lowgrowl

I have been noticing lately a decline in performance even with the 93 octane (Exxon) Is there something going on with the gas??? Has anyone else been having this problem?

shooter

or maybe b/c the weather is getting colder ?

Bearcat94

I've always heard that there is a "summer" and "winter" formula/blend, but don't know if it's true or what the difference is.

1OneLove

Try Chevron

SouthernBoy

Most likely, you have a "winter" blend which may very well be an oxygenated fuel.I have noticed in the past that those types of fuel show an increase in power with an attendant reduction in fuel economy, so perhaps you particular concern involves something else.

clsdave

Increase in power? I've always noticed a very consistant 10% decrease in fuel economy and a reduction in power also. This is with three different cars, all Honda family though.

phee

iTrader: (5)

oxygenated fuel =BAD for our TL's try a different gas station and ask if the gas has MMT which is also BAD

DMZ

Try Shell V-Power. I find that gives the best throttle response and is all I use.

See www.toptiergas.com, then click on RETAILERS

darksky

Interesting link, DMZ. Too bad there isn't a website that lists various gas stations and whose gas they are using. For example, a mid-western store (Meijer) uses Total gas. Makes me curious what Walmart, Sams Club, Costco, etc. are using.

SouthernBoy

In the late 80's, I owned a 1988 Mustang LX 302CID (really fine little pocket rocket). At the time, I was living in Arlington, VA and the local stations began using oxygenated gasolines from November thru February. I started to notice a reduction in fuel economy, but an increase in felt engine output. So I checked my mileage under known and previously checked routes and found a drop of 14%. However the engine did produce a noticeable increase in power.

I attributed this to the ECU receiving increased OX content in the exhaust and compensating by increasing the fuel shot to keep the mixture from going too lean.

The same thing happens during winter with cars but for other reasons. A cubic foot of atmosphere contains a higher level of OX in the colder months than it does in the warmer months. This is one more reason why cars develop more power and get less mileage in the winter than in the summer where the reverse is the case.

JD TL-S

iTrader: (1)

Most big cities use different gas in the winter. If you live in a small town away from large cities its not a winter blend. I know from snowmobiling. We always filled up when we got Up North Wisc or U.P. Michegan.

avs007

Oxygenated gas should never give you an increase in power, because ethanol has a lower energy density than gasoline.... IIRC, federal law requires that the dispensing pump have a sticker on it identifying if it contains oxygenates. So if it's a winter blend, there should be an "E-10" or "10% Ethanol", or "Contains MTBE" sticker on the pump.


What state do you live in? One of the reasons I NEVER buy gas in Oregon (aside from not being able to pump it myself), is because Oregon has no quality control laws. Even dateline did a piece on Oregon gas many years ago.

Here in Washington State, every gas station must get regularly inspected by the Department of Weights and Measures, where they measure the pump accuracy, as well as fuel quality, and a certification sticker is placed on the pump if it passed, showing the date it was tested.

Oregon doesn't require jack. They showed that many stations had pumps that were inaccurate and always (surprise surprise) were pumping in the gas station's favor. Some stations had the 87 and 91 connected to the same holding tanks. Some stations had unusually high sediment and/or water in the tanks as well....

I know this is true, because I witnessed it first hand. One time I got 10 gallons of gas... The pump read 10 gallons, which in that car, should put my gas guage at 3/4. But it only put it barely between 1/4 and 1/2.

steve9207

Acura actually reccomends the use of a Top Teir Gas supplier. It's somewhere on OwnerLink. I found it when I first bought my TL and have used Shell almost exlusively since I got the TL in August (on occasion I've tried BP and was not impressed & even had a 2 mpg decline). I'm not sure if Shell switches to a Winter Blend formula, but if they do, I haven't noticed a difference.

avs007

I actually asked an attendent at a grocery store gas station before when the refilling truck was there... They said they buy from whoever is the cheapest.

However, even if they get their gas from say Chevron or something, that still doesn't mean you are getting "Chevron" gas. The detergent/additive packages are added to the gas when the trucks are filled, not at the refinery or whatever. That means your grocery store gas, even if they bought from Chevron, is not going to have the same detergents/additives as gas at an actual Chevron station.

avs007

You'll have to look at the pump to tell... If they did, it would be from Nov/Dec to Feb/March.... So you should be able to check next time you go....

