rolan04tl

Well, I got into a crash yesteday, it was nothing huge, but three vehicles were involved and I dont know if I am at fault. here's the story:

I was at a red light and my car was sticking out about 1 foot because I got the yellow pretty late. I was at the middle lane and I had a big SUV to my right so I could not see to the right and a car behind me so I could not back up. Anyways, I was at a dead stop, and the car who had the green light passed so close it hit my bumper. it like scraped it. His car got scraped from the front wheel to the back of the car but he also lost control an hit the SUVto his right. The police came and they didnt say who was at fault. (only in Puerto Rico) jeje. I know My car was sticking out, but I was at a dead stop. I dont know if the other driver should have been more watchfull or something. maybe its ashare fould I dont know.
I hope I could describe it so you can understand it, but its hard. Ill try and draw something and post it if I get a chance.

.............. l lvl l
.............. l lvl l
.............. l lvl l
.............. l lvl l
_________l l()l l_______
_->_->_->_ DD_ _ _ _ _
_________. . . OO_____
.............. l l l l
.............. l l l l
.............. l l l l
.............. l l l l


- Both streets are one way. Direction = -> and v
- this is my car = ()
- This is the car that hit my bumper = DD
- this is the SUV that got hit = OO

I hope this helps. I see if I can put something better together.

Thank you guys in advance for any help.

Peace,

Rolan

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

im gonna say you are at fault.... That line is there to keep people a safe distance from opposite traffic or pedestrians walking across. I have read about people who cross those lines in Major Cities getting cited for passing that line..I understand you couldn't stop in time. Im not sure if you are subject to both vehicles but definitely the vehicle that hit you.

6spdtl-s

iTrader: (1)

gut feeling says you are since you failed to stop at the stop line.

subinf

Both of you share some liability, you probably take the brunt of it. Your insurance company will hold it against you

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

This would fall under "mutual liability" in which both drivers are at fault...but I have no idea as to what PR's laws are, and, judging by the cop's inability to reach a conclusion, I wouldn't hold out hope for you getting off the hook.

The ONLY means by which the SUV driver would be at fault is if you or an attorney managed to prove that he was taking the turn at too steep an angle, which is a ticket-able offense (then again, so is driving, living, and breathing) here in New Joisey

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Well regardless of who is at fault the guy that clipped you is a total moron. How do you not see the car there and continue to drive straight right into the car??!??!?! What an idiot.

JwongTLS

should of gunned it

or stomp on the brakes and pull da e-brake

honestly i would say it's that fuckers fault for giving u some space when he drove by



every now and then people cant brake on-times.. thats understandable

SlowDown

your fault

huystAr

iTrader: (3)

yeah that'd be your fault... i like your picture though, very creative

t3hanarchist

your car was sticking out, you definitely have some fault

but the other guy you could probably argue had fault for making a crooked turn or something because if your car was only 1 ft over, either 1. the SUV driver made a terrible curve or something (so partly his fault) or 2. the yellow line is poorly drawn (so government fault ???)

idk its puerto rico tho...

dave_ramkumar

iTrader: (5)

nice diagram, but it seems like ur a fault

01tl4tl

mutual- you have to stay behind the line
They have to use common sense and `due care` in operating their vehicle so as to avoid objects in the road

Wanna bet a cell phone was involved?

01tl4tl

Is PR a no fault insurance or regular insurance?
Your rates cant go up until your current insurance period/contract ends, then they reevaluate and see if you go up

Contact your agent with pics and diagrams, description
Were you actually more than a foot?

JwongTLS

It's like saying if u stopped in the middle of the intersection, the car passing has the rights to T-bone u. GL!

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

Im going to say he did not want to jerk it to the right since he did not know if anyone was there. Its all up to a good lawyer :-)

spinxt

Since it was such a minor accident, your insurance company will most likely bear the brunt of the repair cost, but it should split between yours and the other vehicle owner's insurance. It all has to do with the wording in the police report. If it were, unfortunately, a more serious accident with injuries, you could perhaps win on a "breech of duty" plead (a type of negligence). Basically claiming the the person that hit you had duty to avoid you by attempting a safe and reasonable maneuver. Since you were at a stop, this MIGHT hold up (again depending how the police report was written up).

That said, since this is a minor accident, none of this is worth pursuing, just pay the deductible and move on.

odehboy

I'm pretty sure i remember hearing in drivers ed class that if you COULD avoid it and you dont its your fualt. What you have to argue is that he could have avoided you even tho you were sticking out a bit. One could run every stop light untill pulled over and then tell the cop i didnt want to stop in the middle of the intersection? so i ran the red light (the cop will more than likely give you a ticket) Wish you the best of luck dealing with the insurance company.

