kkltam

This truely sucks...I was making a left at this intersection, following a string of cars. The light turned yellow and I was still in 2nd gear of my 06 TL and, well, you know what happened. The camera caught me going thru the intersection with the red traffic arrow, and now I'm a proud owner of an expensive ticket.

Questions for you guys. Who has tried these license plate sprays that supposedly glaring out the license plate if a traffic camera tries to take the picture and does it really work?
2nd question is if there are no posted signs that says there are traffic cameras for that intersection, does that make the ticket "invalid" since I thought a disclaimer needs to be posted at the intersection.

This is only the second ticket I got in 16 years. Believe me I'm not trying to do anything illegal but I swear this is a new camera installed at that intersection and it's a traffic ticket TRAP...quite a few coworkers have been caught also. Thanks in advance for your advice.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

You should definitely research the specific laws according to state because I think they are pretty specific to what guidelines have to be met to hold up in court. For example, I know they have to have a "clear" picture of your face, etc...

Tripp11

Or......since you admitted to the wrongdoing, you should just pay the damn ticket.

As with any moving violation (i.e. speeding tickets, unsafe starts, etc...), "if you wanna play, you're gonna have to pay."

trancemission

To be honest Im glad they are starting to use camera's now. My wife almost got smashed into today because of somebody running the left turn light..

kevin28282

in california, well atleast in san diego there has to be a sign that says traffic cameras are in use. if its not right infront of the intersection try a few back, i know a few beach cities have signs when you enter the city saying that this city uses traffic cameras

kevin28282

oh yeah and it has been proven that after the installation of traffic cameras, the rate of accidents actually incrased. its mainly because now people are so afraid of the cameras they slam on their breaks which causes people to rear end and cause a chain reaction...so its debateble in how effective they really are in preventing accidents (but atleast rear ending is less severe then a tbone)

djesuna

check out ticketassassin.com... they have some good tips on how you may beat the ticket on or before the court date. A traffic camera is tougher to dispute though... good luck.

I see a lot of people driving around with those clear plastic coverings over their license plates... and oftentimes it's so old that it's kinda yellow or brown. Seems to work for them, I can barely read the numbers through it :P

crashandburn

In some areas, I think the camera tickets are civil violations (like parking tickets) rather than moving violations. That way they can just force the registered owner to pay it whether they were driving the car or not.

Something needs to be done about red light runners but these cameras are pretty obnoxious. If they're going to put cameras up, they should also give some indication of how long the yellow will be. Like, paint a yellow line on the road -- if you're travelling the posted speed limit and you are behind the yellow line when the light goes yellow, then you won't legally make it through the intersection and you should stop. I guess that would be too helpful...

djesuna

Is it because of the increase of traffic cameras? Or is it because people are getting stupider? Today I was almost in a 3 car pileup when the lady in front stopped suddenly in a 55-70 zone (everyone was going 70), because she almost missed the left turn lane separated by an island. The thing is, stuff like this happens to me almost every day

djesuna

In LA it's a moving violation

vtec 6300

http://www.photoblocker.com/lo_photoblocker.htm

I've used it on all my cars and never received a red light ticket.

Washington

This is insightful. If this is not a moving violation (in other words, if the authorities are citing the car, rather than the driver [like a parking ticket]) it may be cost-effective just to pay the ticket; this would perhaps not affect your insurance rates. That's all that really matters. Check with the Court, and your insurance agent.

dmarcus48

You mean like this?



In NJ it's not exactly legal, but it's only an obstruction of the plate = $42. I've had it for four years.

Got it from radarbusters.com

Dave

Washington

There's a theory of law that grapples with this issue. It may differ from state-to-state. It's this: If you enter an intersection legally (green or yellow light), how can it be possible for you to exit it illegally? When, exactly, did you break the law?

