rody084

hello,

I just went to Honda to get my oil changed on my 2006 TL (acura service dept is horrible around here) and the guy there argued with me that i should not get my oil changed until the display tells me to or at least shows 15% or less. He said there was another guy in there who had done them every 3k miles and his "I box" went haywire and Honda wont cover it under warranty since they considered it negligence on that person's part for not waiting till the indicator said to change the oil. I had thought of changing it every 3,500 miles sincei tend to sit in traffic for hours at a time. My indicator currently shows "<20%" and has been that way for about a week and a half. He said that even if they reset it, the "I box" is still going to go crazy and its going to be a huge repair... does anyone know anything about what he is talking about?

thank you in advanced for the help!

Rody

Andrew McCarthy

Sounds like a load of crap to me.

BustedJack

Your service guy is a F'ing moron. Changing it at 3000 will not hurt your car. You're basically just getting rid of old oil and putting new ones. Unless you're putting the WRONG kind of oil, things shouldn't mess up.


Don't listen to him. If you're paranoid about changing it at every 3000, then do it. I personally change mine at every 5000~7500.

DMZ

rody,

Your service guy is a total moron! You can never change the oil too often. I do mine at 5,000 mile intervals regardless of the MID and I always use synthetic.

Where RU located, and who is this dealer so those in your area can be forewarned.

rody084

im in san francisco,ca... he said that Honda wont honor your warranty on the "I box" (anyone know what that is??) if you didnt follow the oil change procedures outlined in the manual. anyone been in contact with honda about this before?

thanks!

pimpin-tl

Umm call Honda yourself. They can be sued if they won't warranty the car because you did it sooner. They have to prove it caused the problem in the first place. NEW OIL doesn't cause a problem with a engine. It's old oil that does.

JERU

I still do not understand why people just don't follow the MID. Acura has engineers and software people to account for just about everything, traffic, idle times, short trips, etc to make it a simple for people to do maintanance on their cars and oil change intervals. And every weekend mechanic seems to have a reason for doing things like using synthetic @ regular oil intervals (save your money). To each his own though, seems like people have money to burn for no good reason.

frenchnew

This shows you how much the local Honda Dealer knows about your TL.

The only problem I foresee happening is the the maintenance minder program in the computer is going to be off down the line if you reset it everytime you change the oil if you do it sooner then the minder program indicates.

The maintenance computer on the TL is programmed to pop up required maintenance for the oil according to your driving habits and has no regards to the type of oil used or it's quality. The rest of the maintenance is popping up according to time/distance used and Acura does not spell out the required maintenance in Miles inthe owner's manual.

Here is what I do suggest, change the oil when you feel it requires (3,500 miles if you like) but do not reset the MID (Maintenance Indicator) until it gets to 10% or less. Keep all you maintenance invoices and track when the new oil change will be required.

Don't forget to have the oil filter changed at every oil change even if Acura only requires to have it changed at every 2nd oil change. The oil filter on our TL is very small and it's dirt holding capacity is quite limited and I seriously question Acura decision to change it at every 2nd oil change. FYI as the oil filter accumulates dirt particles, it will become more restrictive to the flow of oil to the engine but there is a bypass valve in the circuit to let unfiltered oil circulate in the engine if the filter get's too restrictive (It's better to have unfiltered oil then no oil at all).

Best regards from Canada

frenchnew

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I have several friends who work at dealerships. I can tell you right now, don't even bother talking to service writers, and lube tech guys. 90% of them are idiots. The other 10% actually knows what they are talking about, but you won't know that for certain.

Some sophisticated oil warning systems actually analyze the clarity of the oil as it passes through a passage. Unfortunately, on the TL, it's just a reminder, a timer. You can put in new oil when it says 0%, but unless you reset it, it's going to remain at 0% and keep reminding you to change the oil. Plus it won't compensate for the type of oil, whether it be synthetic or conventional.

My brother's car has received fully synthetic oil changes at regular intervals by me. We didn't go by the scheduled maintenance program; we changed it more often than required. No problems with the computer yet. Same thing with my father's car. It has a much more sophisticated computer system than the TL, and no problems. Why? Because it's just a timer.

