uasound

I was inspired by the tire roation thread today so I decided to share my experience of buying new 08 TL.

Before the big purchase I did my research on prices and also checked my credit score. I knew my score was always good but wanted to make sure I wouldn't have any problems at the dealership.

Negotiations went pretty good, I got the price I was looking for. Everyone's happy, right? Wrong!

I signed all the documents for financing, sales guy parks my new black TL in the front, gives me the keys, and lets me drive until they check financing. Obviously nothing would stop me from buying the car after that ride!

So I come back and see the sales guy looking so sad. I asked him, is everything alright? He looks at me and says that I didn't get approved for credit! So I ask him why and he says that my credit score is too low!

That's where I started to have fun

I asked him twice if he's sure and if I can see the print out with my score. After he confirmed twice I took out a print out from my bag with credit score printed day before with 60 points more than dealership! You should have seen his face, it got red, blue, green, and then red again!

Originally dealership offered me 7.9% because of my score. After I showed my report to the sales guy he offered me 5.9%. When I asked for the manager I've got 2.9%.

I was never so happy after leaving the dealership!

alphason'sac

Now that is a damn shame.


Glad you got what you wanted though! And car salesmen wonder why people come into the dealership ready to battle. Good job sir!

01tl4tl

Know what you are willing to spend and always try your own bank first- better deals to be had with in hand finance- even if you dont tell THEM you have own funding,
talk down the price with them thinking they will make it up on the interest loan

then say o thats cahiers check thanks!!

lights

iTrader: (1)

2.9% is pretty standard for all acura TL now...
7.9% was just a rip off.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

good job @ the dealer!! which dealer was it?

uasound

It was

Mullers Woodfield Acura
1099 West Higgins Road
Hoffman Estates, IL 60195

http://www.mullerswoodfieldacura.com/en_US/

Bearcat94

Good on you. Preparation is the buyer's best defense when purchasing a car.

uasound

I'm curious if that could be a legal case? Am I obligated by law to get the copy of credit report?

Thanks!

fsttyms1

timmahh

Not sure if that was a scam.. unless the dealer financed your car loan.

Honda/Acura does not run to equifax and grab a score; my score was off by 8 points, but they run their own calculations and determine a score for you. It's not a certified FICO score, like most banks, they'll say "that's neat, we don't use that"

I got 4.9% for my car; I was a few points below the preferred minimum score but the finance department pushed it anyways.

Anywho doesn't seem like a scam; just my two cents.

tl_dinhsum84

NOT A SCAM I USED TO SELL CARS ITS JUST THE WAY THE GAME GOES ! ! ! IF HE WAS GOOD HE WOULD PUT THE DEAL TOGETHER HOW THEY WOULD WANT IT TRust. . .

tl_dinhsum84

P.S sales people arent legal to give you to give you or show you your own score sales people arent license for that but however the FINANCE MGR MAY TELL YOU and there is more then one manager on the SALES SIDE thier is a SALES MGR - which manages the sales team GENERAL SALES MGR - which manages the SALES MGR and THE SALES TEAMS and the FINANCE MANAGER which deals with banks and gives you your rates but it will take awhile for them to get you a good rate if the banks approve and the GM - which manages the whole store. Sales people arent even suppose to give you your rate period they But remember everyone gets a piece of your money when you make a purchase of your car GM,GSM,SM,SALES PERSON and your FINANCE MGR will make money off you off RATES and what ever you may purchase in his office at the point of sale with the contract!! that is why everyone is so happy in there haha ive done this for 4 years and now i have my own buisness finally but always be prepared because they are trust!! so do your research and go in their and put your poker face on

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I hope there are other Acura dealers in your area. I would not want to use their service dept after an experience like that.....

I probably would have walked away anyway. If they want to play games like that, I don't need to do business with them.

Bearcat94

I'm not sure if you've heard, but a few years ago they invented "Paragraphs" and "Sentences" so people could read what you write.

