
Yes, I think they can be compared in any and all ways.
08-23-2005, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
You are entitled to your opinion. And you can speak about what YOU can afford.
As for not being able to afford a $60,000 car, I should speak for myself. But I bet a lot people who own a TL purchased it because that was all they were willing to pay for a car. And at $35K, the TL was the best car out there.
08-23-2005, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
The TL is an Accord in drag, it stands no chance in hell against REAL luxury sports sedans.
The CURRENT TL never could beat the E46 3 in ANY comparsion. It stands NO CHANCE against the new one.
Some of you feel the 3 is not worth 45k. Many people think the TL isn't worth 35k, and would rather just get an Accord.
The TL is a fine car but nowhere near the class leading 3. The TL is only sold to us fat ass Americans. The 3 is sold eveywhere.
The CURRENT TL never could beat the E46 3 in ANY comparsion. It stands NO CHANCE against the new one.
Some of you feel the 3 is not worth 45k. Many people think the TL isn't worth 35k, and would rather just get an Accord.
The TL is a fine car but nowhere near the class leading 3. The TL is only sold to us fat ass Americans. The 3 is sold eveywhere.
AcuraGT-3,
All I am trying to say is that we need to look at the functional intent of a car to make sure we are doing a fair comparison. For example Edmunds.com does a pretty good job at this. If you go search under new cars and select sedans there are 3 categories that show up as follows:
Compacts: BMW 3 Series, MB C-Class, Saab 9-3 and so on
Midsize: Acura TL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, MB E-Class and so on
Large: Lexus LS, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, MB S-Class and so on
For the most part each grouping has similar functional intent. I am sure no one here will say that a TL will beat up on a MB E55 AMG but they are in the same midsize class.
IMO we should not let Brand dictate what class we put a car in.
08-23-2005, 10:33 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Saintor
Sorry guys, but I *disagree*.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...chmentid=53175
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...chmentid=53176
I have come to prefer the 330i interior (I prefer the TL exterior, though).
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...chmentid=53175
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...chmentid=53176
I have come to prefer the 330i interior (I prefer the TL exterior, though).
08-24-2005, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Batman-JGII
AcuraGT-3,
All I am trying to say is that we need to look at the functional intent of a car to make sure we are doing a fair comparison. For example Edmunds.com does a pretty good job at this. If you go search under new cars and select sedans there are 3 categories that show up as follows:
Compacts: BMW 3 Series, MB C-Class, Saab 9-3 and so on
Midsize: Acura TL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, MB E-Class and so on
Large: Lexus LS, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, MB S-Class and so on
For the most part each grouping has similar functional intent. I am sure no one here will say that a TL will beat up on a MB E55 AMG but they are in the same midsize class.
IMO we should not let Brand dictate what class we put a car in.
All I am trying to say is that we need to look at the functional intent of a car to make sure we are doing a fair comparison. For example Edmunds.com does a pretty good job at this. If you go search under new cars and select sedans there are 3 categories that show up as follows:
Compacts: BMW 3 Series, MB C-Class, Saab 9-3 and so on
Midsize: Acura TL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, MB E-Class and so on
Large: Lexus LS, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, MB S-Class and so on
For the most part each grouping has similar functional intent. I am sure no one here will say that a TL will beat up on a MB E55 AMG but they are in the same midsize class.
IMO we should not let Brand dictate what class we put a car in.
5 series is a more refined car in every aspect than TL....even the interior gives one a more upscale feeling than TL. I own a 3 months old 545 and the cabin is a lot quieter than TL. The quality af materials used inside the cabin is at least 10 notches above Acura's. 5 series is extremely smooth, nimble and stable at any speed without any "driveline vibrations" or rattles.The handling is absolutely fantastic, it's like being on rails.The only reason why I got a 545 over 530 was the power, otherwise these cars perform and are identical (525, 530, 545).
However most of mags out there place TL in the same category with 3 series, Audi A4, Infiniti G35 a.s.o. as entry-level luxury sedan and BMW 5 series in luxury sport sedan category.
08-24-2005, 03:27 PM
#61
First please no one blow a gasket here, but if you want to see a gr8 car that has more room,awesome ride and handling, well designed interior and more performance. You should at least consider and look at the new VW 3.6l passat with 280hp...Now I know the TL is a good car and everyone compares it to Bmw, Audi etc. but when you look a what you get for value this is a great option. There is even all wheel drive if you want .....I hope acura seriously looks at this car...If not dont be shocked to look out the drivers side window while being passed by one.
