Originally Posted by traidsganster

No offense taken , that is why I have 3 cars CLICK EHRE 1 FOR long distance chilling, 1 for weekend roar and one from and to work as a beater

But yes, the GS430 is a very nice car. But to me, that's too family like. I need something that won't make me feel like I'm driving a BOAT.

Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME

Congrats to you on having to commute on 15 everyday. Not so sure I would be keen on 80+ MPH on that road though. On ramps are a plenty and not much room for error - but a great ride nonetheless.

I ate an I30t the other day on my way into work.........

Originally Posted by HuKaShi

So I was driving in to work and I have a nice 45 minute commute and a nice road to drive down on. For those of you who know the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut, its a nice fun twisty type road.

I saw a Lexus GS merge on behind me. I quickly glanced ahead of me and then to my right and to my surprise he was already next to me. He gave me a nod and then took off. At this point, I didn't know it was the V8 version. His car was silver and I couldn't make out the numbers on the back of his trunk. Now I was already doing 80 on this parkway. He took off from 80 and must have hit 120 in a matter of like 3-4 seconds. And so for alittle fun, I took off after him. We come up on a cluster of cars and we slowly navigate through them. As soon as we get through we take off again. MY GOD THAT THING IS FAST. Now at this point, I know its a GS430 with the V8. I'm speeding up from about 70 and just reaching 120 where he is about a good 6 car lengths ahead of me. It looked so effortless for him. He would then slow down cause we came up on another cluster of cars. And then as soon as we clear them, take off again. He did this to me 5 times.

We then came up on my exit and I slowed down to exit. He waved and gave me the blinkers and took off. He wasn't a jerk about it so it was cool. I have been humbled by that Lexus.

I'm thinking honda needs to wake up and make some V8's. They can say to themselves all they want that a V6 will do fine but I saw first hand what a Japanese V8 can do.

Originally Posted by avs007

I have to agree. I went to test-drive a Lexus GS300 a long time ago. They actually told me, "We are not in the business of letting high schoolers come in here and joyride in our vehicles. If you want to drive our vehicles, please come back with your parents"

I was 24 or 25 at the time, was with my wife, and IIRC, I was wearing kackis and a button up shirt, as I met my wife there from work. When he said this I felt like driving my car through their front window. Ron Tonkin Acura, across the street was no better actually. The saleslady actually closed the hood while I still had my head in the engine compartment. She said that she had serious customers that wanted to look at the car. In Acura's defense, the acura dealer across town (Acura of Portland), was a billion times nicer than either of these other dealers.

I went to test drive a BMW, and they didn't hesitate. I was even wearing jeans and a T-shirt. They didn't even bother to take any of my information down. Just told me to be back in 20 minutes or so.

Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME

Congrats to you on having to commute on 15 everyday. Not so sure I would be keen on 80+ MPH on that road though. On ramps are a plenty and not much room for error - but a great ride nonetheless.

I ate an I30t the other day on my way into work.........

Originally Posted by HuKaShI

To me, the 15 is very safe except for one HUGE danger.

DEER!

God, they scare the bejesus out of me.

One crossed my path once and ABS saved my life and the life of my TL.

I usually only speed on the 15 in broad daylight so that I can see the sides of the road. The deer usually like to watch and wait and then pounce. If I see one on the side of the road, I don't speed for the rest of my ride.

Originally Posted by F23A4

Nice run nonetheless. The only time I've had a run (with my 02 Maxima) where I 'helplessly' watched some walk me (non-track) was with a C5...even then, I just wanted to see him run.

Originally Posted by HuKaShI

So I was driving in to work and I have a nice 45 minute commute and a nice road to drive down on. For those of you who know the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut, its a nice fun twisty type road.

I saw a Lexus GS merge on behind me. I quickly glanced ahead of me and then to my right and to my surprise he was already next to me. He gave me a nod and then took off. At this point, I didn't know it was the V8 version. His car was silver and I couldn't make out the numbers on the back of his trunk. Now I was already doing 80 on this parkway. He took off from 80 and must have hit 120 in a matter of like 3-4 seconds. And so for alittle fun, I took off after him. We come up on a cluster of cars and we slowly navigate through them. As soon as we get through we take off again. MY GOD THAT THING IS FAST. Now at this point, I know its a GS430 with the V8. I'm speeding up from about 70 and just reaching 120 where he is about a good 6 car lengths ahead of me. It looked so effortless for him. He would then slow down cause we came up on another cluster of cars. And then as soon as we clear them, take off again. He did this to me 5 times.