They also have "Punctuation", but I don't wanna drop too much stuff on you at once.

timmahh

anywho, unless the dealer is actually funding the loan they could give a shit less what rate you get.. the bank or entity financing your loan is the place that gets your money.

uasound

Good point however the score they pulled was 60 point lower than TransUnion gave me online before. The manager told me they used TransUnion as well.

I really doubt that same credit bureau would have such a huge point difference.

uasound

Did you drink something?

Boever

Yes they can give a shit. Dealership finance departments get paid a "commission" by banks to steer people to them. Obviously they are going to steer people to whomever pays them the largest commission. They also bump up the rates on loans to make extra money. Other than the owner who do you think makes the most money at a dealership............the finance guy!

mickey3c

I know that when you run a credit check it can impact the score. But not 60 points! The dealer wants you to get the higher interest rate since well they all share the wealth there. As for being able to drop 5 points off after asking for the manager... well... I have to agree on the scam...

timmahh

The finance person makes the money at the close of the deal, because most people buy $500 window tint, $1800 warranty, $900 alarm, etc.

The rate of your loan does not go to the finance office at all. The bank is the one making the money off your loan.

I don't know what dealer you use.. but out here a lot of places use CUDL - Credit Union Direct Lending; your application is sent to various credit unions and a response is received within a few minutes; they'll either approve, deny, or recommend your application to another bank.

I've never heard of the bank paying the dealership comission..

timmahh

Unless the dealer is personally funding your loan they will not be making money off the interest.

geekybiker

Heh. That's where I got mine. They gave me a good price with no hassle, but when it came time to pay, they didn't want to take my e-loan powercheck that I had all ready to go. Something about a draft check they said. However they did offer me a fairly competitive rate on the loan, so I just took it. Wasn't worth the hassle.

jay0k

You do realize that your credit score might be calculated differently for an automobile, credit card, or mortgage?

There are also three credit bureaus and your score can range by 60 points between them.

I can't imagine the dealer making up a credit score for you. Of course I can see them trying to screw you on financing though saying that only their 780+ scores get low rates when in fact it might be 720+. They should have a book or printout that list credit score ranges with interest rate percentage.

A typically get financing through my credit union before buying a car unless the interest rate is substantially lower through the dealer.

Bearcat94

I am not sure that I *totally* agree. When the bank is American Honda Finance Copr, Honda/Acura make the money.

When Honda/Acura make the money, I'd bet the dealership see's some of it.

I'd also guess that most "regular" people don't get their financing pre-arranged, they go with the in-house financing msot of the time.

timmahh

Honda and Acura NA might kick back some money based on monthly new auto loans, but I doubt my local credit unit is going to give the dealer money for selling a car.

If the dealer has in-house financing then the finance company makes money; if it's owned by the same person that owns the dealership then the owner of the dealer is making money. The money wouldn't go directly into the dealers pockets.

I went with in house financing because 4.9 is a great rate for me.. my bank had 5.6 at the time but I doubt they would have given it to me.

As jay0k said, there are three different credit agencies out there, if you tank on your house payment your bank might report to Transunion, but never to Equifax, so there will be a substantial difference in the credit rating.

That's why you're supposed to check them all, but like Bank Of America, Honda Finance, Wells Fargo, American Express, etc. - I say "this is my fico score" and they say "that's neat, we do our own calculations"

People also need to remember that a dealership and Honda Corporate / Acura Corporate are not one in the same.. As said above, when Honda funds your loan, Honda makes money - correct, Honda does. Honda does not own the dealership you bought the car from; Honda Corporate makes the money off the interest.

Your check is written out to American Honda Finance, not to Honda of Whatevercity..

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I tend to analogize the dealer to being a mortgage broker when dealing w/ AHFC for example. The dealer contacts them and AHFC gives the dealer a % of the rate. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong- and no Timmah, I'm not expecting a response from you because I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning. Maybe someone on the inside can shed some light?

Sometimes a car deal goes up in smoke when your getting an ultra low price on the car but get raped by the finance company.

timmahh

nevermind.

Boever

If you don't think the dealership (namely the finance manager) is making any money off of getting you a loan, I would suggest you do a little research.