InWI

I would think that since you were stopped and he was moving the majority of fault would be on them.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Their fault, will explain once I get out of class.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

WO WO WO !!!!

so i doubt ur at fault....

ok so u were ahead of the line ur fault....the truck to ur right was ahead the line (prolly more than u) and hence u cudnt see, and hence the SUV driver cudnt see....

yes u were ahead of the line so was the friggin truck.....and if the car missed the truck and hit u, its his fault.....

as a counter argument, if the truck was not ahead of the line....then the SUV shouldve clearly seen u and avoided you !!!

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

still think OP is at fault due to they will be gladly to tell you they didn't paint that line for no reason... The line is the stopping point at which gives a safe distance from other forms of traffic. Being they were pass the line clearly shows you failed to stop behind the safety barrier and you got hit. Yes it seems the driver that hit you could have avoided this but he didn't.

rolan04tl

Thats my car, and a satellite picture of the actual intersection where the accident happened.


My insurance guy tells me It could go both ways, or be a split responsibility. It just depends on whoever sees the case and the police report which I’m not going to be able to see for at least 7 days.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

wow how did he hit u ??? and react in a way to hit the other car... !!!!!

i was thinking the car that hit you was making a left turn and since u were ahead of the line, didnt see u and hit you and since he was on the curve lost control and hit another car !!!!

man definitely not ur fault !!!!

Glad it wasnt me....I would have gotten out and shaken the dude UP !!!!

YeuEmMaiMai

if you were stickin out in the road, you are at fault......

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

how is it NOT his fault???? the OP was clearly out too far pass the line and the person that hit him had the right away at the time. I see this all the time people have their car sticking out too far. i couldnt ever see if i was driving down the road and someones nose sticking out and i hit it and its my fault lol

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i completely agree dude...what am trying to say was this was avoidable....

the OP didnt come speeding and hit the brakes with the nose poking out and the car hit him.....the OP was parked !!! The car was clearing the intersection didnt either have good judgment or some like that and hit the OP.....honestly.....

if i was at the OP's spot or the SUV's spot....i would still feel it was the other persons fault....sounds to me like 50-50.....but this was definitely avoidable !!!

rolan04tl

Well, its about the law and how you interpret it. the thing is, if you could avoid an acident you should, and failing to do so makes you also resposble. since his car was moving and mine wasnt, its understood he should have avoided the accident. I mean, if someone is J walking that dosnt mean you have a right to run over them. As a responsibble driver, If you can avoided it its your responsability to do so. I guess a good lawyer could make a case both ways. =)

chapu08

Man sorry to hear that. If the cop did not make a judgment based on the facts, good luck with the PR mandatory supplemental insurance, which is intended to make sure that all cars are minimally insured. This system really sucks!! At the end your private insurance will pay for your car damages, as everybody else; and the mandatory insurance will only pay a 50% of the private insurance deductible, believe it or not. Keep us posted on how this story ends.

Rolan, pm me if you want to know the story of my wife's recent accident.

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you.... but if you are both just fixing your own repairs a Lawyer is definitely not worth a 250 bumper and some paint. I would pay out of pocket and roll on!

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

EXACTLY!!! this should have been avoided but we have some stupid ass drivers out there that only pay attention to texting, talking, make-up, etc. Just watching some people out there makes me wonder when i will be next

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

dude temme about it !!!!

i was in the exactly the same situation as the OP.....but on a X intersection....

how i wanted to turn left....and left only had 2 lanes....i was on the inner lane where the white line ends earlier than the other lane....now a big ass ford truck comes in the other lane....so not only am 2 feet behind but i cant see for shit.....

while at the light the perpendicular lane guy jumped his red....and he wanted to get in the opposite direction of me.....when my light turned green (i was busy kissin my chic ) and hence i didnt leave the intersection....and out of no where this dude came in front of me....missing my nose by prolly 3-5 inches.....i was FAWK !!!

guess the kiss saved my car

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I don't care if your car was in the middle of the god damn intersection and you got hit, it is NOT your fault. If the person can't see there is a car right in front of him/her than they shouldn't even be driving. For a car to run into you means it was INTENTIONAL meaning it was their fault. If they can't see within a 100 FT of them than they are not allowed to drive via driving laws of any state. That is why you have to have corrective sight if you're going to drive.

Their fault 100%.

Don't even try to deal with them. File a claim with your insurance, you should win 100% with or without a lawyer. How anyone can say it is his fault is beyond me. So you're telling me if my car broke down in the middle of the intersection or on the side of the highway, it should be my fault if I get hit and killed? Nope. Just like if someone hit you from behind, you're almost NEVER wrong. You must leave a certain distance behind a vehicle EVEN if your brake lights were broken, or something else was wrong.