08-24-2005, 04:50 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by cp3117
First please no one blow a gasket here, but if you want to see a gr8 car that has more room,awesome ride and handling, well designed interior and more performance. You should at least consider and look at the new VW 3.6l passat with 280hp...Now I know the TL is a good car and everyone compares it to Bmw, Audi etc. but when you look a what you get for value this is a great option. There is even all wheel drive if you want .....I hope acura seriously looks at this car...If not dont be shocked to look out the drivers side window while being passed by one.
!VW : Engine horsepower: 280hp @ 6,200RPM Engine torque: 265 lb.-ft. @ 2,750RPM
Curb weight: 1,622kg (3,576lbs)
Acura: Horsepower (SAE net) 270 bhp @ 6200 rpm Torque 238 lbs-ft @ 5000 rpm
Curb Weight Automatic: 3570 lb
looks like that VW has some nice torque down low! If VW can improve there past quality issues, it looks like a nice rig
08-24-2005, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Batman-JGII
AcuraGT-3,
All I am trying to say is that we need to look at the functional intent of a car to make sure we are doing a fair comparison. For example Edmunds.com does a pretty good job at this. If you go search under new cars and select sedans there are 3 categories that show up as follows:
Compacts: BMW 3 Series, MB C-Class, Saab 9-3 and so on
Midsize: Acura TL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, MB E-Class and so on
Large: Lexus LS, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, MB S-Class and so on
For the most part each grouping has similar functional intent. I am sure no one here will say that a TL will beat up on a MB E55 AMG but they are in the same midsize class.
IMO we should not let Brand dictate what class we put a car in.
All I am trying to say is that we need to look at the functional intent of a car to make sure we are doing a fair comparison. For example Edmunds.com does a pretty good job at this. If you go search under new cars and select sedans there are 3 categories that show up as follows:
Compacts: BMW 3 Series, MB C-Class, Saab 9-3 and so on
Midsize: Acura TL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, MB E-Class and so on
Large: Lexus LS, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, MB S-Class and so on
For the most part each grouping has similar functional intent. I am sure no one here will say that a TL will beat up on a MB E55 AMG but they are in the same midsize class.
IMO we should not let Brand dictate what class we put a car in.
Read through ANY comparo with the TL in it, where it all lost in its CLASS. Not one 5, E, GS, A6 in sight.
The TL is 3/IS/C/G35 competition. To suggest otherwise based on size is ridiculous.
You cannot SERIOUSLY compare a purpose built 5 series and cars of that class, to a car based off an ACCORD.
The ES 330 is huge, its not E class competiton. The G35 is HUGE for its class, its not 5 series competiton.
08-24-2005, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MR1
A. OK, so what? B. What do you mean? It competes quite well in all areas. The only way you can consider an E46 or E90 luxury is by the price, not the features
What are you smoking? For starters the E46 starts life as an overpriced sub compact that must have expensive options to not be a laughing stock. It will out corner a TL; what else?
There are many less expensive cars that could be substituted for each. again, what's your point?
The 3 is a class leader only because of one criteria (cornering). A bunch of sheep have taken that for the Holy Grail of driving. Some of us look at the entire experience and wanted something more. BTW - BMW doesn't have the $$ to produce a reasonably priced and sized car for we 'fat Americans'.
If you feel that BMW makes the car for you, buy one. Most of us have decided otherwise for ourselves.
What are you smoking? For starters the E46 starts life as an overpriced sub compact that must have expensive options to not be a laughing stock. It will out corner a TL; what else?
There are many less expensive cars that could be substituted for each. again, what's your point?
The 3 is a class leader only because of one criteria (cornering). A bunch of sheep have taken that for the Holy Grail of driving. Some of us look at the entire experience and wanted something more. BTW - BMW doesn't have the $$ to produce a reasonably priced and sized car for we 'fat Americans'.
If you feel that BMW makes the car for you, buy one. Most of us have decided otherwise for ourselves.
2. No one said the TL is not a good value/car. IT IS.
3. U have no point.
4. If you think the 3 is class leader b/c of one trait, you need to get your head examined.
And oh, btw, what car did Acura officials say they chased when making the new TL?
08-24-2005, 09:25 PM
#65
Consumer Reports has replaced the BMW 3 series with the TL as the best car it has ever tested.
