Hi all,

I stopped driving my 04 TL March of this year with the battery disconnected but charged the battery from time to time. A week or so ago, I needed to move it, but it would not start. Just clicking noise from the solenoid. I then tried to jump it with another car and also stand alone jump starter, but same thing - click, but engine won't turn over even a bit. Anyway, I had to push it after freeing up stuck brake pads and left it at that.

I tried to start it again after a couple of days later, but this time using one of those small portable lithium ion jump starter and connected the negative alligator directly to the engine block just in case it was bad ground. It was almost able to get to get the engine to start, but just couldn't turn it over fast enough to keep it running. The jump starter used one of those hobby EC5 connector and it kind of melted it and also caused it to overload and shut down so I left it at that again.

I tried again yesterday, but this time using two 12V 100AH LiFePo4 batteries connected in parallel plus the lead acid battery in the car, but couldn't get the engine to move at all. I also removed ground cable and sanded both the connector and ground point on the body as well as connected a separate alligator directly from the battery to the engine block. My DC clamp meter can only measure up to 400AMP and it overloaded the clamp meter so it must be drawing over 400amp.

I then removed the starter motor from the engine and noticed the ring connector connected from the motor to the solenoid was loose - loose to the point I could rotate the ring connector and loosen the nut by hand. I proceeded to test the starter motor and it runs fine and feel torquey, albeit unloaded so hard to tell if it was actually good. The starter motor was replaced last year with an after market or rebuilt one and worked fine until I put the car away in March. Also when I tested the solenoid only, the motor also turn slowly. Not sure if this is normal or it's leaking current? Anyway, I put the starter motor back on and tried starting the car again, but same thing - just clicking noise from the solenoid, but engine won't turn over.

So today I decided to remove all spark plugs and poured about 1 oz of Marvel Mystery oil into each cylinder. Should I use more? Next plan is to wait a couple of days then try to rotate the engine by hand via crankshaft nut. Also, is it OK to try turning the engine over with the spark plugs and coils removed as well as fuse for fuel injector removed? I also vacuumed each cylinder to make sure they are free of dirt.

So what do you all think? Seized engine or bad starter motor? Would not running the engine for just 6 months long enough for the cylinder to rust? I'm wondering if the loose connector might have caused the motor to draw too much current and over heated? If the engine was seized in the first place, hopefully I didn't cause major scoring to the cylinder walls when I could almost get it to start.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Try to crank it by hand. It wont seize unless there was water inside.

 

I think it’s a bad starter personally

 

yes ok to rotate with plugs and fuse removed

 

Cranking the motor by hand via the 21 or 23mm (I can't remember) crank pulley bolt with the plugs removed will just make your life much easier, not trying to compress the air in the cylinders. No problem there.

Sitting for 6 months, the rings might be slightly frozen to the walls, but not seized. Probably just frozen enough for the starter to not to have enough torque to break free, but you should be able to by hand with a 1/2" wrench on the crank bolt. Once you break it free should rotate pretty smoothly after a couple revolutions I would think.

 

19mm and nothing should freeze if there was no water in the engine

If starter is good and gets good power and still can't crank the engine something is very messed up.

 

Thanks all. If it was a bad starter motor, any recommendation on which aftermarket or remanufactured one to get? RockAuto.com have several listed https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...ter+motor,4152

 

Also what is the torque value for the two bolts holding the starter motor to the engine?

 

Get Denso, it is the preferred brand. Keep the box when you get it so you can send in your old one and get some money back.


47 ft/lb for the long bolt, and 33 ft/lb for the short one. It's a pretty easy job. The hardest part for me was getting the battery tray out of the way. There should be videos on youtube to make it easier.

 

 

I'm with thoiboi - $0.02

 

Today I tried turning the engine over using a 24" long torque wrench from the crankshaft pulley through the top of the engine. Despite my effort, I could only get it to move a tiny bit. I then used an adjustable 12" wrench on the very top pulley which I believe is for the steering fluid pump with the intention of pushing on both at the same time. But to my surprise, it required very little effort to turn the engine over that way with just the adjustable wrench. Next step would be to try cranking the engine without the spark plugs/coils and fuse for injector pump removed just to see if the starter motor can do it or not.

 

Are you sure that crank pulley moved when turning the power steering pump? Belt might had slipped and that's why it was easy.

You must be missing something, as figuring out if engine can turn should be a 5 min job max.

 

That is what I thought at first too, but after looking at the pulley while turning the steering pump it definitely move too. I also had the torque wrench attached to the crank pulley and could hear the ratcheting sound as I rotate the engine by the steering pump pulley. I'm no mechanic and rarely work on my car so when I do, it usually take longer than someone with more experience. Forgot to mention that I could also hear the pistons moving and creating pressure on the aluminum tape I have covered on each spark plug ports.

 

Yeah, I'm also guessing the belt just slipped when you turned the PS pump. There will be significant resistance if you turn the crank pully by hand. You're not only moving that pully, but also both cam gears, which are under spring tension. You will feel resistance on and off as you turn that crank pully.

However, if the plugs are out, it will be easier. I'm still a bit perplexed as to why it's difficult for the engine to turn over after 6 months. Yeah, rings can get stuck, but it shouldn't be anything crazy. There are cars that have sat 30 years and have had an easier time getting the pistons to move. You already said you poured some marvel down the spark plug holes, which is good. A good soak should have freed things up relatively well.