In my experience, on every car I own, when I used oxygenated gas, my fuel economy went down significantly.

SouthernBoy

As I had reported in my post about oxygenated fuels and my '88 Mustang 302, this was back in the late 80's to early 90's. If I am not mistaken, I think they were using benzene at the time. I cannot honestly speak for today's OX fuels since I have not done any serious road testing with them and my TL. And I am certainly no expert in these areas.

lowgrowl

HaHa Did you know New Jersey and Oregon are the only two states in the country that won't let you pump you own gas. NJ claims it's too dangerous for you. I have noticed that when the mileage goes down so does performance and visa versa. I use Exxon and believe it or not the gas varies from one station to the next. I drive out of my way to goes to one that is very busy. That way the gas is fresher and I notice a difference. I just wanted to know if what I'm experiencing with the change to winter fuel ( mileage & throttle response/power decline) is normal. Please let me know.

lowgrowl

I also wouldn't be surprised with the price of oil that stations are monkeying around with the grades. Maybe 93 octane really isn't 93. I heard they can really get in trouble if they're caught, but I guess they figure chances are they won't. What can you do

jsaadein

Shell V-Power if around, if not, use BP. If neither, just fill up enough to get you to one of those. I've done a lot of research and like the guy above said, you don't want to put crap with additives in your engine like many other companies use.

Bearcat94

^^

Isn't Shell V-Power loaded with "additives" - detergents, etc.

DMZ

I'll bet that's happenning out there more than most people think, and for sure the odds of a station getting nailed for this practice are extremely slim at best.

There have been a few times where my TL doesn't seem to quite have the power it should. This sort of thing was much more noticeable with my ex-Accord, an '89 SE-i Coupe that my former Honda mechanic advanced the timing on 1½ degrees to optimally run on premuim fuel 93 instead of 87 that it was recommended for. With that car, I knew every time I screwed by a respective gas station.

I still throw in a bottle of Gumout Fuel System Ceaner every tankful of gas that runs through before an oil change keeping everything as clean as possible despite sticking to the Top Tier brands.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

i actually noticed an increase with Exxon. I averaging 430 mi. per fill up now
Before i was maxing at around the 340 mi. with others. I noticed that the Mileage estimator is constantly adjusting depending on speeds and I'm getting more trips to work without having to stop for petro

avs007

Very true... The Shell station 3 miles down the road is running 10% ethanol winter blend... The shell station just a few blocks the other way from my house is not running winter blend.

lowgrowl

How do you know that the station is not selling winter blend?

TeknoKing

All NY and NJ gas station use 10% ethanol during the cold season.

Sadly, we don't really have control over our gas, plus with the gas prices guaranteed to up to 4 bux for regular next week (cnn business money report), we are all screwed regardless.

avs007

Around here, stations are required by law to affix a sticker on the pump to disclose that the gas is oxygenated as well as what it's oxygenated with, and how much. Not sure if it's a local thing, but I'm pretty sure it's a federal mandate (could be wrong). I see those stickers in Oregon, Washington, and California.

Since washington has regular inspections, they put their own certification on the pumps, that provides another checks-n'-balances...

So in my particular case, the station 2-3 miles away has a "10% Ethanol E-10" sticker on the pumps... The one a few blocks from my house doesn't.

avs007

Around here only the metro area is required to run winter blend in the winter months. (Tho I hear that might change, because I hear Oregon passed some law requiring it year round or something). But thankfully I live across the river in another state, so even tho we are still part of the metro area (and largest suburb population wise) we have different regulations because we're in a different state.

erick3

hm...really? i get worse throttle response w/ v-power FOR SURE; chevron w/ techron!

phatbastard

Get Shell v-power or chevron 91 or 93 octane, case closed. Those are the only 2 that I have put in my car since day 1, except a road trip one time across country.

DMZ

1. V-Power on the west coast is 91 octane, 93 here in the east.
2. Chevron is not available in NY