Englishtown 7/3/10
07-02-2010, 10:31 AM
#1
All motor
Thread Starter
Englishtown 7/3/10
Anyone wanna come? I'm going to Englishtown. It starts @10 so I think I'm gonna leave around 745. Though it's supposed to be hot, I figured it shouldn't be too hot around 10-11am, so I'm goin! Who's comin with??
Hopefully I'll come back with some good news!
What's that camera that mounts to the roof? Are they cheap? I can't find my digital camera but I wanna get vids for you guys! I'm definitely gonna powershift 1 run. I'll try to be on my shifting game
Hopefully I'll come back with some good news!
What's that camera that mounts to the roof? Are they cheap? I can't find my digital camera but I wanna get vids for you guys! I'm definitely gonna powershift 1 run. I'll try to be on my shifting game
07-02-2010, 10:54 AM
#3
All motor
Thread Starter
07-02-2010, 09:32 PM
#5
You may be thinking of a gopro camera. www.gopro.com
I would check with the track to see if you can use it before you go buy one. The track I went to has a sign stating no video.
I would check with the track to see if you can use it before you go buy one. The track I went to has a sign stating no video.
07-03-2010, 07:01 AM
#7
All motor
Thread Starter
Bout to leave, 
I practiced a couple launches last night. 1 high RPM launch which consisted of me launching semi-good then shifting 2nd hard....and the clutch went wahhhhhhhhhhhh lol. Hopefully it doesn't do this @ the track!! Wish me luck fellas. Even if I don't run the best time, I'm at least hoping for 13.x. I'll be back with results in the afternoon
I practiced a couple launches last night. 1 high RPM launch which consisted of me launching semi-good then shifting 2nd hard....and the clutch went wahhhhhhhhhhhh lol. Hopefully it doesn't do this @ the track!! Wish me luck fellas. Even if I don't run the best time, I'm at least hoping for 13.x. I'll be back with results in the afternoon
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07-03-2010, 03:47 PM
#9
All motor
Thread Starter
Well, I have the results. I am exhausted and am about to take a nap ha, so I'm gonna be quick.
I had 4 runs. Car felt GREAT on the way to the track. Got there and the 1st run it felt awful. Anyway, my best run was a 14.21 @100.25 with a 2.338 60'. I'll upload the slips probably tomorrow. Last run I ran a 14.27 and missed 4th, so that would've been my 13 second run.
It was VERY hot. Idk how much it affected my times, but my car didn't feel like it does on the street. I will go back in September/October because my car is NOT a 14.2 @100 car. Oh well.
Oh, on the slips it said the temperature was 167?? Is this the 'track' temp? I didn't get that. It was probably almost 90 though. Humidity was 63% and BP 31.63.
Yea, I'm disappointed but it's whatever. When I go back in September/October that will be the real test. From prior experience, when my car feels poopy it runs 3mph slower. Could there be 3 more mph in there? I think so. It just didn't pull like it does on a cool night...expected. Oh well
I had 4 runs. Car felt GREAT on the way to the track. Got there and the 1st run it felt awful. Anyway, my best run was a 14.21 @100.25 with a 2.338 60'. I'll upload the slips probably tomorrow. Last run I ran a 14.27 and missed 4th, so that would've been my 13 second run.
It was VERY hot. Idk how much it affected my times, but my car didn't feel like it does on the street. I will go back in September/October because my car is NOT a 14.2 @100 car. Oh well.
Oh, on the slips it said the temperature was 167?? Is this the 'track' temp? I didn't get that. It was probably almost 90 though. Humidity was 63% and BP 31.63.
Yea, I'm disappointed but it's whatever. When I go back in September/October that will be the real test. From prior experience, when my car feels poopy it runs 3mph slower. Could there be 3 more mph in there? I think so. It just didn't pull like it does on a cool night...expected. Oh well
07-03-2010, 09:24 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Actually conditions weren't too terrible at E-town today. It was warm, but the pressure was high and the humidity was low. Using historical weather data from wunderground.com and this density altitude calculator http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm, DA conditions at E-town ranged from 1300' to 2000' depending on what time you ran. The hottest part of the day occured at 3pm with a temp of 88 degrees, humidity at 25%, and baro pressure at 30.1.
