johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

oh i see... let off the break after you start gaining momentum?

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

nevermind you said 1 second after. alright thanks ill definately try that. so do i want the anti traction on or off at the track?
i had it off and i didnt spin at all

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

do you have an automatic? thats what someone told me why i cant burnout.

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

i have a 6 spd.

my friend has a WDP 5AT that he does burnouts in too.

how long have you had the car? how many miles are on it? have you made sure to keep up with standard maintenance?

hit me up for that pulley... xiomaro@gmail.com

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

i guess i dont know how to do burnouts then.
theres neutrol drop but thats the dumbest thing ever.
then theres the e brake gas it and let it go
and putting in low with the breaks on. idk
doesnt really matter not like i have slicks or anything
and yeah i emailed you man

its an 04. used to be my brothers
and yes oil change whenever needed. he never raced it he just drove it around
i on the other hand like to make it more different then an average granny car because the tls around here are usually the elderly that drive it stock... and theres only 66k miles on it.

I hate cars

A free bit of advice is to take it out and drive it hard, not abusive but hard for a day or two and see what happens.

Dave_B

Yes, turn off the VDC. A little spin isn't a bad thing as it tends to allow the engine to get into the powerband a little quicker.

By brake-torquing, you're loading up the torque converter a bit for some extra torque at launch. It's to similiar to revving the motor to a higher launch rpm like you'd do in a manual car. The key is you don't want brake torque for an extended period of time (more an a 1 second) because many late model automatics will cut power a bit when the ECU sees you pushing the brake and the gas at the same time. With my G, the power cut is approximately 20%, but as you can see from the video, it's not too huge of a deal on the street because tire spin is overly dramatic and makes the launch really slow due to all the spin (so much for the RWD launch advantage). At the strip though, I usually barely chirp a tire assuming I line up in the "groove" (ie that rubber stripe you see in the middle of the lane, the stickest part).

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I have found that with the Honda/Acura V6's the torque converters do not respond well to a brake torque like the Nissan/infinitis do. Its actually better just to floor it with no brake torque.

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

so what am i supposed to do?

Dave_B

You should experiment next time you go to the strip. Try some runs just hammering the throttle off the line and then some runs with brake-torquing. Every car and every strip is different.

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

depending on how much mileage is on the car, you might just need to have it taken in for a tune up. treat her to some new sparkplugs and whatnot. I prolly need to do the same

I hate cars

That's the same thing I've found. Shocking the convertor is the quickest way off the line unless traction is an issue.

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

i want to try this.. what is this shocking method?

I hate cars

Don't touch the gas pedal, just have your right foot right there ready to go. When the second yellow lights, let off the brake (with your left) and stomp the gas. This will momentarily increase the torque as the convertor flashes.

lowbudgetTL

iTrader: (1)

Hey i've been lurking for awhile....


I love GN'S I had a white 86 back in the day, Ummm you can still see rubber I put down with that car.. Wow,,, my dad was mad as hell,,, Cause I smoked the darn neighborhood up LMAO

sorry to hi-jack

That burn out is legend in my town

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

oh well i was shocking that all day cause that was the only way i knew how to start off.
what about having my breaks in all the way and gas and just letting off the breaks when i go

I hate cars

LOL. Yep, they're amazingly easy to do a burnout through 3rd gear. I left a bar one time, sober, and everyone went outside to watch a burnout that I had no idea I was supposed to do. By the time I was done, the bar had disappeared.

Dave_B

If you were only 2.6 60' foots doing it that way then you've got to try my method. Even doing the method you described should still land 2.3 60 foots assuming you're not spinning. When you were at the strip, did you have any red lights? I'm almost wondering if you were crawling just enough to trip the red light, momentarily delayed, and then mashed the gas. Just that fraction second delay will absolutely kill your time since the clock starts the second you break the beam.

