I suppose an introduction is in order...
05-16-2011, 08:42 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I suppose an introduction is in order...
So...my name is Ryan. I was a Bonneville SSEi guy. Still sort of am but the following story outlines the reasons I gave up my 2001 Bonneville SSEi pushing ~280 or so whp. I will forgo the long list of mods unless anyone is interested.
I have been looking for something to either be a weekend toy or something to replace the Bonneville as a DD.
Saturday, I went shopping.
I had my eye on a GTO with some extensive mods that my brother's buddy owned. I also was looking at an 04 6spd GTO with fairly low miles.
But the more I thought about it, the more I decided that I wanted a car that I would drive and own for the next 5+ years.
The Bonneville was looking less and less like that car. Let's face it...2 engines, 1 transmission rebuild and countless other "little things" began to take their toll on me.
I LOVED my SSEi. Honestly, I had dreamed of owning one since having a chance to flog my aunt and uncle's 93 SSEi back in 1993. And when everything was working right, well...she was an absolute kitten.
But lately, my emotional attachment had begun to fade.
I found myself more and more not looking forward to driving her. I mean not that I loathed her or anything but I felt like I needed to be careful lest more "little things" cropped up.
Saturday afternoon, I stopped by one of the local Chevy dealer's used lots. There literally was nothing on the lot that moved me in the least. I found myself picking apart everything they had and comparing them to my Bonneville and mentioning the things about the Bonneville that were better...
Their website said they had a couple of 2008 GP GXPs that they had just got in. I asked to see those and the sales manager took us back to the detail shop to take a look.
On the way there, we walked past a grey Acura TL that was sitting off in the corner of the detail shop.
I hardly gave it a second thought.
We got back to where the GP GXPs were and I looked them over...but the more I looked at them, the less they appealed to me. There was just something about the look, the fit and the finish that rubbed me the wrong way.
As we are walking back up to the front to take our leave, I kind of half heartedly began walking around the Acura TL that I had seen earlier.
Acuras of any sort weren't even on my radar.
I had no intention of looking at Acuras or Mazdas or Toyotas. I wanted American steel with some muscle and refinement or nothing at all.
But as I walked around this beautifully engineered piece of grey steel, I began to shift my thinking...I went from "My Bonneville has better X than that car..." to "I really like the way they did that compared to the Bonneville". Instead of seeing the other cars' faults when compared to the Bonneville, I began to see the Bonneville's faults compared to this TL.
I asked the sales manager for some details...1 owner, new car trade at their Cadillac lot, older couple looking for something more sedate, 31700 miles, 2007, LOADED (A TL-S without the TL-S badging is what the build sheet (yes the build sheet was in the glovebox) said) and priced at $2800 below book. LEMME SEE THE CARFAX! I said. Carfax rated this car a 98/100 while the average for this car was 81-88 for history.
So I decided, wth...let's take her for a spin.
Smooth. Everything about the car...power delivery, braking, steering, control interfaces...everything about this car SCREAMS smooth.
Not quite the feeling of kick in the pants acceleration as the SSEi BUT...you put your foot to the floor and the tach and speedo climb in nearly perfect unison and before you know it, 120 comes and goes in a flash.
The cabin envelopes you and makes you feel like an actual part of the car...and even more, I was comparing the things that this car did better than the Bonneville.
Acura wasn't even a blip in my thought processes.
But when I returend from the test drive, I began to ask the questions...how much? Who do you guys use for financing? How much down? And finally...how much would you give me for my Bonneville?
I expected them to lowball me. I expected $2200.
I handed the keys to the sales manager and warned him that the car was modified to some extent. That it's power delivery was going to be different than the Park Avenues and the Impalas he had out on his lot.
So he gingerly drove it around the lot to the exit. He eased her out into the road and he smoothly but steadily pushed his foot to the floor...the tires began chirping as the traction control began to assert itself.
He disappeared out of sight around a corner and I sat waiting sort of nervously..."what ifs" running through my head.
A short time later, he pulls back into the lot and has this ear to ear grin on his face. He asks me why I want to get rid of the Bonneville to which I reply, "I don't.. But if you say the right number you will give me for it as a trade in, then we will talk."
He stands there with his hand on his chin pondering things...he looks through my folder of reciepts and pops the hood, looking around and nodding wordlessly.