Correcting your 14.21@100.25 for sea level conditions ranges from 13.88@102.6mph to a 14.01@101.7mph. You simply take your ET/MPH times the correction factors here: http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/nh...on_factors.php. Don't take it as gospel though.
I can sense some disappoint and frustration. I learned years ago not to bother wasting my money and time running in hot weather. It's always disappointing. I'm certain your car will go 13s this fall at E-town. Your 60 foots are killing you though. At a bare minimum, you should be getting low 2.2s and 2.1s should be doable. Shedding .1 in the 60' will drop ET be at least .15 seconds. Your trapspeed is exactly where I thought it should be. I'm not sure why your Accord is hanging with 370Zs because lots of them are going mid 13s at 105-106mph in the heat right now. In sub sea level air this fall, I'm thinking 13.8-13.9@102-103mph for your Accord.
Correcting your 14.21@100.25 for sea level conditions ranges from 13.88@102.6mph to a 14.01@101.7mph. You simply take your ET/MPH times the correction factors here: http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/nh...on_factors.php. Don't take it as gospel though.
I can sense some disappoint and frustration. I learned years ago not to bother wasting my money and time running in hot weather. It's always disappointing. I'm certain your car will go 13s this fall at E-town. Your 60 foots are killing you though. At a bare minimum, you should be getting low 2.2s and 2.1s should be doable. Shedding .1 in the 60' will drop ET be at least .15 seconds. Your trapspeed is exactly where I thought it should be. I'm not sure why your Accord is hanging with 370Zs because lots of them are going mid 13s at 105-106mph in the heat right now. In sub sea level air this fall, I'm thinking 13.8-13.9@102-103mph for your Accord.
Last edited by Dave_B; 07-03-2010 at 09:26 PM.
07-04-2010, 01:48 AM
#11
All motor
Thread Starter
^^ You're telling me. Idk on the sheet it said the humidity was 63%. Either way it was pretty hot.
The thing that pisses me off most is that I just came back from my girlfriends house. I was like let me see the difference I feel right now compared to the track. It's probably in the upper 60s/lower 70s outside now and not humid at all. 1st and 2nd felt noticeably better and 3rd and 4th weren't even close. I timed 70-80 on my best run today and again just now and it was about a half second difference. Yes, it was in my head but it was not even close. The speedo was moving noticeable faster just now. Honestly, if it felt as slow under normal conditions on the street as the track I would be content. That is the one thing that kills me.
I guess another few months of waiting for cool air for me. Sigh......I have to disagree with you on one point Dave. I think she will see better than 13.8-9 without a doubt. I'm guessing 13.6 in the cool air. I saw 14.0 in the cool air with I/Jpipe. Only time will tell. Like I said, at night it is just a completely different feel. 4th gear actually PULLS in comparison to what it felt like earlier today. I'm just tired of my own damn excuses and just wanna see it run where it should!!!
Maybe that's why I keep up with faster cars? I really don't know. I will try to get a video against the 370 though so people don't think I'm just running my mouth and talking outta my ass.
And yes, my 60' are killing me. I was at least consistent with the 2.3, though that's not impressive. I should easily be in the low 2.2s and 2.1s as you suggested Dave. For comparison there were SRT8 Jeeps there that were trapping 96-98...1 trapped 101.4 in the morning. But there were also bikes doing 8.80s @160+
Until next time folks
The thing that pisses me off most is that I just came back from my girlfriends house. I was like let me see the difference I feel right now compared to the track. It's probably in the upper 60s/lower 70s outside now and not humid at all. 1st and 2nd felt noticeably better and 3rd and 4th weren't even close. I timed 70-80 on my best run today and again just now and it was about a half second difference. Yes, it was in my head but it was not even close. The speedo was moving noticeable faster just now. Honestly, if it felt as slow under normal conditions on the street as the track I would be content. That is the one thing that kills me.
I guess another few months of waiting for cool air for me. Sigh......I have to disagree with you on one point Dave. I think she will see better than 13.8-9 without a doubt. I'm guessing 13.6 in the cool air. I saw 14.0 in the cool air with I/Jpipe. Only time will tell. Like I said, at night it is just a completely different feel. 4th gear actually PULLS in comparison to what it felt like earlier today. I'm just tired of my own damn excuses and just wanna see it run where it should!!!
