quantum13

So i went to MacChurchill Acura in Fort Worth...

I wanted to go ahead and get some warranty work done on the car...

My car pulls to the right - I've already had it aligned at a shop - and it still pulls to the right. The first thing they want is 90 bucks to diagnose the problem and if there is anything else it would be on my dime. The car is still under warranty but they say that its a maintenance item - anyone can just drive and hit something and screw up their alignment. Any kind of damage to those kinds of suspension parts is my problem. I say thats bull. I think they should provide the service under the warranty - but they only do it for the first year. It is ALWAYS someone elses problem at a dealership. I hate talking to those people. On his way to check to see if they could even do the alignment, I asked him if they had the correct updated specs to align the A-Spec suspension. The guy looks at me like i'm an idiot and tells me they'll use the proper specs for the car I have. I wanted to tell him to blow me.

I also had the guy look at some minor stuff: The glovebox, when closed, doesn't line up with the rest of the dash and the gap is too large. The guy told me that if he replaced it is there is no guarantee it wouldn't go the other way or still be the same. We looked at another car that was just the opposite - it closed too far. Well that doesn't make it OK! That just makes the quality suck on BOTH cars!

Also, the passenger side dash clearly shows the score lines where the airbag pops out. It's like this darker square-looking shape in the middle of the dash that looks ridiculous. What does he say? He said to clean the dash with leather protector. How the hell is that supposed to fix that?

And finally, the score lines for the airbag on my steering wheel are starting to show as well. He told me it was the design of the wheel. I told him, BULL, we then looked at another car and those are clearly not there - he just dodges the topic and says he'll have to ask his service manager.

All these jackasses can say is 'no' or 'I don't know'. I just don't see why people at dealerships can't just CARE. Why are they always weasels?

Point is - the car has warranty - but what for? I love my car but for a car this expensive this needs to not be such a problem. That sort of crap makes me feel like I'm driving a damn Kia. I just want to bitchslap every service adviser i can get my hands on...

So anyway, i made an appt w/ them on Friday and I just don't really want to bring it to them. I got exactly what i expected when I went in there. As much effort as possible to get rid of me or to take my money.

This is why I take my car to two guys who have worked on Hondas for 25 years that operate out of a crappy garage w/ three lifts on the corner of an old highway...and why I've never bought a car new enough to be under warranty. What's the point? You'll just pay anyway!

dalieu

find a different dealer to bring it to?

EternaLlx

Another Dealer definitely

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

go to David McDavid in Plano... ask for Bob Johnson... tell him that you know Ethan (trancemission) from the Acura boards... they will take care of you... it may be more of a trek for you from denton, but they have always taken care of everyone that the board has sent there...

come join the DFW thread in meets and clubs section...

Mike_TX

Well, wait a minute.

First, the guy is right about the alignment. The warranty doesn't cover maintenance items, and alignment is maintenance just like windshield wiper blades and tires. The warranty is for defects in workmanship or materials, and unless there's some defect in your TL that causes the alignment to go wonky, it just flat isn't a warranty item.

As for the airbag lines, I see from other threads on here that all they do is to clean and treat the dash and the lines don't show anymore. Wasn't he basically just telling you that's all it needs? It's a cosmetic issue.

Now, glovebox alignment is usually a simple thing, and I guess I'm surprised he didn't just agree they'd loosen some screws and realign it. So, bad on him for that one. One out of three.

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, but car owners sometimes seem to expect the warranty - or the dealer - to fix anything that happens to their car. I mean, there are people on here bitching about getting rock chips in their paint and I guess expecting Acura to repaint their cars or something.

But the bottom line is that the warranty is for things that are defective, and it just doesn't cover stuff that happens to the car after they build it and sell it and which is beyond their control.

quantum13

You're right Mike...but I don't want to be treated like i'm an annoyance. A shift in attitude would really help. Actually caring is the #1 issue here.

Plus, it's not like expecting the steering wheel score lines not to show is just ridiculous. And if what you say is true - then they can freakin' wipe the dash down and prove it. I feel like things like that shouldn't become my problem until 50K miles. And even if I were over warranty, i expect more than an adversarial attitude from a luxury car brand.

MR1

Mike_TX is 100% correct.
Take a few hours and read your warranty book, after that search this forum. Everything that you mentioned except the alignment are known items and have been discussed in great detail here. Just trying to help minimize your disapointment some.

KatyTL

I went in for the bash airbag they said they would replace the dash but it would come right back so I said no. For the steering wheel they replaced the airbag and cover however it DOES come right back! As for the pull to the right - I have been dealing with that since the test drive of the car Aug 5th 2005! It doesn't seem to ever go away - I'm here in Houston.