He then turns to me and says, "Well...the owner is going to kill me but I may just buy the Bonneville myself...would you take $4500 as trade towards the Acura?"
I paid $2800 for the car. I put about $3500 into it. I got hit by a HS girl and repaired most of the damage myself but still got a $2500 check from her insurance company. So essentialy, in the end, I had $3800 out of pocket in my Bonneville. Well worth it for the car...but I had also driven the snot out of it for 2 years and enjoyed it emensely. But now, someone is offering me well over book trade in...in fact, offering me $700 MORE than I paid out of pocket for it and the mods...
I said that $4500 was acceptable as long as I got to keep the amp and sub. He accepted and we went to his office.
I asked how negotiable the price was on the car and he said we could talk.
I stated that it did in fact need new tires and it could use brakes. Other than that, I said the car was pretty close to worth what they were asking. I asked if he could sell it for $1500 less than asking if he included new tires of my choice and new brakes front and rear as well as a tune up and regular maintenance service.
He hesitated...I thought maybe I went in too agressively until I saw him slowly begin to nod his head...then with a slight grin he says, "I think we can do business."
And so, without further ado and after an excruciatingly long 2.5 day wait, I finally took posession of my new (to me) 2007 Acura TL.
Old...she will be missed. And I will always fondly remember our time together...I picked a picture of her with the sky crying on her...
And now my new lady...I feel she is gonna be with me for a while...
So far I have had the windows tinted (5% rears and 15% fronts), replaced the center channel speaker with a 3.5inch MB Quart 2 way and the tweeters with a set from a set of MB Quart 6.5 inch components.
The mid bass drivers will go into the doors and I have a pair of 6.5 2 ways for the rear deck along with an MB Quart reference series sub for the rear deck. But those will be installed by a buddy's shop when they do the DYnamat as well.
I expect that I will be driving this thing for a while to come.
Anyway, that's m'story.
I have been looking for something to either be a weekend toy or something to replace the Bonneville as a DD.
Saturday, I went shopping.
I had my eye on a GTO with some extensive mods that my brother's buddy owned. I also was looking at an 04 6spd GTO with fairly low miles.
But the more I thought about it, the more I decided that I wanted a car that I would drive and own for the next 5+ years.
The Bonneville was looking less and less like that car. Let's face it...2 engines, 1 transmission rebuild and countless other "little things" began to take their toll on me.
I LOVED my SSEi. Honestly, I had dreamed of owning one since having a chance to flog my aunt and uncle's 93 SSEi back in 1993. And when everything was working right, well...she was an absolute kitten.
But lately, my emotional attachment had begun to fade.
I found myself more and more not looking forward to driving her. I mean not that I loathed her or anything but I felt like I needed to be careful lest more "little things" cropped up.
Saturday afternoon, I stopped by one of the local Chevy dealer's used lots. There literally was nothing on the lot that moved me in the least. I found myself picking apart everything they had and comparing them to my Bonneville and mentioning the things about the Bonneville that were better...
Their website said they had a couple of 2008 GP GXPs that they had just got in. I asked to see those and the sales manager took us back to the detail shop to take a look.
On the way there, we walked past a grey Acura TL that was sitting off in the corner of the detail shop.
I hardly gave it a second thought.
We got back to where the GP GXPs were and I looked them over...but the more I looked at them, the less they appealed to me. There was just something about the look, the fit and the finish that rubbed me the wrong way.
As we are walking back up to the front to take our leave, I kind of half heartedly began walking around the Acura TL that I had seen earlier.
Acuras of any sort weren't even on my radar.
I had no intention of looking at Acuras or Mazdas or Toyotas. I wanted American steel with some muscle and refinement or nothing at all.
But as I walked around this beautifully engineered piece of grey steel, I began to shift my thinking...I went from "My Bonneville has better X than that car..." to "I really like the way they did that compared to the Bonneville". Instead of seeing the other cars' faults when compared to the Bonneville, I began to see the Bonneville's faults compared to this TL.
I asked the sales manager for some details...1 owner, new car trade at their Cadillac lot, older couple looking for something more sedate, 31700 miles, 2007, LOADED (A TL-S without the TL-S badging is what the build sheet (yes the build sheet was in the glovebox) said) and priced at $2800 below book. LEMME SEE THE CARFAX! I said. Carfax rated this car a 98/100 while the average for this car was 81-88 for history.
