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So I was going to post pictures but I think describing this will do the job..
2007 Automatic Type S when fully warmed up the temperature gauge is smack dab right in the middle of C and H, the gauge needle is basically horizontal
2008 6 Speed Type S when fully warmed up the temperature gauge is between 1/4 or 1/3, for sure below half way of C and H, the gauge needle is for sure pointing downwards from horizontal
Basically the 2 temp gauges being noticeable different between the 2 cars made me ask this...think of
2007 - 3 oclock
2008 - 4 oclock
And yes both cars are reading this after 40 or more minutes running.
Last edited by jeffstlnote; Dec 30, 2020 at 09:14 PM.
the only thing that matters is if it's over heating or not...
if not overheating, then dont worry where the needles are....
if you really want to crunch the data, get you a bluetooth OBDII reader and an app that can read the data...then you'll have concrete temperatures to work with instead of "Uhh, the needles are not pointing in the same direction on two different cars"
Two possibilities (in order of probability), there are of course other possibilities as well:
Different temperature thermostats in your cars
The Automatic reads hotter due to the extra heat from the automatic transmission which is not sent into the cooling system on the car with a Manual transmission.
the only thing that matters is if it's over heating or not...
if not overheating, then dont worry where the needles are....
if you really want to crunch the data, get you a bluetooth OBDII reader and an app that can read the data...then you'll have concrete temperatures to work with instead of "Uhh, the needles are not pointing in the same direction on two different cars"
Both cars are for sure NOT overheating, I just found it interested that the 2 cars had very different noticeable temp readings after the same amount of time running. Was more of a piece of mind post (and thank you, you certainly know your stuff) I just noticed this earlier this week and it was "odd" if you will. So to inquire about the discrepancy in the readings, this seemed like the best place
Both cars are for sure NOT overheating, I just found it interested that the 2 cars had very different noticeable temp readings after the same amount of time running. Was more of a piece of mind post (and thank you, you certainly know your stuff) I just noticed this earlier this week and it was "odd" if you will. So to inquire about the discrepancy in the readings, this seemed like the best place
I believe you recently purchased at least one of the cars, so it is highly possible the original owner of one, or possibly both, replaced the thermostat with something in a different heat range compared to what Honda put in there at the factory.
The Automatic reads hotter due to the extra heat from the automatic transmission which is not sent into the cooling system on the car with a Manual transmission.
The knowledge in this community is incredible as ^ that makes complete sense. I'm not running hot, I was just curious about the obvious different visual readings between the 07 and 08. Doesn't seem to be an issue at all though!
Side note: The 2008 6MT is riding less then desirable up front. Opinions on a plan of attack? Motor mounts, ball joints, shocks/struts? My 07 really rides better, but I am in it WAY more so maybe that's a thing I dunno. 07 just hit 176,000, 08 119,300
Hell maybe even the tires? I do get a cluck noise (front pass side) pulling in and out of the driveway with wheels angled..
It's something people would just tolerate, but why am I obsessed with these 2 cars being right lol
Last edited by jeffstlnote; Dec 30, 2020 at 10:11 PM.
Well, there are way too many potential issues to list them all; but since both are Type-S cars, it is my understanding those were the only Manual and Automatic models with identical suspension settings. That being said, there are six engine and transmission mounts on the 6MT cars (three of each) and only five mounts on the Automatic cars (three engine, two tranny); so there may be some difference in feel there.
I know when I dumped about $5,000 in maintenance into my 2006 back in 2018, in addition to a new clutch, I did a lot of PM work and ended up with a MUCH smoother riding and quieter car. Off the top of my head the replaced components which MAY have improved the ride were:
Tires (went from Goodrich Comp TAs to Pirelli Cinturato P7s)
Axles (initially Duralast, which were crap, and tossed into the trash after less than a year and replaced with APWI units)
New TL owner here, my base 2008 automatic reads at the 4 o clock position after running awhile..never seen it hit middle of the gauge. So you think it must be due to a non honda OEM thermostat?
The auto trans run hotter than manual trans is a good one lmao, but NO it does not run hotter. The best way to verifying is to get a OBDII scanner with live data and read the coolant temp when it at operating temp.
If am not mistaken (recall from my head) Honda stated the operating temp for engine coolant should be
184F - 190F during moving less than 50 mph.
192F - 194F when the radiator fan kick on.
My 08 Base temp gage read lower (1-2 click less than the rest of my TL) so I take all the live data between my other TL and they were about the same when engine reaching operating temp. With that being said the temp gage should be use as a range meter (like Justin said) if you interested to see if the thermostats stuck open you will need actual temperature read out.
Yes I do own all the TL with all the trim/transmission being offered and the coolant operating temp are the same across the board despite being MT or AT.
I'm really ok with the gauge readings because both cars are by no means overheating. Could be a different thermo in the 07 giving it that slight difference. It was just odd to me.
Here's basically what I was talking about. Top picture the 07 Type S auto after a 20 mile commute to work...
Bottom picture the 08 Type S 6MT after the same 20 mile commute work...yea I need gas lol.
It doesn't seem anything to worry about, the 07's gauge never goes any higher then that...Maybe as mentioned before a replaced thermostat, I mean it does have 176,000 miles to the 08's 119,300.
You guys know that this gauge might not be really calibrated? It doesn't matter much and doesn't even say what position corresponds to what temperature. It's just "this much" hot.
In mine 08 base AT it will stay around 1/3 of the way and engine temp is just fine. If you really want to know, use scan tool and view live data. If you don't trust car's sensor (which might go bad) use IR thermometer and point at upper rad hose. At operating temp is should be relatively close to what car is seeing.