Maybe that's why I keep up with faster cars? I really don't know. I will try to get a video against the 370 though so people don't think I'm just running my mouth and talking outta my ass.
And yes, my 60' are killing me. I was at least consistent with the 2.3, though that's not impressive. I should easily be in the low 2.2s and 2.1s as you suggested Dave. For comparison there were SRT8 Jeeps there that were trapping 96-98...1 trapped 101.4 in the morning. But there were also bikes doing 8.80s @160+
Until next time folks
07-04-2010, 10:13 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
^^ You're telling me. Idk on the sheet it said the humidity was 63%. Either way it was pretty hot.
The thing that pisses me off most is that I just came back from my girlfriends house. I was like let me see the difference I feel right now compared to the track. It's probably in the upper 60s/lower 70s outside now and not humid at all. 1st and 2nd felt noticeably better and 3rd and 4th weren't even close. I timed 70-80 on my best run today and again just now and it was about a half second difference. Yes, it was in my head but it was not even close. The speedo was moving noticeable faster just now. Honestly, if it felt as slow under normal conditions on the street as the track I would be content. That is the one thing that kills me.
I guess another few months of waiting for cool air for me. Sigh......I have to disagree with you on one point Dave. I think she will see better than 13.8-9 without a doubt. I'm guessing 13.6 in the cool air. I saw 14.0 in the cool air with I/Jpipe. Only time will tell. Like I said, at night it is just a completely different feel. 4th gear actually PULLS in comparison to what it felt like earlier today. I'm just tired of my own damn excuses and just wanna see it run where it should!!!
Maybe that's why I keep up with faster cars? I really don't know. I will try to get a video against the 370 though so people don't think I'm just running my mouth and talking outta my ass.
And yes, my 60' are killing me. I was at least consistent with the 2.3, though that's not impressive. I should easily be in the low 2.2s and 2.1s as you suggested Dave. For comparison there were SRT8 Jeeps there that were trapping 96-98...1 trapped 101.4 in the morning. But there were also bikes doing 8.80s @160+
Until next time folks
The thing that pisses me off most is that I just came back from my girlfriends house. I was like let me see the difference I feel right now compared to the track. It's probably in the upper 60s/lower 70s outside now and not humid at all. 1st and 2nd felt noticeably better and 3rd and 4th weren't even close. I timed 70-80 on my best run today and again just now and it was about a half second difference. Yes, it was in my head but it was not even close. The speedo was moving noticeable faster just now. Honestly, if it felt as slow under normal conditions on the street as the track I would be content. That is the one thing that kills me.
I guess another few months of waiting for cool air for me. Sigh......I have to disagree with you on one point Dave. I think she will see better than 13.8-9 without a doubt. I'm guessing 13.6 in the cool air. I saw 14.0 in the cool air with I/Jpipe. Only time will tell. Like I said, at night it is just a completely different feel. 4th gear actually PULLS in comparison to what it felt like earlier today. I'm just tired of my own damn excuses and just wanna see it run where it should!!!
Maybe that's why I keep up with faster cars? I really don't know. I will try to get a video against the 370 though so people don't think I'm just running my mouth and talking outta my ass.
And yes, my 60' are killing me. I was at least consistent with the 2.3, though that's not impressive. I should easily be in the low 2.2s and 2.1s as you suggested Dave. For comparison there were SRT8 Jeeps there that were trapping 96-98...1 trapped 101.4 in the morning. But there were also bikes doing 8.80s @160+
Until next time folks
Don't put any faith into the conditions posted on the slip. As you can see by temp, it's far from accurate. The wunderground data comes straight from NOAA. That's about as accurate as it gets.
I'm hear ya bout temp swings and a car's performance. My G feels completely different when it's 70s compared to 90s. The reason I said don't take the correction stuff as gospel is because with my prior cars, I typically saw up to .4-.5 second and 2-3mph difference between running on a 50 degree vs running on a humid 95 degree day. However DA conditions were sea level vs 4500+ feet which is significantly worse than what you'll typically see at E-town in the middle of summer. You can thank the near sea level track for that. Also, track temp at 3 feet can be higher than what's reported for the area.
To go a 13.6 from a 14.2 is going to take a lot more than just some better air. You're going to need to get some DRs or something because you're talking about a .6-.7 drop in ET. It's either going to take another 40whp or a 1.9 60 foot.