The finance manger is not necessarily looking for the best loan for you, but what loan (i.e. credit union/bank) will make him the most money on commission. That is why you should know your credit score and possibly pre-arrange financing before heading to the dealership.

chill_dog

The finance manager at a car dealer does indeed make a commission on the loans he/she writes...just as any other loan officer (bank, mortgage company, etc.) does. Why do you think they want you to use their loan source versus yours if you come in with your own financing? Even if the rate's the same to you, they make money writing the loan, which is why they usually offer up something to entice you to take their loan over the one you already have.

black label

I hate to say it Timmahh, but your wrong on the finance part. The dealership gets the loan at "buy rate" essentially the price they pay for the loan, the make money by bumping the rate, in MA I believe they can not bump it more than 2 points. So if the dealers "buy rate" is 6.49% they could bump it to 8.49% if you let them get away with it.

This is why the dealerships like people who's credit is not so good. They can make the most money on the financing with them as they are typically very happy to be approved in the first place.

In regards to credit score There are many credit bureaus out there and yur scor can vary between them by 50-60 points. American Honda Financial is only concerned with your "Trans Union Auto" score, thats all that matters, if it is 710 or better, you get top teir credit. Occcasionally if you are close to that, say a 690, a good finance manager can get you bumped to top teir credit, but there's no promises.

black label

A draft check is basically a promisary note, there is no bank you can cash it at. It can take months for the dealership to receive payment on one of these.

timmahh

I'm wrong, you're right.

2000 TL

I bought mine there and have had good experiences with their service department. They usually give a 10% discount. Tip: Call around to other dealers services and ask them how much they are charging for whatever service you are having done. Get the lowest price and ask your local dealer to match.

The sales guy was great when I bought my 2000 TL. The finance guy was not too sharp. He tried to sell me a $2500 extended warranty. When I told him I was financing through my credit union, he looked sad then pissed. Good news is he got me out of there in record time!

Just in case, I don't work for them or get any kick backs. Just sharing info.

MR1

For people that aren't aware of interest rates, the dealer sell monthly payments. Lots of dealers start the conversation with "How much can you afford monthly" or "what kind of payment are you looking for"?

Of course the finance person gets a commission or a kickback, that's why they save them for last, after you are already sold and see yourself in your new ride.

aw1

This happened to me when I went to buy my 2000 Accord V6 cpe. Neg on the car then went to speak to the finance guy. They ran my credit report and came back with 15.9%. My facial expression.. then

He (finance dude) then said if I buy an alarm, lojack, ext. warrty, etc. from the dealer, they can lower it to 5.9%.. My expression again was then

Told him I have to think about it then started walking out. While walking out, he goes "you will not find a lower rate anywhere else. even at your bank."

The next day during lunch, I walked into my bank and they gave me 5.9% without a problem. They ran a credit check on me and came back with a score above 700.

Later that night, I walked back into the Honda dealership and sat with the finance guy and sales person. He asked if I was taking their offer. Right about then, I slapped the check I got from my bank in front of him. He asked what they gave me, I told him 5.9%. He thought I was lying and tried to neg. with me with buying all the above mention items, then they can give me 5.9% as well. Told him why should I spend about 2-4k to get 5.9% finance rate from you while I got one already without putting out another penny?

tl_dinhsum84

yes mr1 a new ride is right!!

conan777

I agree! thats BS!!

Oh and my sales person told me my credit score recently when I bought my wife a new car Car Salesmen are for the most part liars, cheaters and scum with no morals or Integrity. Some are not that way but most are. I have not had those types of experiences since I started buying my cars from the internet sales managers. They know you are not some ignorant puppy dog walking through the door looking to get slaughtered by the wolves. Anyway good for you for being prepared. That would have been a deal breaker for me! Integrity is everything in my opinion!