Don't worry about it. I have a feeling the other guy with the problem probably experienced a computer malfunction, nothing specifically related to resetting oil change reminders.

SodaLuvr

There are no oil life systems on the market that analyze the clairty of the oil. There is no need to do this in gasoline applications. Maybe in diesel where soot is an issue.

Current generation oil life monitoring systems used a pre-programmed computer algorithm that is matched to the vehicle's engine, load, driving conditions, oil temperatures, soak times, and the overall depletion of the oil's additive pack to determine the optimum oil change interval. Some of the VWs in Europe running the 506.01? approved oils now have an oil condition sensor in the oil pan that will measure something in the oil to determine oil change intervals but I can assure you that it certainly was not clarity.

And the maintenance minder system in the TL is not merely a timer that goes off every XXXX miles. Driving conditions are factored in to determine the optimum drain interval.

Also, oil type does not always make a difference. There are many situations where oil is changed not because its depleted, but due to contamination from condensation/fuel dilution due to short trips with minimal highway driving to bring the oil up to temp. In these situations (quite common), the oil is changed due to contamination and oil type would be irrelevant.

SodaLuvr

Bigger is better?

Size of the filter is irrelevant. There are plenty of Fords/GMs/DCs with pineapple sized filters that require 5000 mi drain intervals under normal service. Yet, there are many Hondas on the road today with filters capable of going 15-20K between changes and they are 1/3 the size of the other filters.

A smaller filter can easily outperform its larger counterpart when more efficient and higher capacity media is used. The quality of the media makes all the difference in the world (and amount as well, but don't get carried away) when it comes to dirt holding capacity and maintaining efficiency through a long drain...

ttliang

if this were my $$$ saving company about warranty, i'd randomly ask you questions utill you say "yes" then decline ur claim based on that. for example,


dealer: did you ever change your underware more than once a day?

customer: yes.

dealer: oh...sorry your engine failure is not covered.

tmitch2315

Suggest you get "Road Rage" or "Rets" involved in this issue. The cost of repair on the I BOX is the issue and resets might affect that unit somehow but I doubt it.

Phesto

If it was serramonte service then that the problem right there...........I stopped going there after they kept giving me trouble over my mods......I find Mike Harvey to be a slightly better service dept.

ding069

i agree. they are idiots. when i had my aspec suspension put on i handed my advisor the beta alignment specs where you put sandbags in the car to simulate weight. he looked at me and said "this would only be for a pickup truck during the winter months, never on a car"

avs007

I have some experience with this, as I went through something similar with my TL. Bottom line is that your dealer is full of it. It doesn't matter what the MID say, and they can't deny your warranty for "failing to folow the procedures outlined in the manual", because the way the manual is worded.

If you carefully read the warranty disclaimers, it says to follow the owners manual. The owners manual says to follow the maintenence guide. The maintenence guide says something to the effect that you should follow "Schedule A" or "Schedule B". Since they prefaced the text with "should", it legally means it's not required. ("Should" and "Must" have vastly different legal meanings)

Further, if you read the sections on specific maintenece, almost everything is prefixed with the words "should". IIRC, it says something to the effect of "You should replace the transmission fluid at 105,000 miles or 60,000 miles". "You should replace the oil when the MID indicates", etc.

I only brought this up with my Acura dealer, becaes they tried to void the warranty on my tranny and refused to replace it at first, because they said I didn't follow proper maintenence. (Claimed that I didn't have my car serviced regularly by the Acura dealer). Since I work with attorneys everyday as part of my job, specifically with contract/policy documents, I knew what I was talking about.

Needless to say, Acura reinstated my warranty and replaced my tranny free of charge, without much effort on my part.

And even if they tried to refute all this, I highly doubt anybody is going to view changing the oil too soon as negligent behavior. That's like saying if you don't wait till the fuel light turns on, refueling will void your warranty.

And where did this 15% figure come from? Sounds like it was pulled from where the sun don't shine....

BigB2k5

iTrader: (1)

This is funny. I have had 4 new hondas/Acuras in the past 3 years. I try to change my oil every 3k. At first they always say oh you dont need it, and Honda was the worst, they would flat out tell me No and I had to talk to a manager when I first got my Hondas, but then I got some decent service writers and they didnt both me anymore.

