RUF87

I was feeling a bit down, so nothing like a little fun embarrassing a Hemi Challenger RT. Haven't done that recently, but it's nice to know you don't have to take that Hemi in your face attitude some of those guys give you.

Ruf

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Mopar sucks.

BEAR-AvHistory

Hemi’s don't have anything special going for them other then a stick-on label & a lot of consumer ignorance.

Hemi is just a trade mark now since Chrysler has not had a true Hemi-head since about 2002. Most modern heads are active combustion types that have a kidney bean shape.

Even back in the day, a number of performance cars had hemi heads but in the US Chrysler owned the trademark for advertising purposes, they did not have a patent on the design which was used in cars back in 1901.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the TL has a hemispherical head.

RUF87

Yep, they are over rated.

FastLS6speed

Id sure take that 392 any day! Pure sex for a 4000+hp boat!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I'd rock the 392 as well.

RUF87

I'm hoping to do one more track day before the end of the year. I'll let you know in case you can make it. It was okay the last time, and even with a few problems I still managed consistent 14.2s, so better times should be possible.

Ruf

SrA.Espi18

are we talking about SRT type hemi? or is it all the same? i raced a 300c STR8 like 3 months back on my way to tampa, he never got ahead of it and by 6th gear i had about a car distance to him.. i thought it was luck.. ??? input??

FastLS6speed

Its the new 392ci 6.4L hemi V8 in the 2011+ srt8's that are detuned to 470hp from 525hp... they are mid to low 12 second cars with some seat time...

SrA.Espi18

i think i ran against a 06 - 07... i really dont know about american muscle such as a "392" HEMI but i do know 6.4L really sucks on gas learned from my 6.0L chevy 2500HD

Dave_B

Dollar for dollar, mod for mod, I'm putting my money on the Hemi 5.7 or greater. Sorry. They're no my cup of tea, but a properly driven RWD bonestock Charger R/T should go 13.8s@100mph. A friend's bonestock SRT8 300C saw 12.9s and 12.0s with bolt-ons, torque converter, and slicks.

Sonnick

Well, considering I saw a 300C SRT8 at the track that was trapping slower than me, I think it'd be possible to an extent. It ran consistent 13.8-13.9 but @ only 99mph. And it had an exhaust. I always thought they were 13.2-13.4 cars @106-107.

RUF87

13.8s definately makes it a driver's race for many of us. Even high 12s is still a drivers race. The last time at the track a modded 2010 Mustang GT that ran 12.6 didn't catch me until about 80mph. So in a street race I would have beat him more often than not as most races never get above 80mph.

Ruf

Dave_B

Either it was fake or the guy didn't have a clue. You should be able to get 105mph traps in the car by simply launching off idle and baby-stepping it off the line.

Dave_B

Very true, but you're beating the driver, not the car or the driver was toying with you, or he working on his launch and left after you. A properly driven modded 2010 MGT is going leave a TL at the line badly if both cars leave on the green.

Years ago I lined up against a well known local automatic Supra. I launched on the green and he sat there building boost. About 3 seconds after I left, he started. At the 1000' he fly by me like I was going 60mph. I finished with a lower 14@99mph. He finished with a low 10 at 140mph. I beat him to the 1/8, but he had something to say about that

AtlM5

^exactly...when i hear race stories i dont wanna hear about who won or how you beat the driver...i wanna hear how far you were from each other and who was gaining etc.

RUF87

The driver is a key part of street or strip racing. And I always like the excuse of "properly modded or driven". A properly modded and driven TL will beat a MGT. So anyone can play games with this or that. On the street it comes down to the one who executes with the tools they have. Doesn't matter that he had more HP or his car is technically faster. I so tired of these worthless excuses because in the end the winner is the one that crossed the finish line first. That's what competition is all about.

Anyway, that makes the 4th Hemi that failed to beat me.

Ruf

RUF87

Ah, then don't read and comment on these posts. Not everyone races to top speed to see who pulls who by this and how gains when and where. Racing of any sort is a combination of getting from point A to Point B the quickest or first. I don't care if someone is gaining on me . . if I cross Point B first they lose . . it's not that hard to understand.