I helped a friend who bought a new Minivan from Rosenthal Nissan Mazda in Tysons corner VA awhile back. He traded in his old car and financed the rest with the dealership. He got a call a week later saying that his financing did not go through because he did not qualify for the lower rate and he needed to give them a check for an additional $2,500 + Can you say SCAM!!! Thats why that dealership is known as "Rosenthief" arghhh....Scum! Oh and they already sold his trade! The sales manager was a total jerk until I spoke a language that he could understand and then the problem miraculously corrected itself. They know your credit score in 5 minutes.

steve9207

I almost went there when I bought my 07 TL, 5 weeks ago. Instead I checked out McGrath of Westmont b/c they're right down the street and Continental in Naperville b/c the internet guy was really helpful. Well, after talking and visiting with both, I went with McGrath as they did the best price. They gave me $500 under invoice...paid in cash (which they didn't know up front, because I was initially thinking of financing with them). Continental would do $500 over on an '08...but since I'm gonna keep the car for at least 5 years most likely, 07 vs 08 wasn't a selling point for me....$1000 difference was, haha.

Glad to see you were able to get them to work with you. McGrath told me the Ext. Warranty was either "today or never". I told them, that's fine I'll buy it from another dealership and come here for service anyway. So, my sales guy said, "let me know once you shop around what price you find and I'll see what we can do". Haha. I never got the Ext. Warranty, but I wasn't pleased about that.

steve9207

The same exact thing happened to my friend. They said that once the loan went to the bank, they denied it and it went up from 7.9% to 14.9% (almost DOUBLE)!! His contract said if such a thing happens he has the right to his old car back and to return the new one. So, he opted for that. They replied, "we already sold your old car, we can give you $1000" (which was WAY below KBB). So, he said no, that's against the contract. They said they would see him in court. In the end his father co-signed to get the rate down. But seriously, what bullshit, ya know?

Ganplosive

you know after reading your thread...

I went into the dealership roughly 6 weeks ago to buy my NHB Type-S. After 3 hours of
negotiating I was told that I'm able to obtain a 9.9% APR (I'm a 20 yr old college student
with shitloads of student loans and fairly good [but VERY LIGHT] credit). I have the money
to pay the car off, but I decided to finance to car to buffen my credit (possibly pay it off after
a year or so to cut my loses ). Long story short, I pretty much made it clear that anything above 9.9% APR I would walk and buy it cash somewhere cheaper, they said ok but that they need to get finances to go through and it was already saturday night 7:00 PM. I went ahead and signed all the paper work, did all the signatures and "purchased the vehicle" with money down (which I've paid on the spot). They gave me the keys and told me to drive it around to the back where they'll park it and store it for me. Go in Monday and pick the car up. Done Deal.

I show up on Monday and all of a sudden they wanted to check my pay stubs (which I brought in). He walks away and comes back with a NEW finance application form saying "We need to dispose of the old ones and have you sign a completely new application". He then tells me that I can have 10.99% APR finance, and my monthly payment would go up by about $40 dollars a month. I was furious, I began demanding to know why I wasted 3 hours sitting down and negotiating with them only to have them "promise" me something that they couldn't give me (they said no financial institute would finance me at 9.9%, understandable but that's why I decided to buy from them in the first place..)

I told them ok, you want to change the terms of the contract that I've signed for? Sure, completely void the previous contract I have signed with the dealership and I'll take my business elsewhere. My dealer told me I can't do that, I've already "drove the car off the lot " (around to the back) and I'm legally obligated to stay committed. I said sure ok, I have a copy of the contract that I have signed, and you have a copy. If you try and change the terms of the conditions then we'll see how it works out, expect a call from my family lawyer. He ran into the managers office and came back with the manager. The manager sat down and started asking me "WHY" I sounded upset and angry at the dealership. I told them I came in Monday excited as hell to pick up a new car but instead I'm faced with a feeling like I'm being scammed.

Long story short he made me feel as though I was to blame for thinking that I obtained the 9.9% APR without providing any kind of proof. ???>=( and that the dealership did me a great service offering me that rate. Apparently the manager said he "made a couple calls" and "the bank" was willing to do it for me 9.9%, and that I should be grateful... -___-. He left and the dealer basically sat down with me and say well look, you can drive the car off the lot and let's just finish this deal or you can keep it here and wait (I don't know for what). I went ahead and did the transfer with the most awkward feeling between me and the dealer.