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

red lights?
i dont believe so.
my first time i didnt have nayone tell me when to go so i didnt know when to and went at the green light which gave me a like second of reaction time hah.
but no i dont think i over crossed it.
i was going to wait until i get my full exhaust combo but i really want to get the basics down or figure out whatim doing wrong before i go with aftermarket parts in my car

F23A4

That method worked fairly well in my old 02 Maxima....as opposed to my 07 AV6 where no method seems to facilitate a solid launch.

justinl401

phee

iTrader: (5)

automatic hondas are so inconsistent off the line. might as well get a foot rollout and do it that way

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

a foot rollout?

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

actually I find that they are very consistant or atleast mine is. I get consistant 60ft times at the track.

Dave_B

Read this thread.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/drag-racing-tips-635906/

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

so whats a realistic 60 ft time i should have and top speed and quarter mile?
i have an stock 04 tl with a short ram intake.only 66k miles on it

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

with perfect conditions you should see a 2.3 60ft and a 1/4 mile time of around 15.0 flat.

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-TL-Timeslip-7284.html
accord to this i should be getting mid high 14s to low 15s

Dave_B

Agreed.

Dave_B

Also, what I have found really odd about the 3rd gen TL 5AT is how much slower, on average, it is when compared to the tests done by the mags when the car first came out. Most every mag got 14.8s@94mph out of the 5AT 3g TLs which was very close to the numbers generated by the 2g TLS/CLS 5AT. However, on this site and from what I've witnessed at the strip, the 3g TL 5AT tends to be in the 15.1-15.3@92ish range on average with some going a few tenths faster and some going a few tenths slower. Granted, the mags correct ET/MPH to sea level conditons, but still, I would have expected the TLs to be matching mag numbers fairly consistently. When the 5AT G sedan came out in 02, the mags got 14.7-14.8@95mph out of them, but most everyone that takes their 1g G 5AT to the strip is in the 14.6-14.7 range, with many seeing 14.4-14.5@96mph. Is it possible that Acura gave the mags ringers and wanted to show that the 3g TL 5AT was on par with the outgoing model?

winstrolvtec

Don't think so, there are lots of factors but the most important thing to look at is what the manuals run in mags and in real life and simply knowing it is not possible when you look at the cars for one to be that much faster with just a 6MT, a FWD launch and 20 more whp. Since Acura's havent changed much in recent years it's pretty much all the same, there is usually around a .5 sec difference in their 5AT vs 6MT product, with almost a full second in trap to go with each tenth, give or take, best vs best.

I know a lot of you guys are track regulars so it shouldn't be hard to understand that you can run a few tenths more or less on any given day and while the car has it's limits what decides how capable it really is within those limits is the driver, not the car.

Dave_B

The manuals seem to be right in line with the mags, the autos on the otherhand, measureably slower. Yes, conditions play a roll and sometimes the track is just running that day. Regardless, on average, the 3g 5ATs seem to post significantly slower ET/MPH that what the mags have done. I've always used mag numbers as sort of the perfect condition number and that there will always be a very small select few that will exceed those numbers, which almost always attributed to a negative density altitude.

I didn't realize there is a 20whp difference between the 5AT and 6MT. Jesus. The gearing is bad enough, but the ineffiency isn't doing anyone favors either. I wonder why Honda continues to build such ill-geared and inefficent autos. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. They undergear the crap out of them when it's not needed. Sometimes I think they're a bit too focused on MPG and not class leading acceleration. Obviously the bean counters know most people find the 5AT 3g acceleration plenty strong therefore why change.

I hate cars

The short ram partially explains the low mph. You're better off with the factory intake than a short ram.

I hate cars

I can usually beat the mag times with enough practice. However it's not likely the first time with the car at the track.

I agree with you on the poor gearing of the auto. There's no reason they couldn't have made it a close ratio 4 speed with 5th as the overdrive.