I don't know how you're launching, but I'd suggest revving up to 5000rpms and releasing the clutch just to the point to where it's about to catch. When it's time to go, release the clutch enough to feel the car start to roll (1-2mph) and then quickly and progressively feed the gas as you release the clutch. The goal is to keep the rpms in the 3500rpm range coming off the line. You also can't get greedy with the throttle and you might not be able to go WOT until the very top of 1st. This how I launched my 2900lb 96 Maxima with 210whp/205wtq. It consistently got mid 2.1 60 foots on worn out crappy 15" Goodyear RSAs. I know it sounds like a super high launch rpm for street tires, but your 60 foots will improve dramatically once you learn how to do it. I use to launch my Maxima at 1500-2500rpms with a very quick clutch slip and it would either roast the tires or bog, consistently resulting in mid to upper 2.3 60 foots. By launching higher and not getting as greedy with the throttle, I was able to keep the car from bogging and was actually able to modulate wheel spin better.
As for keeping up with significantly faster cars, I believe your stories. I just think you're probably beating poor driving. I'd say 9 out of 10 people that have quick cars know nothing about racing. They all think they're John Force. Most every street car that shows up at the strip will run significantly slower than the norm. I've lost count on how many 13 second Vipers and Z06 and 15 second 350Zs I've seen over the years at the strip.
Last edited by Dave_B; 07-04-2010 at 10:16 AM.
07-04-2010, 12:53 PM
#14
All motor
Thread Starter
That may be the case of why I keep up with faster cars. However, I've heard some of their shifting (370z) and it was pretty quick. But either way I know my car isn't as fast as a 370.
Etown is a great track and within 150ft of sea level. When I did the DA conditions of my 14.0 run, I think my car saw 104% of its power according to one website. That was probably an additional 10whp. So, for me to run in non-optimal conditions and see similar traps I guess is feasible.
One thing I don't get is how my last run I ran a 14.27 @97.xx and missed 4th. I had a 60' within .05 of my best run, yet missed 4th and came within .06 on my ET?? Doesn't seem right.
Thanks for the tips on launching. I tried launching @4k on the street and it definitely worked. However, I then shifted 2nd and the clutch went waaaaaaaaaaahh. I really need an upgraded clutch. My 1st step is going to be the SC check valve delete, and see if that helps. I doubt it's going to do much for me at this point tho
When I launched at the track I revved to about 2500 and let the clutch out while giving a decent amount of throttle. I ended up going WOT at about 15mph when it hooked. That' s < 3K RPM, which is why I netted low 2.3 60'. With a 2.1 I'm easily in the 13s, then coupled with cooler air and I think I have a winner
My MPH changed 3-4MPH in the cooler air last time, but I'm just gonna hope to trap 103. By the time I go back I will have my 3" exhaust, so that should help as well so it won't be a direct comparison. But I will be getting dyno'd to see the gains (hopefully they will be good!!). And that's happening very soon, I promise 
Etown is a great track and within 150ft of sea level. When I did the DA conditions of my 14.0 run, I think my car saw 104% of its power according to one website. That was probably an additional 10whp. So, for me to run in non-optimal conditions and see similar traps I guess is feasible.
One thing I don't get is how my last run I ran a 14.27 @97.xx and missed 4th. I had a 60' within .05 of my best run, yet missed 4th and came within .06 on my ET?? Doesn't seem right.
Thanks for the tips on launching. I tried launching @4k on the street and it definitely worked. However, I then shifted 2nd and the clutch went waaaaaaaaaaahh. I really need an upgraded clutch. My 1st step is going to be the SC check valve delete, and see if that helps. I doubt it's going to do much for me at this point tho
When I launched at the track I revved to about 2500 and let the clutch out while giving a decent amount of throttle. I ended up going WOT at about 15mph when it hooked. That' s < 3K RPM, which is why I netted low 2.3 60'. With a 2.1 I'm easily in the 13s, then coupled with cooler air and I think I have a winner
My MPH changed 3-4MPH in the cooler air last time, but I'm just gonna hope to trap 103. By the time I go back I will have my 3" exhaust, so that should help as well so it won't be a direct comparison. But I will be getting dyno'd to see the gains (hopefully they will be good!!). And that's happening very soon, I promise
07-04-2010, 03:05 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
One thing I don't get is how my last run I ran a 14.27 @97.xx and missed 4th. I had a 60' within .05 of my best run, yet missed 4th and came within .06 on my ET?? Doesn't seem right.