Brooke

Mike_TX

Yeah, if they threw down an attitude, there's no room for that.

One reason I'm interested, BTW, is that I bought mine at Churchill, too, but haven't had much interaction with the service department yet.

quantum13

Well I'm scheduled at MacChurchill for service this friday - the thing is that I really don't feel good about going there. From the moment I walked in the door, some sales guy was trying to quiz me about what I needed to try to get rid of me - I don't really know what the hell his deal was, but it was like pulling teeth to get someone to talk to - and when I finally did I just felt like an irritant. It may be that the guy was just having a bad day and everyone was on lunch - but the experience basically met the expectation that I had of a dealership. The only other contact I've had w/ the Dealership is Carlo Guererra and I was going thru him to try to get the car I was looking for - he was pretty cool - though that fell thru and I ended up buying my TL on eBay and driving it down from MN. I'm going to try talking to that guy Bob over at David McDavid. I've been in there before to drive a new TL and RL and I really liked that Dealership. My 97 accord came from the McDavid dealer in Irving and they seem OK.

Bottom line - I want them to at least try to pretend to give a shit. And i want my car to quit pulling to the right - my freakin POS 97 Accord tracks straight and true. The damn thing has well over 210K miles on it! My concern in them not giving a shit (and using the maintenance argument) lies in the following scenario:

Them doing the alignment.
Me being out $90 (in addition to the $50 I already spent elsewhere).
Problem still not fixed.
$xxxx in repair costs...and even worse tire wear than I already have.
So, this is still my f-ing problem even though for all I know the car has ALWAYS pulled right and the alignment isn't due to 'damage' or 'misuse' of the car. Clearly, this is a common issue but those jerkoffs at the dealership never know a thing. You're always the annoying bastard in there and no one else ever bitches and that's the first time they've seen that! Know what I mean?

MR1

Yes, know what you mean. Why not find a good tire store with the correct equipment for the alignment? It might be a bad tire with a busted belt. Sometimes just cross rotating them fixes it. Again, search the forum, there is a ton of information here on the 3G TL.

Mike_TX

"Sorta" amusing story: When I test-drove my '06 TL at Mac Churchill, I noticed it pulled to the right. More like drifted to the right. So I told the salesguy I didn't feel good about a car that comes off the assembly line pulling to the right. It's Saturday, and it's the only Anthracite/Quartz/Nav they have, so the Gen. Mgr. assures me he'll get it aligned correctly Monday morning and I can pick it up then.

I say OK, and we go ahead and sign the paperwork. They give me another new TL to drive to my heart's content over the weekend. So I'm getting ready to go back in after lunch on Monday and the salesman calls me. Good news and bad news: they are "having trouble" getting the car aligned (huh?), but a truck just came in and there's another brand-new Anthracite/Quartz TL on it. He tells me they're getting it unwrapped and prepped now and I can come in an hour or so and get it.

So I go in and sure enough, it is factory fresh, with only 8 miles on the odo. I was a happy boy, and the car has been golden.

So I guess I feel like Mac Churchill did well by me. They could have foisted the other car on me and made me work out the alignment problem, but they didn't. And they had to do all the paperwork over, too.

NC Silver

Warranty is correct about adjustments only during the first year. Having it checked at another facility just fuels the fire. Did they make it worse? I'd ask the service manager to look at anything that an advisor tells you to clean. I know, I'm a service advisor.

quantum13

Thats a pretty 'amusing' story, Mike. I have no doubt that this is an issue for alot of people. The part that surprises me is that the service managers act like its your fault, blah blah, and they don't even mention that this is a common thing. Some transparency and truth-telling is in order here. I'd appreciate that alot. I'm glad you dodged that bullet though. I have a feeling that the guy who had my car before me was in the position that you WOULD have been in - likely stuck w/ a car that they were unwilling/'unable' to fix. The dude probably gave up, said screw it, and that's why he traded it in for a Dodge.

But anyway, I'm going to check a different dealership to see whats up. I wanted to talk to a Svc Mgr at the one i was at like NC Silver suggested but I didn't even bother b/c i didn't expect that guy to care so much either. I'd assume that a good svc mgr wouldn't bother with a dipshit service adviser unless he too is a dipshit! Maybe that's not the best logic but it makes sense to me...