I still have fond memories of beating this guy and his super charged G35C at the track. Doesn't matter that he was gaining on me. He still lost the race.

Ruf

FastLS6speed

I'm having electrical issues so I won't be running any time soon...

RUF87

I hear you. I'm still dealing with intake problems and if I don't get the time to fix it I probably won't run either. Especially if I want to keep my streak of improving my times everytime I went.

Ruf

AtlM5

then nobody cares about this thread...noone wants to hear about you beating some random guy in a race we want to compare our cars to others to see how they stack up. thats the only reason i race anyone..not for your silly pride..that is the only reason to street race like this

RUF87

So why are you back here reading and posting. Nobody wants to hear from haters and narcissists like you who want to control what they think is right. I've been drag racing longer than you are old, so don't spill your BS about what racing is and isn't. The last time I checked, a race on a full controlled drag strip is the only fully legit race. Street racing offers no fixed controls, so your so called version of your street race is a joke. Since you don't get it and just like to be an @ss about I'll just block you from my views so I don't have to read your drevil.

Monte TLS,MAX

+1

Monte TLS,MAX

Agreed to all!

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^^^^^^

Agree, if its not a lose & your out elimination its not a race. On a tune & test night I totally ignore what's in the other lane regardless if it’s a faster or slower car.

You never know what the other lane is trying to do. I tripped a lot of red lights developing light gamming techniques & a lot of slow launch's finding out where the tires or suspension would quit & what was a good gear/RPM to launch with.

If someone specifically said they wanted to run in the staging lanes I would give it my best shot, again regardless what the other guy had.

I learned back in the 1960’s there is always somebody who is a better driver or with a better car to get all whacked out over getting beat.

I also learned more importantly, not to BS myself with how good or quick I was.

RUF87

All good points, and nothing personal, but don't assume that most every race is just test and tune. I've only run a few times on a test and tune night. I believe way to many racers are putting in the best efforts. If you don't race a lot of your test and tune runs like you're trying to win you'll never be ready when it counts. It's more like . . . you practice like you play, so most of us are trying to cut the best light, best launch and best shifts, etc. Again, granted that at times we are just trying to debug our cars, but even on race day they are never perfect.

Spinning is winning and so is a bad launch. I know that as much as anyone as I lost out to a VW in my 11 sec 64 Malibu SS because I panicked when he jumped off the line and I got in to the throttle too quick. Just couldn't catch him by the finish. But wait, if I use some of the arguments by a couple of the guys here it really wasn't a race as my car really was faster than his.

So much for senseless points. This is an open racing and competition forum for all to post their experiences. It doesn't have a specific set of rules for what constitutes a race on one or another's opinion. I don't care what this or that magazine says this car will do, or what someone else's car did. It only matters what happens when 2 cars get together and what the result was. Whether it was for a standing start, 10,20 or more roll, or to what distance or to what speed as street race is. When 2 get after it, it's all between those 2. In this case the guy in the Hemi picked the fight and lost. The victory is never certain regardless of the size of the dog in the fight. If I was to line up against a top fuel dragster and they experienced a catastrophic failure and doesn’t cross the finish line, I win. Doesn’t matter that he can run sub 5 sec ¼ mile times and I run low 14s to high 13s . . I still won. If you don’t believe me just watch competitive drag racing and watch how slower cars end up in the victory circle. If the only thing that meant anything was someone’s time slip, why have head to head racing? Shoot we could make a pass and just compare time slips every time we meet someone on the street or track. Wouldn’t be much fun now would it.

So technically the guy’s Hemi should beat me, but he didn’t that’s all that matters. He wanted to show me up and I ended showing him up. That’s the result, that’s what many folks here do care about . . that our cars properly driven can beat a quicker car. That’s the challenge and it isn’t much different than why we build race cars and head to the track to beat someone there. I don’t know many who build a race car and just run and see what it does. I see guys lining up to beat others.