Thanks for the tips on launching. I tried launching @4k on the street and it definitely worked. However, I then shifted 2nd and the clutch went waaaaaaaaaaahh. I really need an upgraded clutch. My 1st step is going to be the SC check valve delete, and see if that helps. I doubt it's going to do much for me at this point tho
When I launched at the track I revved to about 2500 and let the clutch out while giving a decent amount of throttle. I ended up going WOT at about 15mph when it hooked. That' s < 3K RPM, which is why I netted low 2.3 60'. With a 2.1 I'm easily in the 13s, then coupled with cooler air and I think I have a winner My MPH changed 3-4MPH in the cooler air last time, but I'm just gonna hope to trap 103. By the time I go back I will have my 3" exhaust, so that should help as well so it won't be a direct comparison. But I will be getting dyno'd to see the gains (hopefully they will be good!!). And that's happening very soon, I promise
Thanks for the tips on launching. I tried launching @4k on the street and it definitely worked. However, I then shifted 2nd and the clutch went waaaaaaaaaaahh. I really need an upgraded clutch. My 1st step is going to be the SC check valve delete, and see if that helps. I doubt it's going to do much for me at this point tho
When I launched at the track I revved to about 2500 and let the clutch out while giving a decent amount of throttle. I ended up going WOT at about 15mph when it hooked. That' s < 3K RPM, which is why I netted low 2.3 60'. With a 2.1 I'm easily in the 13s, then coupled with cooler air and I think I have a winner
My MPH changed 3-4MPH in the cooler air last time, but I'm just gonna hope to trap 103. By the time I go back I will have my 3" exhaust, so that should help as well so it won't be a direct comparison. But I will be getting dyno'd to see the gains (hopefully they will be good!!). And that's happening very soon, I promise I think in some stellar E-town air, you could see 104mph traps. You're car is strong. I think this also shows why I have reservations about a TL pulling 106mph in the 1/4 in 80 degree air. You're a good driver and running at a pretty decent track. Your car makes great power and has a better power to weight than said TL. If 105-106mph was the norm for bolt-on TLs, surely your strong running Accord would be at least in the 104mph range in 2000' DA conditions. Instead, it's not even cracking 101mph.
07-05-2010, 02:37 AM
#16
All motor
Thread Starter
I'm probably used to running in sea level or less conditions. That's probably why I felt my car wasn't running 100%. In the 40 degree air @ Etown, the DA might be below sea level. Maybe I get lucky and am used to running in those conditions so when my car is actually running normal, it feels slow. Sounds silly but makes sense ha.
07-05-2010, 09:44 AM
#17
When the leaves start coming off the trees and the pumpkins come out you should be running high 13's with ease with 255 RHP. Hot weather makes a huge difference in performance in Honda/Acura's......
07-05-2010, 10:23 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Most any late model higher compression (10:1+) motor suffers badly in the heat. About the only cars that don't seem to be significantly influenenced by poor DA is turbo cars since they're intake temps are already very hot and another 30-40 degrees isn't going to hurt things, especially if they've meth injection.
07-05-2010, 10:25 AM
#19
All motor
Thread Starter
Here is a video of my car in the cooler air. This is with me granny shifting. FAR from a 14.2 @100. This is why I get so frustrated when I go to the track in the summer lol. It's literally not even close.
This is on a high 60s/low 70s night with me shifting. Excuse the terrible video, it's from my cell phone cuz I can't find my digital camera
This is on a high 60s/low 70s night with me shifting. Excuse the terrible video, it's from my cell phone cuz I can't find my digital camera
Last edited by Sonnick; 07-05-2010 at 10:30 AM.
07-07-2010, 10:56 PM
#21
Under construction
iTrader: (3)
Heat and humidity FTL!
It's not even worth going during the summer bro, you'll just end up being
disappointed. Keep your head up, you've got a fast car and you'll see what she puts down in the fall
Daveb has some good launching techniques which I'm
gonna try next time! I always launched at a lower RPM..gotta try the 3-4k rpm launch hopefully that'll be our answer for some deep 13s sonnick
The video is awesome, your car flies!!