We then came up on my exit and I slowed down to exit. He waved and gave me the blinkers and took off. He wasn't a jerk about it so it was cool. I have been humbled by that Lexus.

I'm thinking honda needs to wake up and make some V8's. They can say to themselves all they want that a V6 will do fine but I saw first hand what a Japanese V8 can do.

Originally Posted by rets

Btw, speaking of 15, two lanes highway, are there any particular areas/traps cops would hide there?

Originally Posted by Zeuser

Totally retarded!

The TL isn't in the same class as a GS430 in any aspect (including price). While Honda should be looking at making V8s, not in my TL please. I will NOT buy a V8 TL !!!

Acura needs a V8 car beyond the RL. But leave the TL as-is. And inline 4 isn't enough for a car th size of the TL. A V8 is to much and I wouldn't buy one. A 270HP V6 is just perfect imo. And I'm not the only one.

If you want a Japanese V8 luxury sedan, sell your TL, fork over the extra bucks and go get the GS430. If that's what you really want, then do it right.

Originally Posted by Nodoze2004

Doing 'great'? The RL is not selling nearly as well as Acura predicted. My wife worked for the local Acura dealer and the word from the top is that the car is simply not moving off the lots. If they offered some options, perhaps a choice of engines (V8 anyone) maybe this would change. Honda has pretty much reached the ceiling on their current V6 engines in the TL, RL, and MDX(unless they intend to introduce turbocharged versions which I highly doubt).

Acura's biggest issue is that as a whole they offer VERY few options. So even if said 'value shopper' likes the vehicle, there is very little that can be added to the options wise (aside from A-Spec which on the RL will NOT sell). A V8 is a status engine, and since the RL is selling for 50k it falls into the status category. The problem is that Lexus, AND Infiniti offer their customers a choice, Acura does not.

Nissan has figured this out, Toyota has figured this out....Honda..hmm well they just don't get it! As a company they equip there lower line cars with features that are not available in the Luxury brand vehicles (completely assanine), they offer very few options for the high end customers, there is no product consistency etc etc I could go on and on (and I am an owner). Nissan and Toyota have really made exemplary efforts to seperate and distinguish Infiniti and Lexus as new and better brands than the base, Honda has not. Acura dealerships are nothing more than Honda dealerships with different badges on the front of the building.

Honda needs to take it's head out of the collective sand and wake up.

Originally Posted by matelot

you guys are whacks drivin at that speed on Merrit
just dont take anyone with you when you go....

Originally Posted by HuKaShI

Nowhere in my opening post does it say that I want my TL to have a V8. I was simply stating that Acura needs a V8 in its lineup. I would have to agree with you that another entry above the RL with a V8 would do the trick nicely.

Originally Posted by glacius

Yes, I concur.. Honda should make a V8 engine so you can race a Lexus..



- g

Originally Posted by Nodoze2004

Doing 'great'? The RL is not selling nearly as well as Acura predicted. My wife worked for the local Acura dealer and the word from the top is that the car is simply not moving off the lots. If they offered some options, perhaps a choice of engines (V8 anyone) maybe this would change. Honda has pretty much reached the ceiling on their current V6 engines in the TL, RL, and MDX(unless they intend to introduce turbocharged versions which I highly doubt).

Acura's biggest issue is that as a whole they offer VERY few options. So even if said 'value shopper' likes the vehicle, there is very little that can be added to the options wise (aside from A-Spec which on the RL will NOT sell). A V8 is a status engine, and since the RL is selling for 50k it falls into the status category. The problem is that Lexus, AND Infiniti offer their customers a choice, Acura does not.