Anyway, ‘nuff of all this sour grapes from a few who can’t stand it when someone posts a kill against a car that should technically be faster. We’ll keep posting and those who don’t like can keep their whining comments to themselves. And if not, I’ll just add them to my ignore list as I don’t care what THEIR opinion, note the word is OPINION and not facts just because they want their own set of rules.

By the way, I've beaten a 550i 5 times, with speeds exceeding 110mph, won all 5 times. Maybe people think the guy in the 550i did this 5 times just to make me feel good. Nah, the guy even commented that he was shocked. Oh well, must have been bad gas. And the guy in the supercharged G35C even had his friend drive because he was the better driver. The other guy was bad, but his friend still messed up on the launch and I won.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I love how these threads all turn into theoretical races where people flex their car knowledge and track mumbo jumbo to shut each other up.

I love my car for me...not cause it's faster or slower than anyone else's.

The camaro, to me, already looks like an aged design. It's nice, but I don't really look twice unless it's set up right.

SRT Challenger, to me, best looking, but gas guzzler tax and supposedly very heavy with a bad blind spot.

5.0 would still get my vote, but meh...the look of it doesn't look much different than the one they released in 05. Plus, I'd be worried about the tranny problems. I still remember seeing that revolution racing youtube...tune, slicks and some bolt ons and they actually ran sub 11's.



None of them would inspire me to pay over 33K.

oh...and, nothing personal...just my opinion.

Rick_TL-S

Mark, ignore these benchmark, magazine time racers. You could be doing rolls from 80-150mph & this Infiniti nut swinger will just talk about how you should be getting beat in the 1/4 mile over & over; totally different ball game.

I know you've told me in the past about your experience on the strip & the car you used to run, so I have no doubt in my mind about your driver skill & what you can do if Dave wants to continuously play the "Properly driven" card all day.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

^^^
concurrence...

Dave_B

I took Ruf's first post as "hey, all of us TL owners have nothing to sweat against RT's, I beat them all the time". Nowhere did he say, that he knew that it's typically a quicker AND faster car and he simply beat the driver. Every R/T I've come up against at the strip has beaten me, some by a large margin. RUF's TL has only gone 97mph in the 1/4. Every stock or lightly modded R/T I've come up against has done at least 101mph.

I've probably got more experience drag at the strip than 99.9% of the TL owners on this site. I've got hundred of passes under my belt and in about 5 different cars ranging from 12s to 14s. I've beaten quicker cars at the strip more times than I ever could remember, but I'll never fool myself into believing my car is actually the quicker one. Hell, I've beaten a rookie driving a 2nd gen Viper to the finish. I simply beat the driver or some other factor that held the car back. It's always fun to beat the quicker car, but it's kind like beating a one legged guy in a 100m sprint.

BEAR-AvHistory

Just a simple difference of opinion.

For what its worth or not worth as the case maybe, I made my first pass ever at E-town on opening day in 1960. That is most likely the year RUF87 was born. By 1962 I was driving a 409/409 bubble top sponsored by a dealer now called Chevrolet of Jersey City. In 1963 a move up to a Catalina 421 Super Duty which was cut short by the draft board. The Army trained me as a Tracked Vehicle recovery mechanic in 1964 which is the only formal mechanical training I have had.

In 1969 moved to Freehold Twps. which is just down Rt-9 from English town & from 1970 opening day till the end of season in 1985 drove a Burgundy 4 speed 1967 Corvette Coup. Since then have been to the track occasionally a few times with a Jaguar 4.0 V8 when I lived in England & a number of times down here is NC.

Now to what I think of the various claims. TL vs. Hemi. Yes I believe it can be done but its not easy. Had only one run against a Hemi – same car the cops use - with my 2006 TL 6MT. Got a hole shot & put my front wheel on his front door & held it to front wheel on front bumper, to be fair if it had gone over 100mph the hemi would have out horsepowered me & pulled away.

Do I think a 14 second car & a 12 second car is a drivers race, no way. To me a drivers race are two cars maybe .5 seconds apart. When my 335is was still stock & putting out 312whp I had a run against a TL-S, think it was an auto.