I hope zmax has some open dates for september or october. When do you think you'll be going again?
It's not even worth going during the summer bro, you'll just end up being
disappointed. Keep your head up, you've got a fast car and you'll see what she puts down in the fall
Daveb has some good launching techniques which I'm
gonna try next time! I always launched at a lower RPM..gotta try the 3-4k rpm launch
hopefully that'll be our answer for some deep 13s sonnick The video is awesome, your car flies!!
I hope zmax has some open dates for september or october. When do you think you'll be going again?
07-07-2010, 11:21 PM
#22
All motor
Thread Starter
Heat and humidity FTL!
It's not even worth going during the summer bro, you'll just end up being
disappointed. Keep your head up, you've got a fast car and you'll see what she puts down in the fall
Daveb has some good launching techniques which I'm
gonna try next time! I always launched at a lower RPM..gotta try the 3-4k rpm launch hopefully that'll be our answer for some deep 13s sonnick
The video is awesome, your car flies!!
I hope zmax has some open dates for september or october. When do you think you'll be going again?
It's not even worth going during the summer bro, you'll just end up being
disappointed. Keep your head up, you've got a fast car and you'll see what she puts down in the fall
Daveb has some good launching techniques which I'm
gonna try next time! I always launched at a lower RPM..gotta try the 3-4k rpm launch
hopefully that'll be our answer for some deep 13s sonnick The video is awesome, your car flies!!
I hope zmax has some open dates for september or october. When do you think you'll be going again?
Haha it does well for what it is on a cool night
Definitely come September/October I will be making another appearance at the track. We should meet somewhere in the middle and have a mini meet! Lol. Cecil county is in Maryland, like 3.5-4hrs from me I think. I'd go there to meet up!
07-08-2010, 09:50 AM
#23
Under construction
iTrader: (3)
Yea Dave_B has been doing it for awhile and is a great help
Haha it does well for what it is on a cool night
Definitely come September/October I will be making another appearance at the track. We should meet somewhere in the middle and have a mini meet! Lol. Cecil county is in Maryland, like 3.5-4hrs from me I think. I'd go there to meet up!
Haha it does well for what it is on a cool night
Definitely come September/October I will be making another appearance at the track. We should meet somewhere in the middle and have a mini meet! Lol. Cecil county is in Maryland, like 3.5-4hrs from me I think. I'd go there to meet up!
Is October the latest we could go? Any drag strips near 81N that w could possibly meet up at or is that pretty far from you?
07-08-2010, 11:03 AM
#24
All motor
Thread Starter
Mini meet would be awesome! If I go to visit my parents in NY during those months I'll definitely let you know. I'm going up in august but it's still hot during that time :/
Is October the latest we could go? Any drag strips near 81N that w could possibly meet up at or is that pretty far from you?
Is October the latest we could go? Any drag strips near 81N that w could possibly meet up at or is that pretty far from you?
I'm sure they have some track days in November, but it really depends on the track. I don't think they're open in < 45 degrees, but I could be wrong. Idk where 81N is lol.
07-08-2010, 11:12 AM
#25
Under construction
iTrader: (3)
Oh shit nice. NY is pretty big, where in NY are you gonna be? Yea it'll still be pretty hot. The August nights aren't so bad though.
I'm sure they have some track days in November, but it really depends on the track. I don't think they're open in < 45 degrees, but I could be wrong. Idk where 81N is lol.
I'm sure they have some track days in November, but it really depends on the track. I don't think they're open in < 45 degrees, but I could be wrong. Idk where 81N is lol.
Time will tell but I might be swinging up thru NYC for a day just to chill and stuff. I'll let you know what's up in august. How often are you in manhattan?
07-08-2010, 02:41 PM
#26
All motor
Thread Starter
Let me know tho maybe I'll take a trip in, it's only like 45 minutes.
07-13-2010, 08:13 PM
#27
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iwent to etown on the 27th of last month which was summer slam it was about 110 degrees that day i was running 14.3,14.5,14.6 i was playing with my lauch because i just got new nitto neogens which were sticking pretty good and my car was driving like shitt that day.
07-14-2010, 08:58 AM
#30
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Thread Starter
I won't be going again probably until September/October. I'm tired of going in 85+ degrees and being disappointed. I'll probably end up going 1 cool September night.
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