Yes, I think they can be compared in any and all ways.[/QUOTE]
Since when was the TL the best car that consumer reports has ever tested! Interesting since it has dropped in initial quality as well...
Yes, I think they can be compared in any and all ways.[/QUOTE]
Since when was the TL the best car that consumer reports has ever tested! Interesting since it has dropped in initial quality as well...
08-24-2005, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
I am assuming your a young kid b/c its common knowledge SIZE does not EQUATE CLASS.
Read through ANY comparo with the TL in it, where it all lost in its CLASS. Not one 5, E, GS, A6 in sight.
The TL is 3/IS/C/G35 competition. To suggest otherwise based on size is ridiculous.
You cannot SERIOUSLY compare a purpose built 5 series and cars of that class, to a car based off an ACCORD.
The ES 330 is huge, its not E class competiton. The G35 is HUGE for its class, its not 5 series competiton.
Read through ANY comparo with the TL in it, where it all lost in its CLASS. Not one 5, E, GS, A6 in sight.
The TL is 3/IS/C/G35 competition. To suggest otherwise based on size is ridiculous.
You cannot SERIOUSLY compare a purpose built 5 series and cars of that class, to a car based off an ACCORD.
The ES 330 is huge, its not E class competiton. The G35 is HUGE for its class, its not 5 series competiton.
08-24-2005, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TLover
Cars are generally lumped together that cost the same. Unfortunately, the 3-series is way more expensive than a TL. The BMW is great, but it is OVERPRICED.
The RL is overpriced. Its not selling, its brand new, dealers need 5k discounts to sell the car.
The 3 has NEVER needed a discount to sell it.
08-24-2005, 10:21 PM
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I owned a 2004 Acura TL for 18 mos. with over 20,000 miles, but cannot go into more details about it. Needless to say, I no longer drive it or own it and I'm ecstatic with the replacement. I have a 330i/step/tiag/sport/premium/cold weather/navi-idrive/sat radio/black leather/poplar. This car, albeit similarly equipped about $10K more than the TL blows away the TL in every respect. I have 1800 miles and counting and I'm loving every minute of it. The TL is a nice car for the money, but with FWD and that HP, the car is overmatched. The steering is also very boosted (overboosted?) or too floaty compared to the e90. Can't discuss the other issues. In any event, I highly recommend the 330i and have owned both. (my first bmw by the way). P.S. The service is 180 degrees positive as well vs. the generally weak acura experience. And this from someone who loved his TL (18 mos. ago) but has now seen the light. P.S.S. I also was not overly impressed with the 05 330i vs. the TL for the $$, but the new e90 06 330i . . . .amazing.
08-24-2005, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
The 3 maybe overpriced TO YOU. But CLEARY, looking at sales here, in Europe, EVERYWHERE, people think its WORTH it. They have for over 20 years now.
The RL is overpriced. Its not selling, its brand new, dealers need 5k discounts to sell the car.
The 3 has NEVER needed a discount to sell it.
The RL is overpriced. Its not selling, its brand new, dealers need 5k discounts to sell the car.
The 3 has NEVER needed a discount to sell it.
08-24-2005, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
The 3 maybe overpriced TO YOU. But CLEARY, looking at sales here, in Europe, EVERYWHERE, people think its WORTH it. They have for over 20 years now.
The RL is overpriced. Its not selling, its brand new, dealers need 5k discounts to sell the car.
The 3 has NEVER needed a discount to sell it.
The RL is overpriced. Its not selling, its brand new, dealers need 5k discounts to sell the car.
The 3 has NEVER needed a discount to sell it.
08-25-2005, 12:26 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by Wildcat Jon
I owned a 2004 Acura TL for 18 mos. with over 20,000 miles, but cannot go into more details about it. Needless to say, I no longer drive it or own it and I'm ecstatic with the replacement. I have a 330i/step/tiag/sport/premium/cold weather/navi-idrive/sat radio/black leather/poplar. This car, albeit similarly equipped about $10K more than the TL blows away the TL in every respect. I have 1800 miles and counting and I'm loving every minute of it. The TL is a nice car for the money, but with FWD and that HP, the car is overmatched. The steering is also very boosted (overboosted?) or too floaty compared to the e90. Can't discuss the other issues. In any event, I highly recommend the 330i and have owned both. (my first bmw by the way). P.S. The service is 180 degrees positive as well vs. the generally weak acura experience. And this from someone who loved his TL (18 mos. ago) but has now seen the light. P.S.S. I also was not overly impressed with the 05 330i vs. the TL for the $$, but the new e90 06 330i . . . .amazing.