He gave a quick chirp off the line & I just paced him because I was still learning the car which can fry its tires in a heart beat. About 1-2 seconds in got the throttle full down & was already opening a significant gap by 45mph.

Now I don’t know what my car will do at the track, but similar pure stock cars YouTube at 13.1/13.6 109/106. My car now has 365whp, on the traffic light circuit it’s a drivers race with the new Camaro SS (me having the advantage against MT’s).

I have no doubt I could spot a TLS a few car lengths & still clean its clock by 60 or so MPH. Its not a drivers race IMHO because you can screw up give the TLS a pretty good lead & still drive around it. A drivers race might be a new Camaro V6 that runs low 14’s 98/99mph against a TLS.

The youtube vid is typical of a pure stock 335is on run flats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjQ3qCV3rE

If anyone believes a some what quicker car vs. a TLS is a drivers race I live in Raleigh & would be more then happy to have a TLS to run.

Rick_TL-S

Yes, at the strip.
You've been told more than several times though, that street encounters can easily lead to different outcomes, but you still revert to drag racing & what cars should do with a driver mod.

And since this is all you offer up in this section about what cars should do with a proper driver in the QTR mile against each other, then honestly, why do people even go to a fucking drag strip, then? They should just let you sit out there, benchmark everyone's power figures & give the trophy to the theoretically fastest car in the 1/4. Because who gives a crap about driver skill vs. driver skill. You know that thing that dictates what racing is all about.

Dave_B

Duh and you're only proving my point further.

Are you really telling me cars perform differently between the street and strip regardless of driving

Monte TLS,MAX

So based on what you are saying here " that our cars properly driven can beat a quicker car", so you are saying that those quicker cars are improperly driven? Properly to properly driven they should pull ya, and and SRT8 even if you should get him at launch ever so slightly he should quickly make up that difference and pass with ease.

BEAR-AvHistory

That's the whole point. On the street or on the strip if you are driving a car a second or so faster then the other car you can granny launch & drive around them; I just don’t see how it’s a drivers race. On the street most of the time I will just roll out with a slower car & keep them off my rear quarter panel. There is no point in being ticket bait or break something for no reason. Can just imagine the posts on some sites from guys who hung in there with a faster car.

As for panicking when the other car is well out in front its a good plan that a panicky driver never tries bracket racing.

BEAR-AvHistory

People go to see good races between closely matched cars, that’s why there are classes. They also go to see how their car really performs maybe as compared to the magazine articles they read or YouTube vids they see. Most who go for that reason tend to go home disappointed. Do a search in the 3G section & I believe some of those posts will turn up.

I don’t think a whole lot of people go to see a stream of Corvettes, Camaros & Mustangs eat up 14 second TL’s hoping for one of them to blow-up so the TL can “win”.

Also with most of the cars running autos, driver skill is highly overrated quality on a street driven car, especially by those guys who think they are skilled drivers.

Way too many people are knocking down low 13nd runs their first time at the strip to support how much rocket science street car drag racing is.

Do a poll & see how many rate themselves as a very good driver.

RUF87

So what is your problem with what I posted? I never said a stock 3.2 whould beat a Hemi or a MGT. I said I beat a Hemi . . . as me and my moddified TLS beat that Hemi who was messing with me. Seems like you may have missed that point.

Ruf

RUF87

Go back and read the first post and my other post correctly. Not with your personal bias and opinion.

First of all, where does SRT8 come in to play here? We're talking about a base Hemi that is offered in RT and Dayton trim. These are at best 13.5 sec cars, times that will vary from car to car, location, track surface, driver skill, etc. So at best they are .5 secs faster, and that makes it a drivers race.

If you still don't get it, stop replying as you never will. It's why I love racing all these no-it-alls. They look as specs and assume that the car with the best time or more HP will win evertime . . . both street and strip racing is far more complicated than that. It's why I like to take on guys with technically faster cars and beat them way more often than I lose.

Ruf

RUF87

My point exactly. Some people like to race one way and others a different. And it's really annoying when someone jacks your post and wants the race to be on their terms.

Ruf