So I decided, wth...let's take her for a spin.
Smooth. Everything about the car...power delivery, braking, steering, control interfaces...everything about this car SCREAMS smooth.
Not quite the feeling of kick in the pants acceleration as the SSEi BUT...you put your foot to the floor and the tach and speedo climb in nearly perfect unison and before you know it, 120 comes and goes in a flash.
The cabin envelopes you and makes you feel like an actual part of the car...and even more, I was comparing the things that this car did better than the Bonneville.
Acura wasn't even a blip in my thought processes.
But when I returend from the test drive, I began to ask the questions...how much? Who do you guys use for financing? How much down? And finally...how much would you give me for my Bonneville?
I expected them to lowball me. I expected $2200.
I handed the keys to the sales manager and warned him that the car was modified to some extent. That it's power delivery was going to be different than the Park Avenues and the Impalas he had out on his lot.
So he gingerly drove it around the lot to the exit. He eased her out into the road and he smoothly but steadily pushed his foot to the floor...the tires began chirping as the traction control began to assert itself.
He disappeared out of sight around a corner and I sat waiting sort of nervously..."what ifs" running through my head.
A short time later, he pulls back into the lot and has this ear to ear grin on his face. He asks me why I want to get rid of the Bonneville to which I reply, "I don't.. But if you say the right number you will give me for it as a trade in, then we will talk."
He stands there with his hand on his chin pondering things...he looks through my folder of reciepts and pops the hood, looking around and nodding wordlessly.
He then turns to me and says, "Well...the owner is going to kill me but I may just buy the Bonneville myself...would you take $4500 as trade towards the Acura?"
I paid $2800 for the car. I put about $3500 into it. I got hit by a HS girl and repaired most of the damage myself but still got a $2500 check from her insurance company. So essentialy, in the end, I had $3800 out of pocket in my Bonneville. Well worth it for the car...but I had also driven the snot out of it for 2 years and enjoyed it emensely. But now, someone is offering me well over book trade in...in fact, offering me $700 MORE than I paid out of pocket for it and the mods...
I said that $4500 was acceptable as long as I got to keep the amp and sub. He accepted and we went to his office.
I asked how negotiable the price was on the car and he said we could talk.
I stated that it did in fact need new tires and it could use brakes. Other than that, I said the car was pretty close to worth what they were asking. I asked if he could sell it for $1500 less than asking if he included new tires of my choice and new brakes front and rear as well as a tune up and regular maintenance service.
He hesitated...I thought maybe I went in too agressively until I saw him slowly begin to nod his head...then with a slight grin he says, "I think we can do business."
And so, without further ado and after an excruciatingly long 2.5 day wait, I finally took posession of my new (to me) 2007 Acura TL.
Old...she will be missed. And I will always fondly remember our time together...I picked a picture of her with the sky crying on her...
And now my new lady...I feel she is gonna be with me for a while...
So far I have had the windows tinted (5% rears and 15% fronts), replaced the center channel speaker with a 3.5inch MB Quart 2 way and the tweeters with a set from a set of MB Quart 6.5 inch components.
The mid bass drivers will go into the doors and I have a pair of 6.5 2 ways for the rear deck along with an MB Quart reference series sub for the rear deck. But those will be installed by a buddy's shop when they do the DYnamat as well.
I expect that I will be driving this thing for a while to come.
Anyway, that's m'story.
05-16-2011, 08:47 PM
#3
Team Owner
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO (Overland Park, KS)
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Very nice ZLT-welcome and enjoy your new ride!
.
.
05-16-2011, 08:55 PM
#4
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Welcome and congrats! I'm a bit confused about this part though:
"31700 miles, 2007, LOADED (A TL-S without the TL-S badging is what the build sheet (yes the build sheet was in the glovebox) said)"
I'm not sure if you know that your TL is NOT a Type-S. If you don't know already, the Type-S had a 3.5 V6 while yours has a 3.2. Also the Type-S has different headlights, tails, seats, etc etc. I'm not trying to call you stupid, but I don't want you to think that you have something you don't. You seem like a car guy so I'm sure you know what you have
Anyways, congrats on the car and I wish you the best of luck with it!