As others have said, there is the chance water could have somehow gotten into the block, causing it to stick? Maybe unbeknownst to you, fluids were mixing, like water and coolant, or coolant and oil? Idk that may be reaching.

If i were you, i'd pour another oz of marvel into each cylinder and let it sit longer. If it's truly seized, you may need to take the valve cover off and inspect. Maybe tap on the rocker arms. Again, probably reaching here. There is likely a more simple solution.

Sorry for rambling. I just can't see how it would be that hard to turn over the engine given the facts you provided. It may be as simple as the starter if you were simply mistaken and the engine can move freely.

 

I'm with the - try starter and new battery crew first. 6 months I would not expect a modern engine to sieze if it wasn't run hot or out of oil

 

I've been rereading the first post and:

so it's not seized. Either bad starter, bad battery, or bad connection somewhere in between. Since jump pack helped, you have problem with not enough power going to the starter. (most likely, starter might get "weak")

Some of those jump starters work at 16V and will get hot since some of current will go into the battery. That's why they are often limited to 30 seconds or so. Dead / broken battery will pull small jumper's voltage down and prevent you from starting anything.

Put good battery, put old starter back (or new one if you want), and try to crank it. If no crank check if you get power at starter's solenoid.

Take the tape covering spark plug holes off, because if it gets sucked in you will have a bad day.

 

Not sure why I couldn't get the engine to turn by the crankshaft bolt, but could easily do it through the steering pump pulley. The plugs being out definitely make it a lot easier. Now that I know the rings or whatever no longer stuck, I'll try turning the engine from the crankshaft bolt again tomorrow and see if it works. Yeah, I did add more Marvel when I couldn't get it to turn by the crankshaft.

I'm just as perplexed as you as the engine ran perfectly before I put it away and I didn't do anything to it other than disconnecting the battery cable. The engine has less than 90K on it so it still pull really strong and does not make that burning oily smell when you push it at high RPM. Fluid level in reserve reservoir looks the same and I didn't smell anything funny from the engine. Like I mentioned above, starter motor was replaced last year and worked fine when I put the thing away unless it failed somehow just by sitting unused for 6 months, but it also tested fine when I took it out.

 

The lithium jump pack + plus old lead acid bat was the only time I was able to get it to almost start. Prior to that I put in a known good battery from my bro's TL but it couldn't get the engine to turn over even a little bit. Same problem using my bro's battery with a regular lead acid jump starter. Click, but engine wouldn't turn over at all. Yeah, I also thought about bad battery drawing down current from good battery so tried multiple times with and without the original battery connected too, but with the same result. So problem like you guess is either weak starter motor or stuck engine because jump pack was barely able to get it turn over just one time after multiple tries with the same jump pack.

 

How does battery cables look like? You wrote that you used block as ground when using jump pack and then it cranked but got jump pack hot. Known good battery did nothing.

Maybe they are corroded internally where you can't see so cleaning the ends didn't help.

 

Great idea by peter6 on the corrosion, sand those terminals clean with some fine grit sandpaper and clean up the starter connections too, I had an xterra that wouldn't start and I thought it was the starter so I was hammering on the starter while a friend turned the key to get it to spin since I was stuck parked at my work then just twisted the terminal even though it was already on the battery post and that got it to turnover so I sanded them down and reinstalled and never had another issue.

 

This has happened to a couple of members here on AZine. Replacement of the cable fixed their issue.

 

Good call on the battery cable. Additionally, if OP has a multimeter, he could check for voltage drop between the battery terminal and the terminal of the starter. That'd be pretty clear to see.

 

Were the front wheels in the air and/or car in neutral when you tried spinning the motor by hand? You might've been trying to move the entire car if it was still in gear

x3 on battery cables. I've seen bad negative cables cause some weirdddd electrical problems.

 

My starter failed after letting the car sit for roughly a month, I'm betting that is the issue here.

 

I ordered a brand new OEM starter. While waiting for it, I decided to take the old one apart. The motor checked out fine so I cleaned it up and put it back together.

When I received the new motor I decided not to install it, but instead ordered a new solenoid for the old motor. So today I installed the old motor with the new solenoid, but car behaved exactly the same as before - click, but engine won't turn over, not even a tiny bit. When I tried to start the engine, voltage would drop to 5-6v. At this point, I thought maybe the motor is bad so took it out then put that brand new OEM starter on. Guess what, same exact thing... the new one was only able to turn over the engine a tiny bit, like less than an inch. At this point my bro came home so we removed the battery completely and tried with just a jump starter, but same thing. We then tried rotating the engine by the crankshaft bolt again, but couldn't get it to move without also turning the power steering pump pulley at the same time. My bro suggested we remove the belt and see if it starts. After removing the belt, we noticed the alternator was completely frozen - not sure how I missed this because I did look at all the pulleys to make sure they turn freely when rotating the engine manually. Engine started right up on first crank without the belt. Anyway, we removed the alternator and got it unfrozen then put it back on and car start fine now with the old starter motor.

 

Glad it worked out for you. Way to stick with it.

 

Wow, what a rollercoaster. Hopefully you can easily return that starter. I'm honestly astonished your alternator pulley was preventing your entire motor from turning over. Awesome that it turned out to be pretty simple and your car is in good shape!

 

Completely forgot about the possibility that one of the accessories could prevent whole motor from turning.

The alternator that you got "unstuck" - prepare to get a new one, as chances are it will fail pretty soon. If the bearing was stuck, expect it to start howling.

 

Crazy story, but a good ending!!