Rock Dog

One of the first things I did after getting my car was take it to my local tire guru. And had him run all four corners through the Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer (which I have talked about here and at A-CL, and have been a huge fan and proponent of for years.)

The stock left front tire had a Force Variation of 27lbs. The limit for that size tire is 26lbs. The car also pulled to the left.

I took the car to the dealer, had them replace the tire, and do an alignment.

Got the car back on Friday and the vibration was still there, it was a little worse. But the car pulling to the left was much worse. Took it to my tire shop and had them Road Force the new tire.

The new EL42 and wheel combo now has a force variation of 42 lbs Much worse than the first f'ing tire.

I was fed up, and convinced from my experience, and from many of yours that the BS EL42 was never going to be worthwhile. So I had them order a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss.

The Pilots went on, on Saturday, and it's a whole different car. The Michelins never went over 11 lbs of force variation during their setup. The amazing thing is that the pulling is GONE. The car tracks perfectly straight. The pull is do to "Lateral Force," which is an issue with newer, larger wheels and tires (due to the bigger rims and lower profile tires) the tire and wheel can actually cause the car to pull, and have nothing to do with alignment. Check this out for more info <--- CLICK THE LINK

Anyway. (all comparisons are against the stock EL42s) The Pilots are a little stiffer. Road seams and such, come through a little bit more, but no where near what I experienced with my 01 CL-S. The ride is just as compliant. The dry and wet traction are superior, and it snowed Saturday night, about an inch, so I jumped in to check it out. The EL42s were worthless (mostly) in snow, the Pilots are far superior in that regard, the TCS barely kicked in if at all. Where it kicked in all the time prior. Corners are taking faster as well.

So I am very statisfied with the Pilots so far. I took some pictures, and mpeg videos of the Hunter system working on that replacement EL42 and red flagging it as a POS. Which I intend to use when I talk to my Zone Rep about the fact that I should not have to pay $999 (incl. Mounting, Road Force Balance, and Road hazard lifetime warranty for all 4 Pilots) for a car of this caliber and price, just to get it not to shake and pull. I didn't get the chance yesterday, due leaving a little later than usual, and traffic being a bear, too really check them out. But this morning I took my usual 15 mile, mostly freeway drive into work, and the difference was truly smile inducing. The car is now what it would have been out of the box.

Coming from the lowered spring, stiffer ride of the CL-S, I can certainly deal with the slightly added stiffness of the Pilots.

I am just so pleased. Now it's back to looking forward to driving the car every chance I get.

:smokin:

Rock Dog

Let's start a movement. AO-ABSEL

Acura Owners, Against Bridgestone ELs

neuronbob

Thanks for the review, RD. I was just in your area over the weekend for the NAIAS.

gldman

Rock Dog, Thanks for the comments. I just ordered my Michelin Pilot Sport A/S from Costco. I guess they take a week or two to arrive at the local Costco. My plan is to keep my EL42s and put them back on when the Michelins wear out. Then it should be time to trade the car. My EL42s have been fine on dry surfaces but seem like bald tires on wet or snow covered surfaces. I look forward to the new tires.

Do you think I should take the car to a shop with the hunter GSP 9700 after Costco installs or is that silly?

Thanks again

Rock Dog

No I don't think it's silly at all. I swear by this Hunter system, and would highly recommend it, unequivocally. I would suggest to anyone, with 17" or higher packages, and especially with low profile tires that you spend the $15-$20 a corner and have them run through this balancer. Standard static balancing systems cannot hold a candle to the Hunter GSP9700.

Just go to http://www.gsp9700.com and read some of their great, and informative information. They've got some excellent Shockwave animations that show and explain what happens during the machines process. It's very educational.

Static balancers are fine. But if you've got a sport inspired coupe or sedan, the GSP9700 gives that added boost to setupm, that in a lot of cases can make a considerable difference.

Many of use at a CAI, or springs, sway bars and so on. For a little for performance, and enjoyment of our automobiles. Well then, why not put a little more emphasis on your wheels and tires? Forget that static balance, and run them through the Road Force Balance. There is a difference.

Rock Dog

Oh Great! I'm going to get down there, maybe Friday or saturday. I didn't get to go last year, so I want to check out all the new rides out there.

I especially want to check out the Toureg, Murano and FX35/45 for Mrs. Dog's next ride.

VTEC=happiness

I'm getting more and more excited about getting my new tires!!! Soon I will be able to drive this car for real

Rock Dog

WERD!

I just can't get over how that one crappy EL42 created such a significant pull. I sowre the front end was out of alignment. But like I said above, as soon as the Pilots went on. The car tracks straight as you could hope for.

DaveB99

Dog:

I took your advice and had my A/S Sports put on by a BMW/Toyota hunter shop.

Turned out great. Solid as a rock. I got the alignment done also just to make sure everything is OK.

So you have hunter believer in me.

Thx

Waiting for Acura to trade my old EL42's for new low end Michelins then I'll put them on ebay. It could be a long wait.

rets

Rock Dog,

Congratulations, I'm glad to know you have found the solution for your car. Meanwhile, since EL42 is part of reasons to make 04TL vibrate and Acura's new owners are eager to find the replacement, this seems to bring prosperous bussiness to Hunter GSP9700. Tell you a truth, before 04TL, I never know what "Hunter" is.

BTW, have you got any good news with scratchs over your rim?