"31700 miles, 2007, LOADED (A TL-S without the TL-S badging is what the build sheet (yes the build sheet was in the glovebox) said)"
I'm not sure if you know that your TL is NOT a Type-S. If you don't know already, the Type-S had a 3.5 V6 while yours has a 3.2. Also the Type-S has different headlights, tails, seats, etc etc. I'm not trying to call you stupid, but I don't want you to think that you have something you don't. You seem like a car guy so I'm sure you know what you have
Anyways, congrats on the car and I wish you the best of luck with it!
05-16-2011, 09:46 PM
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Welcome and congrats! I'm a bit confused about this part though:
"31700 miles, 2007, LOADED (A TL-S without the TL-S badging is what the build sheet (yes the build sheet was in the glovebox) said)"
I'm not sure if you know that your TL is NOT a Type-S. If you don't know already, the Type-S had a 3.5 V6 while yours has a 3.2. Also the Type-S has different headlights, tails, seats, etc etc. I'm not trying to call you stupid, but I don't want you to think that you have something you don't. You seem like a car guy so I'm sure you know what you have
Anyways, congrats on the car and I wish you the best of luck with it!
"31700 miles, 2007, LOADED (A TL-S without the TL-S badging is what the build sheet (yes the build sheet was in the glovebox) said)"
I'm not sure if you know that your TL is NOT a Type-S. If you don't know already, the Type-S had a 3.5 V6 while yours has a 3.2. Also the Type-S has different headlights, tails, seats, etc etc. I'm not trying to call you stupid, but I don't want you to think that you have something you don't. You seem like a car guy so I'm sure you know what you have
Anyways, congrats on the car and I wish you the best of luck with it!
Trending Topics
05-16-2011, 10:17 PM
#8
Race Director
iTrader: (8)
Nice base TL =)
Long ass story but I read it haha
Btw remove the dealer sticker =P
Long ass story but I read it haha
Btw remove the dealer sticker =P
05-16-2011, 11:41 PM
#13
AWESOME....
BTW OP, you know the TL is more american then some "domestic" cars, with being assembled in Marysville, OHIO, then the engine being built in Annes, Ohio, THEN iirc the 3g TL was one of the first honda's/acura's to also be designed here in the US, in Torrence California
also that tint needs to be redone also, the mismatched front and rears
, more a fault of the previous owner then anything, not the car itself
and idk if the story is true or not as far as the exact deal, but anyways alot more pluasible due to the fact that it was in IOWA where Acura is not appreciated as much
also make sure to do the 30k service if it has not been done yet; bigger services are required every 30k on Acura
BTW OP, you know the TL is more american then some "domestic" cars, with being assembled in Marysville, OHIO, then the engine being built in Annes, Ohio, THEN iirc the 3g TL was one of the first honda's/acura's to also be designed here in the US, in Torrence California
also that tint needs to be redone also, the mismatched front and rears
, more a fault of the previous owner then anything, not the car itselfand idk if the story is true or not as far as the exact deal, but anyways alot more pluasible due to the fact that it was in IOWA where Acura is not appreciated as much
also make sure to do the 30k service if it has not been done yet; bigger services are required every 30k on Acura
Last edited by friesm2000; 05-16-2011 at 11:50 PM.
05-17-2011, 08:52 AM
#17
Senior Moderator
Congrats Check out the 3G garage for tons of info. Also register your TL at www.myacura.com in the USA or https://www.myacura.acura.ca/myAcura...ToLoginPage.do in Canada. Save your Navi and Radio codes there.
05-17-2011, 09:54 AM
#18
Instructor
Nice intro and thanks for posting pictures of the old car, i couldn't remember what one looked like, i almost started to google it until i saw you posted up a picture.
05-17-2011, 12:15 PM
#19
Awesome upgrade! I understand where you are coming from with not wanting to drive the car not because you loathed her, but because of the small stuff that comes up you only notice when you drive her. Perfect ending for you, I'm sure you'll miss your old car, but you'll love your TL so much more.
05-17-2011, 12:35 PM
#20
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Yeah...I have friends that harass me for getting a "foreign" car until I point out where it and most of its major components were designed/built.
The tint looks odd because of the lighting of the day. In sunlight, it almost looks identical. I had the tint done. It was untinted when I got it. I like the look in the sunlight but question not getting 5% all the way around when it is cloudy out.