If anyone has any suggestions as to how to talk to these people, it would be appreciated - seems like others have had more luck, KatyTL mentioned that they'd even offered to replace her dash but that it would just come back - at least that's HONEST!! Mine told me that I'm not taking care of it and that I just need to clean it. Bastard.

avs007

I"ll have to disagree. Alignment won't just go out for no reason. Assuming you didn't do something stupid like hit a curb, (which will leave other trails), one of the bolts must not have been tightened to spec, to cause the alignment to go out. A loose bolt is a defect in workmanship.

And before anyone says that machines tighten the bolts so it's impossible for it to be screwed up from the factory... Our other TL arrived from the factory with loose bolts on the steering rack. It caused a nasty and VERY loud pop when you turned the wheel while at a standstill. When the dealer looked at it, he said he was thankful we didn't get in a fiery wreck on the freeway to get there.

Mike_TX

Well, that's not what I said. I said "alignment is a maintenance item", and it is. I didn't say loose bolts or other mfg. defects are maintenance.

So if there is some other defect (loose bolt, broken part or whatever), that's different and it's a defect the warranty should cover. But NORMALLY, alignment is off because you hit a bad pothole or a curb or somthing, like you say. And fixing it is maintenance.

A_UFO

This thread may provide some insight to fixes other forum members had performed on their TL's.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137454

quantum13

It is true that alignment is maintenance but what about that bullet you dodged, Mike? That car had alignment issues they had trouble fixing. Was that maintenance or was it messed up like that from the factory? That is obviously not something I expect you to be able to answer, but see what I'm saying?

I guess that my point is that even if it was a workmanship thing or a defect you'd still get stuck paying the 90 bucks just to get them to look at it....and then even if it was their fault...would they even tell you??? Back to the honesty and transparency thing...

Mike_TX

Like you say, I have no way of knowing about the car I almost got, but at least they were straight with me about it.

The car could have been knocked out of line when loading it on the carrier, or it could have been curbed during a brief test drive or it could have just been a defective part from the factory. Guess I'll never know. But if I had accepted it that way, I do know that dealers (and/or mfr's) will handle even things like that for the first "X" no. of miles or days after purchase ... 90 days or 1,000 miles or whatever.

Now, realistically, I wouldn't expect to come back after months and months and expect them to do an alignment for free. And if they try to do the alignment and find something is defective, I do expect them to tell me and charge it to the warranty. They get paid either way, so I don't see why they'd try to jack me around.

But consider this - say they find a bent idler arm or tie rod or something. Was it that way from the factory or did you do it? Not likely it came that way, since brand-new parts aren't bent. So they pretty much have to assume you did it. If it's a stripped bolt that's making it loose, or some part assembled backwards or a bad component, that's a different matter.

All in all, it's a judgement call. I'm not here to defend dealer service departments, but they often have to make those judgement calls.

trancemission

Well said Mike. But I do think at some point the dealer should take ownership of the problem.

I deal with David MC David quite often. My car pulled to the right and I had no doubt that I had to pay for it. But it still does pull a bit and at this point I feel they should own up to it. When I bought the car it was fine, Ill admit that I should be responsible for payment that first time I bring it in. It could be something I hit or who knows what. But after their first attempt to fix it, if its still pulling I think the responsibility lies on them from that point on.

Doesnt matter anyway, Im about to install koni's and H&R's tomorrow, so Ill be back up there for a four wheel alignment.

quantum, if you do not get your issues resolved I would recommend you taking it to David Mc David.

quantum13

I think I will anyway, Ethan. I just got a bad feeling from the dude at the other place. Anyway, thanks for all the input guys. I hope that after I pay they'll help me if they're still a problem.

fast-tl

I've been known to say it before, but Goodson Acura has a stellar service dept, unlike Vandergriff where I purchased my TL. Plenty of loaners, they're courteous, and fix the problem once, virtually 100% of the time. If I didn't plan to defect to Infiniti, I'd puchase my next TL from there without fail.

fast-tl

I can fell your pain, especially since they're asking for $90 up front. I say never spend your cash in a place that treats you that way. Vote with your wallet; I did when I switched dervicing dealers adn I've been a happy camper. Goodson's body shop also repaired my car after I inflicted $5100 of front end damage, and they did well. I also took my week old Ford Expedition there after my wife inflcited $6000 worht of front end damage to it. Their body shop did a less perfect job there bit certainly decent.

quantum13

I wish going to just any dealer were so easy! I've been to Goodson and McDavid before but I live in freakin' Denton! LOL Oh well. Acura really doesn't just have just a WHOLE lot of dealerships in the DFW area. Or maybe they do - just seems like I see alot more of the others... Hell, we even have a Honda dealership in Denton!
Anyway, Plano's not too bad is it? I went to UT Dallas so I'm sure I can find something to do out there... I'll get McDavid on the phone today and see how they are. I'm thinking it may be worth it based on what I've heard.