Best Regards.

Rock Dog

Yeah! I'm no pichman for Hunter, I know it can sound that way. But it really does make a huge difference in the balance and performacne of your wheels and tires. And let's face it. What's the first thing to interact with the road. I found this machine back in 1999 when I was having issues with another car. A brand new car, and I HATED it, the ride, and vibrating were horrible. So I did some research and found out about the Hunter system. I have not used any other method since. I sewar by this machine. I have my tires rotated regularly, and run through the GSP9700 about every other rotation.

I haven't gotten a solution on the rim scratches yet. I'm putting together a letter to my Zone rep, the owner of the dealership (he owns about 8 different dealerships in the area and is tough man to get a meeting with) and I'm sending it to Acura customer service as well.

I took a bunch of pictures and Mpeg videos of the rim, as well as the EL42 that was way out of spec in Force Variation. I'm going to print the pictures and burn a CD with the Mpegs along with a nice letter explaining the problem. And send it to all 3. We'll have to wait and see.

Modeler

That's great, but I'm getting quotes of at least $120 for 4 tires locally in DC area. I'm going to continue calling, but I can't imaging spending this much for any kind of balancing, candle or no candle.

Modeler

Since you have done this several times, what kind of print-outs or other information should I expect from the Hunter run? I found a place that will do it for $15 per tire, but how do I know they didn't simply put it on a regular balancing machine? (short of observing everything they do, of course)

gotsand?

Put new Michelin Pilot Sports on my TL last Friday and totally agree with Mr. Dog about the ride and feel. (Didn't get the A/S as we don't have any seasons in Arizona except hot and hotter). The EL42s are wrapped in plastic and stored in my garage to see what Acura is going to do. If they do a swap, the plastic ELs are there for another set of Michelins. If not I'll put those puppies on consignment. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Rock Dog

That's BS. You shouldn't pay more than $80 for the 4 corners. BUT, the market will be what the market will be. I would call one of the larger "chain" stores, that's close to your home, and tell them that another place (with a little distance between the 2 stores) told you it would be $20/corner. And that you'd like to stay closer to home if they can meet that price. Or something like that. Otherwise you'll have to drive ALL THE WAY to the other side of town.

Are you sure that $120 quaote wasn't for the new system, with the "StraightTrak LFM (Lateral Force Measurement) system. This is the newer machine. It has a GSP9700, and then the LFM add on machine that checks the combos (whell and tire) for lateral force, this is the problem that can create pulling to one side or the other due to one of the tire/wheel combos being "heavier" if you will, that the others.

The StarightTrak system basically checks the tires for a load (for lack of a better description, see the link I put in my first post of this thread for their explanation) and then tells the tech wear to put each wheel/tire combo in order to reduce the chances of pull.

Rock Dog

The system can have a printer on it. My store did not order or install it. So I watched the tech do it, and took a digital camera with me and photographed the machines screen (which wasn't easy due to the scan frequencies and such) If you've ever tried to video tape, or take digital pictures of a TV or computer screen, you'll know what I mean.

Now I know many places have a "no customers in the shop, due to insurance reasons" So here's a couple of ideas that have worked for me.

1) Tell them you'd like to check out the machine, and see how it works. Be polite, tell them you won't get in the way. Just act like your really interested and curious. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to slip the guy working on your car a fin.

2) Call ahead and tell them you found them from the Hunter website. Ask if they have a printer on the machine, if not. Take your camera with you. When you get there. Tell them you're having a problem with the dealership regarding the balance and quality of the tires, you suspect a bad tire or balance job, and that you'd like to take pictures of the system and it's screen with your tires on it, so that you have proof to fight the dealer and the manufacturer with.

2) Tell them that you took the car somewhere else (their competitor is great, because you can make like they are "idiots over there" blowing smoke, and bringing down their guard) and they goofed it all up. And that you'd like to watch how the system works so that you can go back to the other place with proof they screwed it up, so you can get your money back.

4) If it's one of those really big tire stores, just do what I do. Hang out at the bay entrance while they are pulling your car in. A car like that... it's not unusual for the customer to keep an eye on it. And then slowly but surely strike up a conversation with the guy working on your car, and ease you're way back next to the Hunter system to watch what he does. Ask a couple of questions about the machine, not too many. You don't want to piss him off, or "bother him" so to speak. But just enough to blow a little smoke, and make him feel like you're impressed with what he's doing.

Most places only have 1 or 2 guys trained on the Hunter. It is not something any shmoe can just walk up and start using, and it costs a lot of money compared to a static balancer. I think they are like $20,000. So these guys have to have some decent training to operate one. Most places are not going to spend the money to train their whole crew on it. What's good about this is that they usually train their top guys on it. Not some punk ass goof. I've found that the guys running the system are usually fairly smart, and polite. The better of the tire shop breed if you will. The guy who did my car is working on a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, with and EE minor. Really nice guy, and very informative and helpful.

Again, it never hurts to throw a five'r at him either. Just grease it a little, you know?

rets

This is very good. I learn something new again.

Hope your fight against your dealership's falseness would get the successful results. Your impressive video/photo should make documents truer.

KJSmitty

The local Discount Tire shop has the Road Force at $10.00 per tire then another $10 per tire needing more than balancing. IE: if road force variance is detected and the tire must be rotated on the rim, it costs you a total of $20 for that tire.

Smitty