• The key, imho, is when did you enter the intersection?
• If you entered the intersection after the light was red, you're SOL
• If not, how can it be a violation for entering an intersection on a yellow light? We go on green, and it may be impossible to stop if the light turns yellow as we transition. If you enter the intersection on green or yellow, you are, by definition of many states' laws, legal. The law puts everyone in an untenable position if it make entering an intersection on a yellow light illegal.
• Therefore, once you have entered the intersection legally, what is one to do when the light turns red? Sit in the middle of the intersection obstructing traffic in order to imdemnify yourself against a traffic ticket? The law does not intend this.
• A light turning green for the opposing traffic does not mean "hit the gas." Drivers with a light changing to green are still responsible for ensuring that the intersection is clear before proceeding. Otherwise, pedestrians would be fair game.

bluenoise

Is that because you don't run red lights or is it because you use the spray and blast through red lights?

vtec 6300

At times, I have blasted through intersections when the lights were changing from green to yellow. I don't blast through red lights.

bluenoise

Do the red light cameras fire in the green-yellow situations or the yellow-red situations?

LacViet

This site will explain some of the question above:
http://www.motorists.com/issues/enfo...cmodellaw.html

vtec 6300

I've read that the red light cameras fire half a second after the light turns red.

DFBRL8R

I feel for you! But the bad thing about them are the asshats that slam on thier brakes when they are almost at the crosswalk because they are afraid of getting a ticket I've seen it too many times. Take a look at the skid marks the next time you come up to a photo intersection.


Doh I just read Kevin28282's post

bluenoise

So, if the camera only snaps a pic if you enter the intersection on the red, the only way to know the spray is saving you from getting tickets is if you have run red lights, had your picture taken, and not received a ticket, right?

paradigm

basic driver's education courses teach caution when approaching "stale" green lights. you are supposed to be defensive at all times...so being aware that the light may turn yellow soon is your responsibility. just because people "slam on the brakes at the last second" doesn't make up for your own responsibility of not following too close to accomodate the stupidity of the driver in front of you.

bottom line...if you frequently go through yellow lights, expect something to happen sooner or later (ticket or worse...an accident).

also, to respond to the question about how is it illegal to exit an intersection after entering it legally...this could also apply to above. we've all seen busy intersections where cars end up sitting in the middle of the intersection blocking oncoming cross traffic because they didn't stop when the light was turning yellow, even though you can clearly see the traffic jam ahead...they simply move into the intersection because they think they will save a few seconds on their commute. even if that isn't illegal, it is poor driving for sure.

Will Y.

I was going to ask a similar question! The spray and optical plate covers would not be cost effective since I have never received a red light ticket (only a couple of speeding tickets) and have successfully avoided running red lights.
In California, the cameras are supposed to work only after the light has turned red, and the sensors will only activate cameras if a vehicle enters the intersection (enters the plane of the crosswalk) after the light has been red for some fraction of a second. If a car is already in the intersection waiting to turn left, etc., it will not activate the cameras. If cameras are activated, the photos are taken from at least 3 different positions by cameras to show 1) the red light, 2) the driver's face and 3) the plate number. A friend was caught that way twice, and one instance showed her holding the cell phone as she ran the red light.
I've also read that studies have shown that accidents increase at intersections with cameras, but that the severity of injuries is lower. As another poster mentioned, this is probably due to more rear-enders as opposed to T-bones.

chfields

You wouldn't have so many rear enders if people weren't following to closely. I don't run red lights and make sure I have room to stop, because I know damn well people are f*&^%ing morons. If you really want to find out just how stupid people drive...ride a motorcycle..I did delivery work on a motorcycle, spent 12 hrs a day, 6 days a week for 5 years doing that....I've had more close calls than you can ever imagine, but I have never gone down(thank the good lord above!). I know just how stupid people are and it's made me a better driver. Nothing like a motorcycle to give you perspective.......

SouthernBoy

Not sure if this is still the case here, but at one time, it was illegal to goe through an intersection on a yellow light UNLESS you have already committed to the intersection. What committed means here is if you would have to take action that might put yourself, others, or property in danger, you must not enter a yellow. This was a good theme to follow.

One of the worse things to happen in the last 30+ years was the inception of delayed green lights. This only encourages people to run an intersection since they know that they still have perhaps 1 to 3 seconds before the other side gets the green. After a while, it's like Pavlov's dog.. it becomes habit.