Nissan has figured this out, Toyota has figured this out....Honda..hmm well they just don't get it! As a company they equip there lower line cars with features that are not available in the Luxury brand vehicles (completely assanine), they offer very few options for the high end customers, there is no product consistency etc etc I could go on and on (and I am an owner). Nissan and Toyota have really made exemplary efforts to seperate and distinguish Infiniti and Lexus as new and better brands than the base, Honda has not. Acura dealerships are nothing more than Honda dealerships with different badges on the front of the building.

Honda needs to take it's head out of the collective sand and wake up.

Originally Posted by Legend2TL

Actually Honda/Acura do get it. They've typically always approached their automotive division with different model trims (DX/LX/EX for Accord, L/LS for Legend ...etc.) instead of individual options and option groups. Alot of automobile customers prefer the trim level groups versus indvidual options and option package groups. Although it makes it nice to taylor the car you want with the options you want it makes it more difficult for manufacturing and much more difficult to do comparison shopping between dealers. A colleague was very frustrated in her search for her Lexus IS300 trying to get the cofiguration she wanted.

Having option package groups and individual options does however can make very good profit margins for the manufacturer and better profit for the dealer. However it also makes for more of a pull based versus push based manufacturing line which can create alot of issues for just in time manufacturing supply chain management which Toyota and Honda prefer. It's one area of distinction between Honda and Toyota which does have individual options and package groups.

Originally Posted by Legend2TL

Actually Honda/Acura do get it. They've typically always approached their automotive division with different model trims (DX/LX/EX for Accord, L/LS for Legend ...etc.) instead of individual options and option groups. Alot of automobile customers prefer the trim level groups versus indvidual options and option package groups. Although it makes it nice to taylor the car you want with the options you want it makes it more difficult for manufacturing and much more difficult to do comparison shopping between dealers. A colleague was very frustrated in her search for her Lexus IS300 trying to get the cofiguration she wanted.

Having option package groups and individual options does however can make very good profit margins for the manufacturer and better profit for the dealer. However it also makes for more of a pull based versus push based manufacturing line which can create alot of issues for just in time manufacturing supply chain management which Toyota and Honda prefer. It's one area of distinction between Honda and Toyota which does have individual options and package groups.

The largest extent for factory installed options has been DVD Entertainment and GPS Nav systems for the Odyssey/Pilot/MDX and Nav for other Honda/Acura models.

One of the more interesting changes for the TL was the broad range of color combinations for exterior and interior colors. One thing that is happening is the broader range of trim levels that Honda has introduced with the 2005 Odyssey minivan.

Originally Posted by Nodoze2004

I think you have applied reverse logic here. You consider 'getting it', to mean how can said company/dealership make more profit margin. I consider 'getting it' understanding your customer, and offering the CUSTOMER what they want (i.e. choice). I don't give a rats rear end how hard it makes the mfg/selling/delivery process!! As it stands I had to wait months to take JIT delivery of my vehicle (which was a 6MT Navi)!? I would not have minded the wait if I had gone in and customized the vehicle with specific options, colors, engine, drivetrain layout etc., but all I did was select from the ONE model they had, and the ONE option they had (TL, and Navi). Dell makes a killing with the JIT model (granted we are not comparing apples to apples) and they have literlly HUNDREDs of options per computer. The first MFG that does this in the auto industry will make MINT!!

Business exists because of customers, not the other way around!! I think they teach that in first year economics!

Originally Posted by HuKaShI

Nah, I've taken it pretty easy the past few days.

It was wet here all weekend so didn't want to risk any damage to my baby.

I'm not a racer though. I only speed when I feel its safe. Its not an everyday thing for me. Even with the GS430, if there was any more traffic than there was that day, I wouldn't have done it.

Originally Posted by RUF87

BTW, shouldn't expect to take a GS430 from that speed. I've taken taken GS400s and SC430s from a stop and from 50 to 100 , but then they close and pass you soon enough . . . if you're already at those upper speeds . . forget it . . you need a SC or turbo to get 'em.

Ruf

Originally Posted by HuKaShI

Nah, I've taken it pretty easy the past few days.

It was wet here all weekend so didn't want to risk any damage to my baby.

I'm not a racer though. I only speed when I feel its safe. Its not an everyday thing for me. Even with the GS430, if there was any more traffic than there was that day, I wouldn't have done it.