08-25-2005, 02:07 AM
#73
Senior Moderator
Say it with dollars
Originally Posted by mickey3c
Since when was the TL the best car that consumer reports has ever tested! Interesting since it has dropped in initial quality as well...
Interestingly, in a related article, CR said that the TL had dethroned the 3 series as their standard against which all cars are tested for the first time in about five years. Even with a dip in overall quality, it still gets an average rating. Same as the 3 series, BTW.
And elsewhere, CR gives the BMW 7 series the honor of being a bad car to be avoided because of reliability problems.
If someone is enamored with the BMW marque, wants the panache and prestige or owning a German car with razor sharp handling and feel, and is willing to spend the extra $25,000 for a comparably sized and equipped 5 series- I say: Go for it and enjoy! If you have bought into the marketing hype, then I congratulate their advertising agency.
But don't kid yourself that the BMW 530i performs better objectively speaking. It may "feel" like the next best thing to sex, but the TL is going to get there first- either in a straight line or a curvy road course. (see Road & Track, April 2004)
The new 3 series, being smaller, lighter should handle better than the 530. I haven't seen a comparison yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do better than the 530 and the TL. But marginally.
Actually, I watch BMW 3's and Acura TSXs race almost every weekend on TV. They are pretty evenly matched. Sometimes both are beaten by a Mazda 6.
I love BMWs. I have one. But it's just a car. And my TL is much more luxurious and comfortable over the road than my 3.
Someone mentioned before that the 3 series is a compact sport sedan. The TL is a mid-size entry-level performance/luxury sedan and it holds its own in some pretty fast (and expensive) company. Different targeted markets, for sure.
Someone asked what Acura's target was in designing the TL. The TL is a bald-faced coup against the BMW 530. You can overlap their profiles and they are almost identical in size and shape. But Acura didn't strive to equal the 5 series; they wanted to better it for less money.
Whether they did or not is a matter of opinion. I voted with my $$. I bought a TL.
08-25-2005, 02:11 AM
#74
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Don't even bother what other people, especially those 3-series owners, say about your TL alright? Of course they say their car is better than yours, and now you say yours is better than theirs, there will be no ending of these controversies. I, a G35 sedan owner, would say G35 sedan is better than everything else, but why do you care? As long as you like your car, that is enough.
08-25-2005, 07:24 AM
#76
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Originally Posted by SilverCL225hp
I, a G35 sedan owner, would say G35 sedan is better than everything else, but why do you care?
08-25-2005, 09:40 AM
#78
AZ Community Team
Well written post.
Originally Posted by Xpditor
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/...=1124944706184 (This link requires you to be a subscriber to Consumer Reports. If you aren't, it lists the Acura TL at the top of the list of recommended cars over the BMW 330i and many others previously mentioned as potential competition.)
Interestingly, in a related article, CR said that the TL had dethroned the 3 series as their standard against which all cars are tested for the first time in about five years. Even with a dip in overall quality, it still gets an average rating. Same as the 3 series, BTW.
And elsewhere, CR gives the BMW 7 series the honor of being a bad car to be avoided because of reliability problems.
If someone is enamored with the BMW marque, wants the panache and prestige or owning a German car with razor sharp handling and feel, and is willing to spend the extra $25,000 for a comparably sized and equipped 5 series- I say: Go for it and enjoy! If you have bought into the marketing hype, then I congratulate their advertising agency.
But don't kid yourself that the BMW 530i performs better objectively speaking. It may "feel" like the next best thing to sex, but the TL is going to get there first- either in a straight line or a curvy road course. (see Road & Track, April 2004)
The new 3 series, being smaller, lighter should handle better than the 530. I haven't seen a comparison yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do better than the 530 and the TL. But marginally.
Actually, I watch BMW 3's and Acura TSXs race almost every weekend on TV. They are pretty evenly matched. Sometimes both are beaten by a Mazda 6.
I love BMWs. I have one. But it's just a car. And my TL is much more luxurious and comfortable over the road than my 3.
Someone mentioned before that the 3 series is a compact sport sedan. The TL is a mid-size entry-level performance/luxury sedan and it holds its own in some pretty fast (and expensive) company. Different targeted markets, for sure.