I deliberately ran a red light once (in 1987) because I was towing a boat and with 2600 pounds hitched behind me, there was no way I could have or was going to safely stop. I just layed on the horn and flashed my headlamps and hoped others got the message.

your_mom

Studies have also shown that municipalites reduce the yellow time by 1 second to catch more people going through the intersection. In most cases they were motivated to do this because the red light cameras were a drag on the budget - they cost more than the revenue generated with a standard yellow time. Dropping the yellow by one second increased the revenue enough that the cameras became profit centers. Google this, there's plenty of information out there.

Personally, I disagree with the cameras as they treat a symptom and not a problem. If an intersection is a problem, post a cop or three there for enforcement. Also, send out a traffic engineer - it's possible that poor intersection geometry or signal timing is contributing to the problem.

jdb8805

I would never encourage breaking the law -- but I do believe the intent behind red light cameras is not safety or law enforcement -- its money!

So get yourself some spray, a fake moustache, a hat, sunglasses and any other advantage you can think of. Why shouldn't you have all the advantages in the world? -- The law does!

jime

You need to realize that when you get a camera ticket, it is for running a red light, not a yellow one. You only get a ticket if you enter the intersection when the light has changed to red. I go through on yellow all the time.

When I get a green light I always have to wait to see if some guy is going to turn after his light is red. Where I live – Fremont, CA – we have many red light cameras and I have read studies where the number of accidents at specific intersections with red light cameras is down like 40%. I wish they were on every corner.

Once I even faked a woman into thinking that I was going to hit her by starting to move immediately on the green light. I left her sitting in the middle of a six lane street with no where to go. I hope she learned not to run red lights.

I don’t understand the thought process in hiding your license tag from the camera. Is that so that you are free to run red lights? Why do you want to endanger the rest of us? I just don’t understand.

spedstr25

Its still illegal to do this...falled failed to yield the right of way to on coming traffic.



also, to respond to the question about how is it illegal to exit an intersection after entering it legally...this could also apply to above. we've all seen busy intersections where cars end up sitting in the middle of the intersection blocking oncoming cross traffic because they didn't stop when the light was turning yellow, even though you can clearly see the traffic jam ahead...they simply move into the intersection because they think they will save a few seconds on their commute. even if that isn't illegal, it is poor driving for sure.[/QUOTE]

spedstr25

For overtime I have sat at an intersection that is notorious for red light running for ever. Been sitting there for at least 5-10 hours a week for over two years. Still have the same amount of runners as when I started. So if you post a cop there...it doesnt reduce the runners...people will always continue to run if there is that chance that the cop is not sitting around the corner..hence why the cameras help because they know it is always there.

If you think those are bad....the city I work for is the first city in the US to post Rail Crossing cameras at railroad crossings since we are in the top every year for traffic and pedestrian deaths /accidents at rail crossings. This should be an interesting experiment to see if that reduces people running those!!!

paradigm

it doesn't matter if a cop is there or not...breaking the law is breaking the law...you don't need a police officer there to make it illegal.

Black_05_TL_6SP

I have to disagree with you, this is not the same thing. When you see a traffic jam ahead and you are coming to an intersection, if you can not make it across you are to stop doesn't matter what color the light is. The left turn is different, as its not due to a traffic jam, but because of the slow nature of a left turn. You are having to start the car in motion, not slow it down. Therefore the amount of time takes longer to make the left, so you may be entering the intersection on a green, but due to the slow nature, not a stoped car, the light starts to change while in the intersection. But I do agree that it is poor driving to block on intersection, and very inconsiderate.

There are too many people out there that run reds lights and stop signs. I have had to sit at an intersection and wait while my light was green for the cars that where making a left turn to finish running the red light. I guess people feel that the extra minute they gain from it is worth there life!!?? Who knows. I have had to rush some hard yellows while towing, its hard to stop a 7700lb truck with a 4000lb trailer, so there are times when you have to make it through the yellow. We have all done it at one time or another, if we meant to or not. My grandmother went through 2 intersections one time while there where red in downtown DC. It wasn't that she was meaning to, she was trying to do to much at once and it just happened. Luckily there was no traffic!!! I almost pissed myself!!.