Mike_TX

I TOTALLY agree.
.
.

trancemission

All this talk about David Mc David. I sure hope they take care of quantum.

Bob Johnson up there is probably one of the nicest guys Ive met. If he cant help you then its completely out of their hands.

I would get there early so you have your choice of loaner cars.

quantum13

Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I'm going to try to schedule service for a few days down the road so I'll give them enough lead time to have a car for me. I drove a TSX once - those are a blast. Hopefully I can grab one of those.

So, I'll suck it up and pay the 90 bucks - I will be sure to follow up here when I get it figured out. Maybe they'll help me out w/ my interior complaints under warranty too!

babi_boi_31

trust me, that happens to me exactly the same
actually...worse
but anyhow, what i did is...change a dealership
and trust me...after i did that, i feel like i'm jumping from.....toyota echoe service to mercede-benz S class service
even thought it costs me another 20 miles, but i still enjoyed the new service
they were great!!

trancemission

if you have anymore questions feel free to PM me or if you're on AIM let me know

quantum13

Thanks Ethan. By the way I did talk to Bob at the dealership and he was really cool. Guess what? He actually gives a shit. Thanks for recommending the call to him. I will bring McDavid my car on Thursday. Will update the thread on how it goes...

NGNOUS

Just an FYI, I've taken my car ('04 AT / A-Spec) to McDavid since I bought it back in July '04. Carl is my Service Rep. and takes the time to go over each issue and answers any questions that you might have. The only problem with service that I ever had was the first time I had my brake pads changed. They put the stock pads on instead of the Brembo pads that come w/ the AT A-Spec. I was the first AT A-Spec (Guinea Pig) that they had changed the brake pads on. This was quickly resolved by replacing with the correct "Brembo" pads.

quantum13

Just out of curiosity, how much did it run you to replace the pads? Was it all four wheels? Trying to get an idea of how much my maintenance is going to look down the road.

Also, how do you like the A-Spec suspension? I thought it would be too harsh but I like it quite a bit. It's still a little forgiving but so much more fun to drive...

NGNOUS

It was awhile ago that I had the pads replaced, but I'll check my invoice and let you know. As far as the suspension, I had the A-Spec installed before I purchased the car, so I don't really know the car w/o it. I do love how it rides and handles, but while I'm here in Boston, these damn potholes are killin' me. I also had McDavid install the Comptech RSB which seemed to help in the twisties while driving through the mountains.

trancemission

all you DFW guys should stop by this thread

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...00#post4999300

we get together quite often. :hyjack:

quantum13

So, 'tis time to post an update. I'd say I'm pretty darn depressed right now. Let's join Hans for storytime:

I dropped off my TL at David McDavid in Plano on Thursday and *eventually* got a loaner car. It was a brand new never-driven TSX. Had a blast driving the car...it felt solid, only one rattle that eventually quit. Gotta love the Japanese build quality. So I drove the TSX around for a day and picked up my TL today right around closing. Love the refresh on the TSX. They did a good job w/ the dash. Great little car but 29K w/ NAV is too much!

The issues and resolutions:

Problem: Alignment off.
Resolution: Alignment done.
Actual: CAR STILL FREAKING PULLS TO THE RIGHT!!!!!

Problem: Steering wheel airbag cover score lines showing.
Resolution: This is normal - all other 04's had it.
Actual: I say thats BS but they have to replace the whole airbag to fix it...so I'll let it slide.

Problem: Rattle in center stack.
Resolution: Caused by aftermarket iPod installation.
Actual: @#($&@#* #@$*. They won't touch it b/c I touched it even though it rattled before. Ended up convincing them to give me some foam so i can fix it myself.

Problem: Crappy HFL performance in voice recognition.
Resolution: Replaced HFL module.
Actual: It ACTUALLY works. I had to show them the posts on here about that particular problem to convince them. They'd never heard of an 'upgrade' for the '04 TLs but sure enough the HFL system recognizes my numbers now - even over the roar of the A/C.

Problem: Crappy dash. Airbag deployment pattern showing thru pass. dash
Resolution: Normal. At least they used their Acura magic on it so it's not chalky anymore.
Actual: It's amazing the kind of quality control they have going - as long as ALL the cars suck, its acceptable. Whatever...this is the least of my worries.

So, basically, I went in w/ all these issues. Came back with a new HFL module and the car still pulls. I want to bitchslap the idiot that test drove my car and decided it was acceptable. It would seem my car is afflicted w/ the mystery pull. It's supposed to be aligned and it still pulls...why can't they figure out that part w/o me having to pick up the car and TELL them? So now what am I going to do? How am I going to get the pull fixed? I can't drive this car for 5 years and have it do that? It will drive me nuts. I'm going to have sell it if they don't fix it!