Rest assured, the front and rear wheels/tires are all the same size...I think the slope of the roads where I parked give it a more nose heavy stance than it really has though.
Considering as of today, I have owned the car a week, I think I have made pretty good progress.
Already registered on MyAcura and the 30k service was already done.
They also threw in a brand new set of tires...Dunlops...forgot the model but they are a fairly agressive tire which suits my driving style pretty well.
The deal worked out very well. It was a trade for them and they have already sold my old car for a pretty good profit so they made out on both ends. They had the car listed below KBB retail. I don't know if it is so much that Acura isn't as appreciated as much as it is SUVs and Trucks dominate the automotive markets here. Hell, my aunt and Uncle both drive Infiniti SUVs and they have no kids/pets and both work office jobs and live in the 'burbs.
This is probably the first time in my life that I hadn't thoroughly researched a car BEFORE buying. In hindsight, maybe I should have but from what I have read so far, I made a good choice regardless.
Thanks for the welcomes (and the warnings about mods...I'll try to use self restraint
). Looking forward to more stuff I can do to make this car my own. Already working on my nav hack disc...the OK screen makes me want to punch puppies and kick kittens. LOL.
The tint looks odd because of the lighting of the day. In sunlight, it almost looks identical. I had the tint done. It was untinted when I got it. I like the look in the sunlight but question not getting 5% all the way around when it is cloudy out.
Rest assured, the front and rear wheels/tires are all the same size...I think the slope of the roads where I parked give it a more nose heavy stance than it really has though.
Considering as of today, I have owned the car a week, I think I have made pretty good progress.
Already registered on MyAcura and the 30k service was already done.
They also threw in a brand new set of tires...Dunlops...forgot the model but they are a fairly agressive tire which suits my driving style pretty well.
The deal worked out very well. It was a trade for them and they have already sold my old car for a pretty good profit so they made out on both ends. They had the car listed below KBB retail. I don't know if it is so much that Acura isn't as appreciated as much as it is SUVs and Trucks dominate the automotive markets here. Hell, my aunt and Uncle both drive Infiniti SUVs and they have no kids/pets and both work office jobs and live in the 'burbs.
This is probably the first time in my life that I hadn't thoroughly researched a car BEFORE buying. In hindsight, maybe I should have but from what I have read so far, I made a good choice regardless.
Thanks for the welcomes (and the warnings about mods...I'll try to use self restraint
). Looking forward to more stuff I can do to make this car my own. Already working on my nav hack disc...the OK screen makes me want to punch puppies and kick kittens. LOL.
Last edited by LoveMyTL-S; 05-17-2011 at 12:45 PM.
05-17-2011, 12:43 PM
#21
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Awesome upgrade! I understand where you are coming from with not wanting to drive the car not because you loathed her, but because of the small stuff that comes up you only notice when you drive her. Perfect ending for you, I'm sure you'll miss your old car, but you'll love your TL so much more.
I knew going in that the mods I made were going to kill the tranny...those 4t65ehds HATE torque.
On top of that, while the engine had been completely rebuilt as had the tranny, the chassis still had 167k miles on it. Lost a hard brake line in the mountains of CO in August, rack and ps lines in December, new pads, rotors, calipers, lines in February...just started to wear on me.
Not to mention that the heated seats stopped working mid way through the winter (easy fix but entailed taking the seats out of the car) and the moonroof sunshade started to peel...
Yeah...it was time to move on.
On the plus side, when they called me to let me know that the deal was finalized, I flogged the everliving sh1t out of the Bonneville on the way to the dealer...
05-17-2011, 01:02 PM
#23
Hello... Good AM!
No doubt, nice introduction. Welcome abord! I am a new TL owner as well and I am sure both you and I will enjoy this amazing car as everyone else is. Getting into a TL, I wasn't sure about the aftermarket support for these cars as they are more of a luxury car than sporty. (Although Acura did a nice job combining the two) From the looks of it with my research, there is more than I thought. I'm just trying not to jump on things right after the other as I will go bankrupt after getting this disease called "modicide". Good choice in the TL!
What about babies? JK
What about babies?
JK
Last edited by Steven Bell; 05-17-2011 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Merged posts.
05-17-2011, 01:53 PM
#25
I think the biggest issue I had with the SSEi was self inflicted...
I knew going in that the mods I made were going to kill the tranny...those 4t65ehds HATE torque.
