swtnycboy

Countless threads in "Problems and Fixes" occur because a car was "driven hard". Yes, there are numerous combinations that a driver does to be considered "driving there car hard", but what are they?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Please list which threads in "problems and fixes" occur because a car was driven hard.

Because I see none.
the only ones, that are of concern are the tranny threads. IF you follow the advice given in those threads, there should not be any concern.


I use 100% of my cars performance, maybe not on a daily basis but I DO PUSH MY CAR. if taken care of, there should be no problems driving hard.

there have been multiple people on this board that track their TL. this means they push the limits of the car. Dont get me wrong, Items do wear and tear, but this is the price you pay if you push your car.

Take care of her, and she will take care of you.

swtnycboy

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-problems-fixes-117/tranny-failure-thread-566833/

That's the main one. I read other threads that were mainly about transmissions. Just got me wondering how i can optimize the life of my transmission (besides the maintenance aspect).

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

do a 3x3 drain and fill with a better fluid than the Honda Z1.
Redline racing and redline D4. Search for these terms.

Replace your 3rd and 4th pressure switches.



DO THESE 2, and you tranny will last for a long time.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/very-interesting-conversation-my-transmission-builder-tl-721508/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/racing-atf-764322/

Read these two threads. it will provide insight on the tranny. will also give your tranny a long LONG life.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Is this a trick question?

swtnycboy

Well, my main thought is relation to speed. Is going 80mph or 100mph or even 140mph considered driving the car hard? Even if you gradually accelerate to this speed?

jimmyl

100mph or 140mph is considered driving the car stupidly!!!

Ruby

on a track right? Yes that would be driving the car hard...

swtnycboy

thank you for the answer.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Think about the RPM's(revolutions per minute)
the higher in speed you go, the higher the RPMs are, the more work the engine is doing.

there was another thread on this...
different RPM ranges for different cars.

swtnycboy

I realize the RPM part but i remember doing 110mph at 4k rpms and achieved this gradually.

I was alone in my car. The interstate was flat. Straight as far as i can see. No traffic ahead of me. No oncoming traffic. Yes i realized the small bumps, my tires blowing out, animals, etc... could of made it end badly but i wanted to see what my TL can do. Yes yes, not the mature thing to do.

On a scale from 1-10 (10 being extremely harmful), how bad is 4k rpms?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I run my engine pretty hard.
i do frequent oil changes with very high HTHS rated oils.
Honda engines are meant to be revved.
we dont make maximum power till about 6500 rpm.

I'm always downshifting into a lower gear to be in the power band.

swtnycboy

That brings a chill to my body; if max power is at 6500rpm and i was at 4k doing 110mph...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

but what gear were you in?

I hate cars

The amount of power required to maintain 100mph is no more and probably less than the amount of power used to accelerate normally from a redlight. Think about it, steady state 100mph requires 1/4 or less throttle. How many times do we take off with more throttle than that?

Certain stresses increase exponentially with rpm though. Piston speed is a more accurate way of determining these stresses than rpm. A shorter stroke at a given rpm will have lower piston speeds. A J32 with it's 3.4" stroke is going to be a little happier spending all day at 6,000rpm than a J35 or J37 since the bore is not changed, only a longer stroke.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^i hate cars can you throw some pictures up to help understand

swtnycboy

i would say 5th since i was in automatic. I am in 5th gear even if i was going 50mph.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

main thing i would be worried about when driving a car hard is the axles.

mb1976

110 @4k rpm sounds a little high I mean I had taken my car at 100 and it was spinning right @3k rpm

I hate cars

Either the TCC was unlocked or it was in 4th. Mine is also around 3k clutch locked and in 5th.

swtnycboy

It was still accelerating at the time. I just got off the gas because i wanted to slow down to give myself a mile or so to slow down. I just saw 4k rpm and 110mph.

speedytypes

4000Rpm!!! really? i do that in reverse, no but really thats nothing, ive seen someone with one of these cars go as fast as the speedometer reads, I probobly hit 7000K everyday. The Vtec doesnt really seem to start untill about 5000K. Nothing at all to worry about. I driven all my previous cars like this, and never have I experienced any kind of engine failure, and i attribute this to good old fashion maintenance. I change my oil religiously. I never run anything that i dont think is the best. Right now im running Amsoil full synthetic. To be quite honest with you after i switched from Mobile 1 to Amsoil I really felt my car come alive. I use to burn off Mobile 1 where as with this I burn alot less.