I want to keep the TSX loaner i drove. It was a joy to drive - tracked straight....mucho fun around the twisties. I think I'll get my fiance one of these eventually....or maybe i'll trade in the TL for some good build quality. I'm really disappointed in my car right now...

Interesting side note: When I picked up the car, Bob Johnson told me that he was a little hurt by a comment (something about the a-holes at Acura) that someone made on the thread about getting the HFL replaced in the '04s. I had printed it off for him to show that others had it replaced and that it worked out for them (this was in an attempt to get it replaced, which worked). The guy is a genuinely good guy and he was really bothered by that comment. I basically had to explain to him that the guys back there working on the cars...well,they generally just don't care about it as much as they would if it were there own cars...and when people like me come in there trying to get something handled and we just end up getting our time wasted....well, basically when I talk to him on Monday I think I'll remind him of that comment, refer him to the fact that my car still pulls and my center stack still rattles and then ask him again if he thinks its unusual that someone might call a guy in the service department an asshole.....

KJSmitty

This may have already been covered in another thread but have you ever played around with tire rotation?? Not just front to back but right front to left rear, or just swapping left front for right front etc.? I have had 3 different tires in my life require replacement due to causing excessive pull when placed on the front(rolling in a certain direction)..


If you haven't yet, try performing a front, left for right swap on the tires.. See if that effects it at all. Most likely the alignment/adjustments on the front end are within specs yet tires are causing your issue.

Like I said, you may have already ruled this out. Bottom line, if still pulling I would find an independent alignment shop that is willing to listen to you and manipulate the specs to make it track straight. Go with them on every test drive...

Good luck.

PS - My 04 has absolutely no airbag lines in the dash or steering wheel.... I could live with lines in the wheel but the dash would upset me as well..

quantum13

Thanks for the tip Smitty...they supposedly already checked that out.

I showed up early at the dealership this morning - first guy there told me it was normal right off the bat- i got really pissed really fast but this other guy Brian overheard and sorta took over. They told me that the cars have built in pull to the right and that they are designed that way - blah, blah...safety feature....I don't want anything to do w/ a car like that. The TSX loaner I have now pulls LEFT - which i'm sure is alignment problem - the loaner yesterday was perfect. So I asked if that one was unsafe b/c it didn't pull...Anyway, I have a loaner again and they're working on it. He said that they'd take care of it and maybe adjust the sub-frame to fix it. I sure hope so... will post more later...

quantum13

Oh yeah - the acura rep was there on Thursday and he said that the airbag lines in steering wheel and unevenness in the dash was normal b/c they all did it. By that logic if I pulled a rim off of all the cars in the lot, they'd all be like that too and it wouldn't be a problem. Oh well - they have t replace the whole airbag to change the cover out so i guess i'll let that slide - and i sure as hell don't want to have them replace the dash and have even more rattles. They cleaned up the dash just fine and I can deal w/ it.

Will Y.

This is the kind of BS that aggravates me.
My TL tracks straight, so it's obviously defective. And the dealership didn't bother to tell me about this safety feature that I'm missing. Maybe those of us with cars that don't pull need to sue Acura and a few dealerships so we get cars that drift to the right properly...

But seriously, if built-in drift is a "safety feature," I would call the sales manager in to hear the service guy, then let everyone know I'm going back into the showroom to let everyone know about this wonderful "safety feature" if they don't fix it...

I've never owned any street-legal car that pulled to one side or the other EXCEPT when something was wrong-- tire or alignment.

quantum13

Yeah thats what I told the first guy too - as soon as I pulled up he started telling me it was normal and that I had to deal with it...at which point I asked him if the TSX and my '97 accord that both track straight as an arrow are UNSAFE cars. Anyway, I basically flat out told him I wasn't leaving and that he was going to have to deal with me. It's that BS that these service advisors spout off that just really pisses me off. I got really stressed out - he wouldn't look at any of the stuff I printed off the forum and that he's seen it all before. Now this guy was just totally not listening to me. However - Brian Day (who is a forum member) noticed something was up. I have to say, David McDavid does have some good service advisors working for them. Brian immediately went to bat for me and figured out the problem. Unfortunately, Bob, who worked with me on Thursday and Friday isn't there on Saturdays...I'm sure that he would have helped me out as well but since he wasn't there I sorta was flying blind. I would have told Bob when I picked the car up but they were already closed when I discovered what was up.