On top of that, while the engine had been completely rebuilt as had the tranny, the chassis still had 167k miles on it. Lost a hard brake line in the mountains of CO in August, rack and ps lines in December, new pads, rotors, calipers, lines in February...just started to wear on me.
Not to mention that the heated seats stopped working mid way through the winter (easy fix but entailed taking the seats out of the car) and the moonroof sunshade started to peel...
Yeah...it was time to move on.
On the plus side, when they called me to let me know that the deal was finalized, I flogged the everliving sh1t out of the Bonneville on the way to the dealer...
I knew going in that the mods I made were going to kill the tranny...those 4t65ehds HATE torque.
On top of that, while the engine had been completely rebuilt as had the tranny, the chassis still had 167k miles on it. Lost a hard brake line in the mountains of CO in August, rack and ps lines in December, new pads, rotors, calipers, lines in February...just started to wear on me.
Not to mention that the heated seats stopped working mid way through the winter (easy fix but entailed taking the seats out of the car) and the moonroof sunshade started to peel...
Yeah...it was time to move on.
On the plus side, when they called me to let me know that the deal was finalized, I flogged the everliving sh1t out of the Bonneville on the way to the dealer...
where here???
just like a rental car feeling lol
05-17-2011, 03:32 PM
#26
Intermediate
Thread Starter
On the south slope after Monarch Pass. HWY 50.
I was on my way to Ducati In The Rockies 2010 (Ouray) with my trailer on the back with my bike and a friends bike. I limped it down to Gunnison where I picked up some fittings and a piece of line to fix it.
Repaired in the parking lot there.
Bad design on GM's part...the line was factory and had a piece of rubber around it as a "stopgap" fix from the factory. The rubber was worn through and it created a pinhole leak in the line.
All in all, I got lucky...a storm rolled in and things cooled off drastically so I made the descent from Monarch mostly in first and second gear and while things got warm, they weren't close to overheating like they could have easily been.
Will be making the same trip this year but this time, a buddy is trailering us to Denver and we will ride from there.
I was on my way to Ducati In The Rockies 2010 (Ouray) with my trailer on the back with my bike and a friends bike. I limped it down to Gunnison where I picked up some fittings and a piece of line to fix it.
Repaired in the parking lot there.
Bad design on GM's part...the line was factory and had a piece of rubber around it as a "stopgap" fix from the factory. The rubber was worn through and it created a pinhole leak in the line.
All in all, I got lucky...a storm rolled in and things cooled off drastically so I made the descent from Monarch mostly in first and second gear and while things got warm, they weren't close to overheating like they could have easily been.
Will be making the same trip this year but this time, a buddy is trailering us to Denver and we will ride from there.
05-17-2011, 10:34 PM
#27
On the south slope after Monarch Pass. HWY 50.
I was on my way to Ducati In The Rockies 2010 (Ouray) with my trailer on the back with my bike and a friends bike. I limped it down to Gunnison where I picked up some fittings and a piece of line to fix it.
Repaired in the parking lot there.
Bad design on GM's part...the line was factory and had a piece of rubber around it as a "stopgap" fix from the factory. The rubber was worn through and it created a pinhole leak in the line.
All in all, I got lucky...a storm rolled in and things cooled off drastically so I made the descent from Monarch mostly in first and second gear and while things got warm, they weren't close to overheating like they could have easily been.
Will be making the same trip this year but this time, a buddy is trailering us to Denver and we will ride from there.
I was on my way to Ducati In The Rockies 2010 (Ouray) with my trailer on the back with my bike and a friends bike. I limped it down to Gunnison where I picked up some fittings and a piece of line to fix it.
Repaired in the parking lot there.
Bad design on GM's part...the line was factory and had a piece of rubber around it as a "stopgap" fix from the factory. The rubber was worn through and it created a pinhole leak in the line.
All in all, I got lucky...a storm rolled in and things cooled off drastically so I made the descent from Monarch mostly in first and second gear and while things got warm, they weren't close to overheating like they could have easily been.
Will be making the same trip this year but this time, a buddy is trailering us to Denver and we will ride from there.
happens quite often especially in the mountains with afternoon showers and what not that roll in, then by sunset are gone
in north denver here, so pm me when you make the trip, and see if a mini meet or something can be done
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