To prove it even more, I asked a local PO PO about it, and almost in 99% of the cases, the other car is at fault because they should've yielded if they saw the face of your car sticking out regardless.

JwongTLS

I completely agree with u..

I dont think OP is at fault at ALL even if he was over the line.

1995hoo

I don't know what Puerto Rico law is, but as others have said, the stop bar is there for a reason. I've known people who have been ticketed in New York when they've pulled past the stop bar and blocked the crosswalk. Anyway, while the stop bar is not directly at issue in a civil claim such as yours—it's there as a traffic control device—some judges will accept the law on stopping behind the stop bar as evidence of the applicable standard of care in a civil case. If the reasonable man of ordinary prudence would have stopped behind the stop line and you fail to do so, then you're negligent.

The fact of the SUV next to you that made it hard for you to see no doubt would have made it hard for the other driver to see you as well, so it's unclear to me whether the other driver might be on the hook for contributory or comparative negligence. I do not know what Puerto Rico law on these two doctrines is; in a nutshell, "contributory negligence," which is the principle applied here in Virginia, holds that where the plaintiff himself was negligent, he is barred from recovering even though the defendant was negligent; "comparative negligence," in contrast, is the rule followed in most US states and holds that the parties' relative negligence is apportioned between them in determining what measure of damages is awarded.

There is also a doctrine called "last clear chance" that can override contributory negligence; I do not know whether it is also applied in comparative-negligence states. Essentially, if I'm recalling my first-year torts class correctly from 1995 and the bar review class from 1998, the notion is that after the defendant proves that the plaintiff was contributorily negligent, the plaintiff argues that the defendant was the only one of the two of them who could have avoided the accident—he had the "last clear chance"—and so ought to be liable anyway. It does not sound to me as though this would apply in your situation because you weren't moving, couldn't back up, and couldn't see the guy coming due to the SUV next to you. If you couldn't see a car coming, then you probably didn't have a clear chance to avoid the accident. The classic example of "last clear chance" is where a pedestrian is crossing against the light. A driver hits him. The pedestrian sues and the driver argues contributory negligence. The driver loses—he had the "last clear chance" to avoid the accident by hitting his brakes (assuming the pedestrian didn't just jump out in front of him at the last second when it would be too late to brake, of course).

My gut tells me that the accident was your fault due to your negligence in stopping your car in a position where it protruded into an intersection and that, based solely on the facts you've recited, the other guy probably wasn't contributorily negligent based on your statement that there was an SUV large enough to hide your car. My reaction might change if the SUV were also protruding into the intersection, however.

None of this is legal advice, of course, since I'm not admitted in Puerto Rico and don't know much about Puerto Rico law, although I did work on a case involving a beer tax down there some years back.

1995hoo

I tried to edit my post to make a further clarification to the first paragraph, but it's been too long and the board won't let me do it. To underscore the point about the standard of care, I was going to say this: "A criminal or traffic statute is often considered convincing evidence of the standard of care applicable in negligence cases when the statute was enacted for a safety reason. In this case, the stop bar is there to keep cars from protruding into the intersection, ensuring the way is clear for traffic on the other road. Many judges might conclude that it's negligent to fail to obey the stop bar, especially if it's right up against the intersection without an intervening crosswalk."

TLin401

x2

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

HAHA are you KIDDING!!!! You need to ask a smarter PO... maybe one that knows the laws alittle more... You cant be sticking out in a intersection and get hit and consider it to be the other persons fault. ITS YOUR FAULT you were in the intersection of oncoming traffic. Oh and by the way yes if your car breaks down and you cause an accident YES you can be liable for it....dont kid yourself

leedogg

I'm going to side with the lawyer here

The other driver could even claim you came out into the intersection as he was passing and therefore he couldnt have reasonably avoided you. Either way, your violation (stopping beyond the stop line therefore creating an obstacle in the intersection) was the root cause of this accident.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i think what will decide the case is the location !!!

If the location was more like a downtown location where people tend to walk more, then i think OP is at fault....usually at downtown areas where people walk they dont want cars sticking ahead of the white line....

if it was more of an urban to rural area where pedestrians are very low, then yes i think the SUV was at fault.....

i still think regardless, the OP wasnt at fault !!!

nfnsquared

Ahhh yes, all the armchair lawyers (except for 1995hoo) are telling how they know it all. The truth is, no one here knows for sure, not even 1995hoo as he was very careful to explain.

The insurance companies and/or the Puerto Rico court system will decide.

OP, let us know how it turns out. Then we can have fun watching all the "see, I told you so" posts!!