I hate cars

Another way to look at it is you can make power by higher rpm and less cylinder pressure by having more but weaker power strokes over time.... or you can make power by high cylinder pressures and less power strokes over time, pick your poison. The first example could be a TL, the other could be a high boost turbo or diesel. Each one has its advantages and drawbacks in regard to wear but i'm not about to get into details from my phone.

SouthernBoy

In reality, just starting your engine and driving your car normally will cause wear and shorten its life. As a matter of fact, if you bought it then let it sit in a garage for a very long time, it would suffer. It's all a matter of degrees. Driving any car hard is going to cause more wear and shorten component life than "normal" driving. However like most things in life, this too is a trade-off. What are you willing to forgo for longevity? In other words, what cost pleasure?

Aman

x2 to what SouthernBoy said.

FWIW, I probably do more damage to my car (100% city, or rush hour stop & go) than you did to yours at 100+ mph.

SouthernBoy

The thing is, unless something unusual or catastrophic occurs, more than likely you would have sold or traded the car before failures begin to make themselves known. This assumes hard driving only and not racing or REALLY hard use. Manufacturers build in a lot of leeway with engines and drive trains because they have no control over how the vehicle is going to be used once it leaves the factory. And since they are supporting a warranty period, they don't wish to do just enough to get by. Besides, the costs are incurred by the consumer anyway, as they should be, so everyone benefits in the long run.

jpgayan

I pushed my last car, 1999 Nissan Maxima, hard all the time. 212,000 miles with the original engine, trans, and clutch. Compression check at 190,000 miles and all the cylinders were in the 150's and 160's. The key to long life, in my opinion, is waiting until the car is up to normal operating temperature before flogging it and using quality synthetic lubricants. I use Mobil 1 but the differences between brands isn't enough to pick a fight over. The important part is the full synthetics resistance to thermal breakdown under hard use. Just my two cents.

jda123

I drove a 92 accord hard every day for 400,000 miles. I would routinely hit 6K rpm every day while merging or getting out onto the highway. The engine never burned any oil and the trans was fine once I start using Dex/Merc III in it.

I got rid of the car mostly because the frame was starting to allow too much torque - even with good/new suspension parts, the car was rough our crappy midwest roads when not going 100% straight. My neighbor has a frame shop and he took it in one day and said that it was flexing 3-4x what it should, even for a high mileage 92. He said that you can wear the metal more by cornering and braking pretty hard - which I do.

I doubt that most people are harder on a car than people who use them for work. IME, take care of your car and it will be fine for 250-300K, or even more. If you want to go 500K plus, then drive it like a grandma.

nivekov

just curious, but does anyone know what happens if you dont do a 3x3 tranny flush just do the standard drain/fill? or has anyone done it?

pohljm

standard is 3x3 drain and fill
theres been plenty of people who never even checked the fluid i am sure

I agree about getting the engine to operating temp before flogging it

Netforcer

over-revving and hard, sharp steering = driving hard

jda123

1x3 = 50%ish fluid changed
3x3 = 87.5%ish fluid changed

Either is better than nothing.

nivekov

hmm would it be bad to use oem for the first 3 flushes then fill the last time with GM ?

Aman

"Over-revving"? Please define.

Acutron

I pussed out at 110 driving home from Denver today. Seems the car reaches those speeds with little effort.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Are you a six speed or 5at?

Six speeds use the GM syncromesh fluid friction modified.
you only need to drain and fill.



Automatics need to be 3x3 drain and fill with a better fluid than Honda Z1.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721508
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764322
these two links provide better information about which automatic fluid to go with and information on the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

nothing is a free ride

I hate cars

Agreed about waiting until it's up to temp (oil temp, not water). Oil can be 50x thicker and with the pump going into bypass at higher rpms it can be hard to get the required oil volume. Piston to cylinder clearance is opened up, and many anti friction/wear additives don't activate until 160F.

I've seen some studies that suggest that most wear occurs not on startup or full throttle but during the warmup process. Also seen the difference of many engines run side by side on the dyno with identical programs simulating very had street use for hundreds of hours and the difference in thicker vs thin oils is apparent.

There's one older study of a where an engine is run on a dyno and cold coolant is introduced, cold oil is introduced, and the results of too cool of oil and too cool coolant are recorded.

nivekov

thanks for the input guys! guess its the jobs a bit easier for my 6speed!