To the original poster, do what you can, but if you got a ticket, you did the crime. Pay it, live with it and just don't do it again. Think of it as your warning( an expensive one). In the future you won't do it again. I have been through a MAJOR wreck, I was hit head on by a drunk driver in 95 while coming back from a track meet. The other driver was going between 85-90mph and we where going 45mph. We where very fortunate to live through it, one of the people in the other car had died. To this day my wife has a metal rod in here leg because the bone was broken so bad. So believe me, the time you save running or rushing a light, is not worth the risk of what can happen. So please, be safe out there and drive smart.

avs007

Heh heh, you've never been to Los Angeles eh? If you waited at the line to make a left turn, you'd be waiting a mighty long time to make that turn. There's sort of an unwritten gentemen's agreement in LA, that everyone lets 3 cars run a red light to make a left turn.

Black_05_TL_6SP

Hence the problem. It sounds like an Engineer needs to rework the intersection, oh wait, its Cali, population grows faster then streets can keep up!!

paradigm

you misunderstood what i said then...i said "EVEN if it was legal"...i agree that it is completely illegal to enter the intersection KNOWING you are going to get stuck in the middle.

kkltam

I appreciate everyone's comments here and many valid points have been made. I agree, though, that I cut it too close this time, and probably will go ahead with paying the fine and do traffic school. What is interesting is that, as pointed out repeatly, this is not as black and white as many of you think.

It is absolutely a fact that manufacturers of these cameras are getting substantial amt of $ per ticket issued. Naturally they will want this system to issue lots of tickets. Safety may be a second thought here. It's known that both green and yellow light durations have been shortened in many instances to "catch" people by surprise. To believe that "cameras don't lie" well you may as well believe all politicians are honest. As far as whether cameras truely make intersections safer, there still seems to be a lot of controversy. Revamping busy intersections seems to be more of a safety-first intervention, rather than a money-making agenda. In most cases cameras are installed in affluent areas to, you guess it, to trap people who will pay these tickets. If they were talking about safety, don't the poor folks deserve it also?

I agree that it is our ultimate responsibility to make the roads safe by driving responsibly. We don't want to be targeted unjustly and not knowing about it would be a shame.

chfields

Thats the problem, RESPONSIBILITY, nobody wants to accept it. And those of us who do, end up paying with our lives. Until people are willing to take responsibility and drive sanely, your life is at risk every time you get in your car......

SouthernBoy

Were I a police officer, I would have a ball writing tickets for people who run stop signs, fail to issue turn signals (yes, even when changing lanes), and running red lights. For sure there are a lot of other items on my list such as failure to maintain full attention to operating a vehicle (people using cell phones, eating, farding, etc.), impeding the flow of traffic (people who pull out in front of you from a side street and fail to match the speed of other vehicles), and on and on.

I would definitely make my locale a lot of extra funds for its coffers, but I doubt I would be the most liked LEO around.

Running red lights and stop signs are right up there at the top of my list. In 1990, I hit two cars, one in February and one in December, that chose to run stop signs in front of me. The first one received a totaled car for his efforts and the second one received over $3000 in damage to a brand new car. In both cases, my 1983 Toyota Cressida was barely touched. In my opinion, they got what they deserved. The down side is that their ignorance affected me.

Just getting a ticket for running a red light is really getting off easy. At least no one or no one's property was hurt.

kkltam

Sounds like you do some unsafe things with your car too.

pettydw

I would check to see if the yellow light period on the camera light is shorter than the cities other lights. Generally, the cameras are installed by large contractors (such as Lockheed-Martin) with the stipulation that the contractor controls the light. Often the cities only receive a small portion of the ticket monies paid, the remainder going to the contractor. There are cities that have gotten rid of red light cameras due the combination of public complaints, increased accident rates, and disputes with the camera contracts. The are well publicized cases were the contractors purposely shortened the yellow light intervals to catch more "offenders". This is really nothing short of highway robbery and has done nothing to reduce accident rates per what I've read.