However, the TL is to most people just a way to get from point A to point B in style. It's not exactly the first thing you think of when you think dragstrip terror. This is the crowd, myself included that bought the auto. The crowd that bought the manual most likely had performance in mind so I can kind of see their reasoning but again, it's a matter of "why not" make the auto's gearing a little better.

I hate cars

One thing to keep in mind is most people who take the TL to the track have never been to the track before. Most go for a couple passes and that's it. The mag guys can hot lap if they choose to and on average are better drivers than the average TL driver.

For example, look at the one guy that could really drive on this site. He went 13.9@99 in a stock minus CAI 6mt on stock tires. You know as well as I that it takes a lot of practice.

I know I'm repeating myself but if I did not go with the car club with the track rented out for the entire day my first time and blow through a tank and a half of gas, I would've gone home on a normal 2 pass night thinking my stock GN was only capable of low 16s....seriously. With making absolutely no changes to the car, just adjusting my launch, granted there's a lot more to improve upon in a turbo car, and burnout length, staging, etc, I saw timeslips gradually falling into the 14s by the 3rd run, finally that elusive 13.98 pass somewhere around the 6th run, and 3 runs later a 13.8. Same with my first 12.98 pass. I had to fight for it all night. Turned the boost up and put drag radial on and ran a 13.9 my first pass but after about 5 passes ran my first 12.

In other words, TL people, don't just go once, make it a habit and I think we'll see many more lightly modded high 13 second 6mt TLs. The auto however is a lost cause without FI or nitrous. Though I would bet money the auto will be quite a bit quicker than the manual with a turbo due to it's ability to build boost off the line, no lifting during the pass, and the tall gearing that hurt it in NA form will likely be a positive with the massive torque of the turbo.

Am I rambling yet?

Dave_B

^ I agree with all your statements including the statement about the hot air intake. It's an absolute 1/4 mile ET/MPH killer unless you've got a turbo (reasons I won't go into).

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

okay if i brake and gas to where my car doesnt move it will only go up to 2000 rpm and at 1.5 rpm it shifts to second gear giving me the slowest launch ever
if making a video will show the problems let me know.
if im the problem and not my car give me some other tips because im giving it all i got and am open to any answers and will practice

I hate cars

Thanks Dave. It's nice to be friendly again.

I suppose you're talking about pressure ratio in the turbo app.

Xanderpants

Wow... a 2.6 60'. We've all been there before. A good 60' for a fwd vehicle on street tires is a 2.0, a 1.9 is excellent.

If you've ever found yourself in the return lane staring down a timeslip of your inadequacies here are a few pointers:

Relax: Reaction time has nothing to do with your E/T. And if this is your first time at the track it is the last thing you should be thinking about. Take your time and get the steps down. Work on launching consistently, this is the greatest determining factor of achieving a lower E/T.

Lower front tire pressure (FWD only): It will soften the sidewalls of your tires slightly and give you a larger contact patch and naturally better traction off the line. I recommend 20psi for most tires.

Feather the gas and slip the clutch: Your transmission may hate you for it if you do it on a regular basis, but a few passes here and there will not cause any major problems. Find the disengagement point and hold it there. Slowly feather the gas to the desired RPMs and hold it there. Accelerate smoothly as and ease out of the clutch a millisecond AFTER you begin to go full throttle. If you do this correctly you will get a smooth launch. The key is finding the right RPM from which to launch from.

Don't drive through the box: Avoid the water at all costs, and if you do hit it spin your tires quickly to get them dry.

Do NOT attempt to burn out: It is almost pointless when driving on street tires. They are designed to resist temperature change and will not heat up like slicks are designed to.

Keep at it: Your times will likely get better as the night goes on and you start to get the hang of it. Also the more passes you make the more the track compound that will thinly coat your tires giving you a nice sticky set of tires (provided that the track is actually prepped).

Good luck ^_^

johnjohn1206

iTrader: (2)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COLD-...Q5fAccessories

do i want this?
my short ram intake obviously is not helping worth a shit but i was told my filter was good and this filter is shit?