@jeffstlnote, if anything, I'd say the 6MT is running too cool.
If indeed so, implications? I know guys are getting on me for just going off the gauge though, I appreciate the patients as I am trying to learn things in the garage.. I just knew I noticed a difference in the 2 on the same trip driven. If anything to me, (and I hardly know a thing) the 07 seems right. As pretty much any car I have had before the temp gauge hovered in this "middle" temp range. I was more surprised by the 08 6MT;s reading to be honest.
wonder if the 08 TL has a thermostat that is stuck open....
Now you guys are scaring me lol (and yes that's 80% sarcasm, 20% hmm uh oh?) Let's just say BOTH gauges never go higher then pictured. Whether one is driven to work or home to St. Louis (3 hours)
Last edited by jeffstlnote; Jan 5, 2021 at 07:25 PM.
Watched a lot of videos on you tube tonight with dash video. Whether it be launches, top speed, 0 to 60 or 80 or whatever speed. Pretty much every one of them had the temp gauge where the 07's reading is (middle) so I'm wondering about the 08's cooler temp.
Just connect the scanner, read the temp, and get it over with. Computer would most likely notice the stuck thermostat and set a code, especially in colder weather, so you would have a check engine and no heat. Easy to notice, unless you have >70F all the time where you live.
Just got home from work (didn't' drive the 08), it's 33 degrees out. Car has heat after letting it idle for 5-10 minutes. I think it' just the car or the gauge. The temp gauge still tops out where the 2nd pic shows, but it's definitely blowing hot. This could just be it is what it is...
Hardly worried about the fuel, this car is driven rarely. And I doubt a 5-10 idle is going to hurt. I wanted to see if in fact a thermostat "might be stuck" If leaving this vehicle idling for 5 to 10 minutes is bad, I'm selling them both ASAP
I'm getting good heat from all the vents.
Can we agree that a fully stuck open thermostat would fail to produce any heat via the vents? I'm getting hot air, it's now 28 degrees out and the air from the vents still hot. Temp gauge reads (after a 17 minute trip to the store) exactly like picture 2. I'm simply just not nearly as concerned now, especially given the fact that I'm getting sufficient heat climate control wise. It's on the list to be looked I can assure you that. But anything failure wise I'm not seeing.
Can we agree that a fully stuck open thermostat would fail to produce any heat via the vents? I'm getting hot air, it's now 28 degrees out and the air from the vents still hot. Temp gauge reads (after a 17 minute trip to the store) exactly like picture 2. I'm simply just not nearly as concerned now, especially given the fact that I'm getting sufficient heat climate control wise. It's on the list to be looked I can assure you that. But anything failure wise I'm not seeing.
If you are getting heat I doubt it would be stuck open. With it stuck open, heat would be lukewarm and the gauge would dip lower. I'm wondering if this is due to the AT also having a cooler in front/in the radiator vs having the 6spd that needs no trans cooling. The AT does dump a lot of heat into the fluid...
Hmmm, I've had vehicles with thermostats which were stuck fully open, and yes, heat from the HVAC system is available, just not as quickly and not as hot.
Just connect the scanner, read the temp, and get it over with. Computer would most likely notice the stuck thermostat and set a code, especially in colder weather, so you would have a check engine and no heat. Easy to notice, unless you have >70F all the time where you live.
Yup it indeed threw up the check engine light on the dash this afternoon, heats warm but in comparison to the 07, not as much. Going to have my mechanic run the codes and see...but as usual ya'll told me so can always count on you guys. I'll go with this if so...
Yup it indeed threw up the check engine light on the dash this afternoon, heats warm but in comparison to the 07, not as much. Going to have my mechanic run the codes and see...but as usual ya'll told me so can always count on you guys. I'll go with this if so...
I just don't see any mention on rock or amazon of the actual thermostat coming with the gasket...but if the gasket is in fact included in boht the rock and amazon one I'm on board 100%
I'm seeing the Gates one now. You guys are awesome help. I'm gonna have my guy run the code obviously but this is the purchase (the aisin) I'm going to go with. And with the Mahle gasket to be on the safe side?
Last edited by jeffstlnote; Jan 7, 2021 at 06:40 PM.
Ugh I wish the 15 minute time limit to edit posts went away...depending on the code that gets thrown back, and I'm fairly sure we all know what it'll be. I'll be ordering this...
The aisin thermostat and the mahle gasket came today, having it done Monday. $$$ ugh lol, but I've watched a bunch of videos on youtube on this procedure and it's above my comfort level. Which is kinda funny, I work in disassembly for John Deere Reman here in town. We tear down engines all the way up to 13.5 liters. Down to the block, remove the head, rods, cam, crank, on and on. I'm ok taking things apart obviously, it's the putting it back together is the iify part I guess lol. Hopefully this will bring the temp up a tad to a normal reading and get rid of the CEL
Just connect the scanner, read the temp, and get it over with. Computer would most likely notice the stuck thermostat and set a code, especially in colder weather, so you would have a check engine and no heat. Easy to notice, unless you have >70F all the time where you live.
I take peoples opinions here VERY often, but maybe I should ALL of the time. Just got home from my mechanic with my 08 6 MT...
Codes - P0171 B1 and P0174 B2..... $25
Anyone wanna buy an Aisin thermostat? JK
Last edited by jeffstlnote; Jan 18, 2021 at 10:21 AM.
) but I think I'.m set for install Monday...