Someone asked what Acura's target was in designing the TL. The TL is a bald-faced coup against the BMW 530. You can overlap their profiles and they are almost identical in size and shape. But Acura didn't strive to equal the 5 series; they wanted to better it for less money.
Whether they did or not is a matter of opinion. I voted with my $$. I bought a TL.
Interestingly, in a related article, CR said that the TL had dethroned the 3 series as their standard against which all cars are tested for the first time in about five years. Even with a dip in overall quality, it still gets an average rating. Same as the 3 series, BTW.
And elsewhere, CR gives the BMW 7 series the honor of being a bad car to be avoided because of reliability problems.
If someone is enamored with the BMW marque, wants the panache and prestige or owning a German car with razor sharp handling and feel, and is willing to spend the extra $25,000 for a comparably sized and equipped 5 series- I say: Go for it and enjoy! If you have bought into the marketing hype, then I congratulate their advertising agency.
But don't kid yourself that the BMW 530i performs better objectively speaking. It may "feel" like the next best thing to sex, but the TL is going to get there first- either in a straight line or a curvy road course. (see Road & Track, April 2004)
The new 3 series, being smaller, lighter should handle better than the 530. I haven't seen a comparison yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do better than the 530 and the TL. But marginally.
Actually, I watch BMW 3's and Acura TSXs race almost every weekend on TV. They are pretty evenly matched. Sometimes both are beaten by a Mazda 6.
I love BMWs. I have one. But it's just a car. And my TL is much more luxurious and comfortable over the road than my 3.
Someone mentioned before that the 3 series is a compact sport sedan. The TL is a mid-size entry-level performance/luxury sedan and it holds its own in some pretty fast (and expensive) company. Different targeted markets, for sure.
Someone asked what Acura's target was in designing the TL. The TL is a bald-faced coup against the BMW 530. You can overlap their profiles and they are almost identical in size and shape. But Acura didn't strive to equal the 5 series; they wanted to better it for less money.
Whether they did or not is a matter of opinion. I voted with my $$. I bought a TL.
08-25-2005, 10:15 AM
#79
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
I am assuming your a young kid b/c its common knowledge SIZE does not EQUATE CLASS.
Read through ANY comparo with the TL in it, where it all lost in its CLASS. Not one 5, E, GS, A6 in sight.
The TL is 3/IS/C/G35 competition. To suggest otherwise based on size is ridiculous.
You cannot SERIOUSLY compare a purpose built 5 series and cars of that class, to a car based off an ACCORD.
The ES 330 is huge, its not E class competiton. The G35 is HUGE for its class, its not 5 series competiton.
Read through ANY comparo with the TL in it, where it all lost in its CLASS. Not one 5, E, GS, A6 in sight.
The TL is 3/IS/C/G35 competition. To suggest otherwise based on size is ridiculous.
You cannot SERIOUSLY compare a purpose built 5 series and cars of that class, to a car based off an ACCORD.
The ES 330 is huge, its not E class competiton. The G35 is HUGE for its class, its not 5 series competiton.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. It’s clearly a fact that size is a major component for functionality when looking for a car. If you have a family of 5 you would not go buy a VW Bug. You will probably look for a mid-size four door car. I think we both presented our points which is the purpose of this great forum and this debate will continue. Have a good one.
And by the way thanks for the compliment, I haven’t been called a young kid in a long time.
08-25-2005, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/...=1124944706184 (This link requires you to be a subscriber to Consumer Reports. If you aren't, it lists the Acura TL at the top of the list of recommended cars over the BMW 330i and many others previously mentioned as potential competition.)
Interestingly, in a related article, CR said that the TL had dethroned the 3 series as their standard against which all cars are tested for the first time in about five years. Even with a dip in overall quality, it still gets an average rating. Same as the 3 series, BTW.
And elsewhere, CR gives the BMW 7 series the honor of being a bad car to be avoided because of reliability problems.
If someone is enamored with the BMW marque, wants the panache and prestige or owning a German car with razor sharp handling and feel, and is willing to spend the extra $25,000 for a comparably sized and equipped 5 series- I say: Go for it and enjoy! If you have bought into the marketing hype, then I congratulate their advertising agency.