Its crazy, why would they care, its more money for them service wise, and I say the only way to hurt a car changing oil is when you first buy it changing it sooner then 2000 miles as it does not break in good them, after that, you can change it every week if you want, the car will only last and run better...

pimpin-tl

Soda, you are correct but a slightly larger filter does give more surface area of filtration. So it does help. bobistheoilguy.com if you want some more info on that. I personally only use the best filters from Puralator/Mobil1/K&N/Amsoil on all my cars Factory ones. I also use Amsoil for the best oil and usually go 6k miles between changes. My G35 I used a oversized filter compared to the stock ones and got back better readings from Blackstone. Same Brand filter just bigger.

frenchnew

There are physic rules that they have to respect when they do make an oil filter.

The maximum physical size of the outer shell.

Then there is the fine balance between Efficiency & Capacity.

The more efficient a filter is at trapping fine contaminants, it will require to be replaced more often.

The less efficient it is, the less it will require to be service as it will not reached the restriction limits as fast as the more efficient filter.

Keep in mind that we are talking about filters of similar size.

There is just so much filtration media that you can cram inside a given can before it gets restrictive to the flow of oil.

Oil filtration media can be broken down in 3 distinctive types;

Cellulose base - The most popular type of media in current use. Can be less eficient then synthetic type media but usually filter made with cellulose media have more capacity then one made with synthetic media (read Synthetic Media for reason).

Synthetic Media - Higher efficiency then cellulose media. It's downside that it needs the added support of dacron fibres on both side to retain the fibres together and also the use of a metallic mesh to give it the required rigidity. As such, synthetic media is thicker then cellulose media and you are more limited to the amount that you can put inside the can when compared to cellulose media.

Cellulose/Synthetic Blend - The best of both world - The high efficiency of synthetic media without the bulk and the high capacity. Not in wide use currently because of the limited market. Was mostly introduced for extended drain intervals on Highway Trucks with diesel engines.

I know for a fact that personally I would not trust the filter on my TL to last 20,000 miles as the bypass valve will have opened long before it reaches that point, specially if it has a Honda logo on it with the mention made in Canada.

The bad side of pushing an oil filter passed it's required service interval will be the circulation of unfiltered oil in your engine as there are no differential pressure indicator to warn you about it.

I only have been involved professionally with filters since 1984. so take this for it's value

bigman

Call Honda and report this guys. He is a moron.

SodaLuvr

frenchnew: I respect your involvement in the filter industry, however, until you've personallly witnessed and performed tests, and have proven Honda's recommended filter replacement to be incorrect, you cannot merely assume that the filter will reach its pressure threshold well before the recommended replacement interval. Given your experience in the filtration industry, I would've expected you to mention that all filters, regardless of brand, will be built to withstand the OEM recommended service intervals, at a very minimum.

It is true that there is a fine line between pore size, efficiency, and service life. And there are also factors beyond the control of the filter/OEM manufacturer, which are the actual driving conditions the vehicle is operated under, past vehicle maintenance history, and the type of lubricant used. For example, the initial use of synthetic oil in a very high mileage engine may drastically reduce the service life of the filter.

Lastly, while there are certainly limitations on the amount of media capable of being installed within a can, the efficiency/dirt holding capacity of the smaller filter may be (and is) more than enough for the extended service intervals. I just really want to say, how do you actually need your filter to last ??? The OEM filter, whatever you perceive is lame dirt holding capacity to be, is enough to do its job even under the worse case senario with plenty margin of error.

Pimpin-TL: I think I remember your UOA from BITOG ?? It was a 2003 G35 running Amsoil's Series 2000 0w30 oil?

The surface area of filtration goes back to my original point: a greater amount of media in a filter (in comparison to one of the same size) does not necessairly constitute a better performing filter in the filtration or service life aspect, as those two factors are also dependent on the quality of the media used.

However, the larger SDF20 filter you used in the G35 (if I'm not mistaken) gave you the better results due to the better flow properties of that particular sized Amsoil filter. As much of a perfectionist Terry is (and I commend him for that), the improvements you obtained were still minimal at best and are insignificant in the overall life of the engine.