Originally Posted by Nodoze2004

I was not trying to offend, in fact my only intention was to point out that the RL was not doing well by using your wording. I am also not debating the fact that honda can build a hell of V6. My point is that while Acura may well be a 'value' brand, why not offer additional options to sweeten the deals a bit more. While I do not agree with the steep pricing on the options available for MB and BMW cars, at least they have choices. Comparitively Acura's 'everything you could possibly want is already included in the base price, so don't bother looking for any options' mentality seems a bit limiting. I for one am really enjoying the MP3 player in the TL.....oh wait they don't have one (nor do they offer one as an option).

They have built there reputation on value, which is good, but how many opportunities are they letting slip because of the lack of choice? I would say a large number. If you have a customer that has mentally committed himself/herself to spending 45k on that shiny new BMW, and then that customer sees and falls in love with the Acura they CANT spend that extra money (well aside from the trunk tray etc). Choice is a good thing, the more choice the better. It empowers customers to personalize purchases. I think this is the key area where Honda is truly missing the boat. Almost ALL competitors offer options galore, Engine, Drivetrain layout, etc etc.

Traditionally, value and luxury are not synonymous terms. In fact the term value is offensive to some luxury car buyers (they want that status, that is what they are paying the premium for). Lexus understands this, Infiniti is coming around, but Acura...well lets just say they don't know how to deliniate very well. To the company an Acura is a Honda, and vice versa.

As a parting thought, my TL is anything but fuel efficient!! I have averaged 16mpg since I have received the car (this includes the break in period during which the car was babied). To be honest I have encountered V8's that are more efficient! Your mileage may vary, but mine is consistently poor (but alas I wanted the extra muscle a V6 provides).

Originally Posted by Legend2TL

Actually Honda/Acura do get it. They've typically always approached their automotive division with different model trims (DX/LX/EX for Accord, L/LS for Legend ...etc.) instead of individual options and option groups. Alot of automobile customers prefer the trim level groups versus indvidual options and option package groups. Although it makes it nice to taylor the car you want with the options you want it makes it more difficult for manufacturing and much more difficult to do comparison shopping between dealers. A colleague was very frustrated in her search for her Lexus IS300 trying to get the cofiguration she wanted.

Having option package groups and individual options does however can make very good profit margins for the manufacturer and better profit for the dealer. However it also makes for more of a pull based versus push based manufacturing line which can create alot of issues for just in time manufacturing supply chain management which Toyota and Honda prefer. It's one area of distinction between Honda and Toyota which does have individual options and package groups.

The largest extent for factory installed options has been DVD Entertainment and GPS Nav systems for the Odyssey/Pilot/MDX and Nav for other Honda/Acura models.

One of the more interesting changes for the TL was the broad range of color combinations for exterior and interior colors. One thing that is happening is the broader range of trim levels that Honda has introduced with the 2005 Odyssey minivan.

Harley Davidson (yes they make motorcycles) produce a extremely broad range of models, options, and colors for their bikes. You can tour the York PA final assembly facility every October at their open house. As a engineering manager I'm pretty amazed at their supply chain management and how all the specialized components arrive at each work station despite building fairly customized motorcycles, and I ride a Honda bike.

Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3

A article I read said it perfectly, "Acura don't give me what I need, but what I want". Honda should be giving what I need, luxury should give me excess.
RWD and V-8s......thank you, any clown can have a FWD/V-6 car, like a Kia.

Originally Posted by ASPEC05

e36 manual spanks any TL's out there. yes my aspec is faster than my old m3 bc it was an auto

Originally Posted by ASPEC05

e36 manual spanks any TL's out there. yes my aspec is faster than my old m3 bc it was an auto

Originally Posted by ASPEC05

lexus are slow....the onlyh fast car they ever produced was the supra (toyota). i ve spanked so mnay GS 430 or whatever with my M3. Sure it was somewhat modded but my 6spd a-spec is faster than the M3 so im thikning i can run it

Originally Posted by RUF87

I guess someone forgot to tell the M3s I beat those facts. You can't just show up with the specs on how fast your car is . . . you got to win the race to do that.

Ruf