But don't kid yourself that the BMW 530i performs better objectively speaking. It may "feel" like the next best thing to sex, but the TL is going to get there first- either in a straight line or a curvy road course. (see Road & Track, April 2004)
The new 3 series, being smaller, lighter should handle better than the 530. I haven't seen a comparison yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do better than the 530 and the TL. But marginally.
Actually, I watch BMW 3's and Acura TSXs race almost every weekend on TV. They are pretty evenly matched. Sometimes both are beaten by a Mazda 6.
I love BMWs. I have one. But it's just a car. And my TL is much more luxurious and comfortable over the road than my 3.
Someone mentioned before that the 3 series is a compact sport sedan. The TL is a mid-size entry-level performance/luxury sedan and it holds its own in some pretty fast (and expensive) company. Different targeted markets, for sure.
Someone asked what Acura's target was in designing the TL. The TL is a bald-faced coup against the BMW 530. You can overlap their profiles and they are almost identical in size and shape. But Acura didn't strive to equal the 5 series; they wanted to better it for less money.
Whether they did or not is a matter of opinion. I voted with my $$. I bought a TL.
Interestingly, in a related article, CR said that the TL had dethroned the 3 series as their standard against which all cars are tested for the first time in about five years. Even with a dip in overall quality, it still gets an average rating. Same as the 3 series, BTW.
And elsewhere, CR gives the BMW 7 series the honor of being a bad car to be avoided because of reliability problems.
If someone is enamored with the BMW marque, wants the panache and prestige or owning a German car with razor sharp handling and feel, and is willing to spend the extra $25,000 for a comparably sized and equipped 5 series- I say: Go for it and enjoy! If you have bought into the marketing hype, then I congratulate their advertising agency.
But don't kid yourself that the BMW 530i performs better objectively speaking. It may "feel" like the next best thing to sex, but the TL is going to get there first- either in a straight line or a curvy road course. (see Road & Track, April 2004)
The new 3 series, being smaller, lighter should handle better than the 530. I haven't seen a comparison yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do better than the 530 and the TL. But marginally.
Actually, I watch BMW 3's and Acura TSXs race almost every weekend on TV. They are pretty evenly matched. Sometimes both are beaten by a Mazda 6.
I love BMWs. I have one. But it's just a car. And my TL is much more luxurious and comfortable over the road than my 3.
Someone mentioned before that the 3 series is a compact sport sedan. The TL is a mid-size entry-level performance/luxury sedan and it holds its own in some pretty fast (and expensive) company. Different targeted markets, for sure.
Someone asked what Acura's target was in designing the TL. The TL is a bald-faced coup against the BMW 530. You can overlap their profiles and they are almost identical in size and shape. But Acura didn't strive to equal the 5 series; they wanted to better it for less money.
Whether they did or not is a matter of opinion. I voted with my $$. I bought a TL.
You can't compare TL to 5 series, your are trying to compare an entry luxury sport sedan (TL) with a true luxury sport sedan (5 series).
I have a 545i for 3 months now and as a former TL owner and lover I can tell you right here that 5 series in general and 545 in particular is superior to new Acura TL in every single respect. The ride on 5 series is 10 notches above TL. The driving dynamics of 5 series are so perfect that leave you speechless.The cabin is very quiet. There are no rattles or vibrations of any kind. The car is and feels very solid.
On the road is a presence that impose respect and turns heads.
Acura didn't strive to equal 5 series because they wanted to be better for less money? Well they failed big time! The only car that comes close to 5 series is Infiniti G35. The only advantage TL has is the interior but that's about it
Try to be objective and don't try to justify your purchase. Most people think about TL like an improved Accord and nothing else (maybe because TL still shares a lot of parts with Honda Accord?).
It's an absolutely non-sense to state that BMW 3 series and Acura TSX race almost every day and are even...TSX is a very slow whiny dog compared to 3 series...go and check the numbers and you will get it. As a matter a fact my buddy's 2006 330i MT is faster that TL MT and I saw this at drag strip, TL was 0.25 sec. slower than 330i (5.7 sec vs. 5.95 sec).
Lexus, Infiniti and Acura - it'll be a few decades before they have established the long-term traditions of performance and luxury that have made the name "BMW" synonymous with indisputable performance, luxury and quality. Absolutely they are competitive on paper as well as on pavement. But still, at the end of the day, a Lexus is a Toyota, an Infiniti a Nissan, and Acura a Honda. Meanwhile, the three letters "B-M-W" are universally known and respected everywhere in the world.