SouthernBoy

First V6 Accord was 1995 and only in an automatic.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

well, lexus's v8 r really good; its not the power rating, its the curve of power!!! the gs430 wit 300 horse can reach 60 in 6 sec wit 5000 pounds cuz its power come at low rpm... but if that kinda takes the fun out of taking the high revving v-6s of acura...

SergeyM

[QUOTE=the gs430 wit 300 horse can reach 60 in 6 sec wit 5000 pounds...[/QUOTE]

There is no way GS430 weights anything like 5,000 pounds. Otherwise it would need at least 400 hp to get to 60 in 6 sec.

sufall96

[QUOTE=SergeyM]

I agree! I think one issue of motor trend called it a 3900 lb luxo crusier and it did make to 60 in 6 flat.

Perziankabob

what? you guys forgot about the g1 legend had a v6 way before the accord. honda has been making v6 engines for awhile

TL260power

after reading everybodys post.. ask yourself this.. since everybody is saying if they put a V8 engine, if they add more luxury, add more HP, or add more TQ, etc..

Now lets say Acura does come out with this kind of car or put it in the RL lets say 2006 model would you buy it over the Lexus, BMW, or MB that its competing with? I would think lexus, bmws and MB would cost 60k.. Would you buy an RL with all those goodies i mentioned for 60k?


How many would?

SouthernBoy

To Perziankabob;

I said "Accord" specifically, not Legend or any other Honda. I haven't a clue when they first enjoyed a V6 under their hoods.

lbbrando

The engine in the 1986 legend is the same as the 95 honda v6 or when honda put in the accord. Only thing is it went from a 2.5 to 2.7.

Honda should come out with a v8 to compete with other companies.
Honda is coming out with a truck and if they don't put a v8 in it will never compete with Nissans.
Chances also if Honda does launch their truck then Acura will probally get one too, but with more power and toys.

jjsC5

I was just out with a business associate yesterday in his new Cadillac STS. He told me what other cars he considred (Audi, Infiniti, BMW etc.) He actually mentioned the new RL, and said he ruled it out because it did not have a V8.

I happen to agree with him. At 50K it needs one. And let's not forget that Acura is still in something of a "rebuilding" year. They lost a lot of ground the past few years. When you are trying to make up for lost ground, you have to do more than just match the competition. And please don't tell me about the super-duper AWD system. Most cars in that class offer both RWD with Independent suspension OR an AWD system. The typical buyer of that class of car will not care at all about the super-duper system on the RL. They will just care whether it's RWD or AWD.

HondaOnly

YES!!!!!!!!

Acura needs a V8. I don't care how good their V6s are, Acura needs a V8 and a large sedan to put it in to prove that it's a serious player in the luxury market. People shopping in this segment expect it. They're not interested in saving the environment. They want a big gas-guzzling V8 wrapped in a huge sedan the size of an S-class or LS430. People look to the flagship to see what you're capable of. Acura's flagship shows that it can make a strong V6 and put it in a car that looks like an Accord.

wizlb

JUST MORE HP.......300HP BUT 325HP V6.....32 VALUE....PLEASE LET ACURA FIND A WAY

F23A4

That's not forgotten here Perzian. And Honda's ability to engineer a new motor is not in question. What's being pointed out here is whether or not Honda will adapt themselves to a particular market within which they compete.

While the new TL is a GREAT entry into it's segment of the marketplace, it's questionable if the RL will have anywhere near that same impact in its segment. Thus, recollection of the original AV6 comes to mind. At a time when competitors (mainly the Camry but then 626) had been offering V6 motors for a few years, Honda never anticipated a V6 option for the 5G Accord when it was developed. As a result, they hurriedly rush to modify the 5G Accord's body to accomodate a recycled C27A. If they had a bit more foresight in the growing market demand for a V6 family sedan, the J30A may have made it's first appearance in the 94 Accord rather than the 98 3.0CL.

Likewise, I dont think Honda developed the new RL with a V8 motor in mind. Thus if the new RL becomes a sales disaster (like the 2G RL), Honda will be forced to scramble for marketable V8 flagship very soon into this new model's life cycle. But unlike the 95 AV6 which procured its motor from another production Honda, there's no production V8 that Honda can pull from another model. (Dare I say that they'd probably have to contract a VK45DE from Nissan or a 3UZFE from Toyota until they do develop a production V8.)

$.02

dseag2

Well, we're even then because I would never consider an STS... even if it cost $50k with a V-8, much less $60k. Regardless of how attractive it is, it's still a Cadillac.

It's unfortunate that people are so hung up on V-8's. My RL is more fun to drive than either my previous A6 4.2 or SC430. The 0-60 time is about the same, and it handles better with the lighter engine.

keyser2

Its interesting how most people here are proud that they got a good value on their TL (in its price range). Some even think their TL is comparable to a 5 series BMW.

Yet some are still disappointed that the Acura name isn't a household name to the extent that Lexus, BMW, Mercedes are or that it doesn't get the same "respect".

Acura doesn't price its TL at the point it does to help serve customers. They do it because of the TL's supply-demand curve. If Acura did get more respect, you'd also be paying more for the same car.

And as far as a V8 goes in the Acura line. How would this affect your enjoyment of the TL (unless you'd be willing to trade in your TL for one)?

F23A4

The V8 debate here is more about the RL not the TL. The TL's direct competitors are primarily 6 cylinder models (i.e.: G35, I35, ES330), to which the TL more than holds its own.

TBone2004

I would be more OK without the V-8 if the '04 TL and I am guessing future TL's, RL's - did not force me into OD. I do not like the delay to shift back down when I mash the gas...she is always shifting it seems. I know it has nothing to do with V8 vs V6, but just a comment. I think it has plenty of go for a V6 - more than most out there.

and that is coming from a guy who always was around V8's - my dad did not believe there was anything else. We would laugh in the face of a V6 -

A 4 cyclinder - what is that we'd say. V8 baby!!!

04acura tl

yes!! it would nice to smoke a gt stang the 6 is nice ut takes to long to develope the hp

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Acura needs a V8 to move further upmarket. A V8 would also be good in the next NSX. In the current line-up, a V8 is not needed. Perhaps going to an oversquare engine design like the Nissan VQ to develop more torque.

mio

honda and acura only got V6 and I4...

If TL got v8 in the future, i think TL gonna be a FR or an AWD...

05TL08

As far as acura needing a V8, I read somewhere that there are two things acura will never do, one is a V8 engine and I also have a friend inside acura who says acura is an environmental friendly auto company and a V8 engine from acura would never see the light of day.

dpilati

That is only 1 thing....

545 gets the same gas mileage as an RL. (18/26) Don't know about emissions.

260 ft lbs vs 330ft lbs - The RL weighs about 10% more.

This makes for a huge difference in thrust on demand.

Acura could do it with a V6 but it will be hard to get it as smooth as a V8

F23A4

From a corporate business standpoint, a volume production company like Honda can afford to commit to such a position given growing market demand for V8s. While the demand isnt that great right now, it has been growing for the past decade or two with Japanese automakers.

Given the current and developing technologies out there, V8 motors can be nearly (if not exactly) as environmentally friendly as V6s.

TL260power

i agree

hondas not greedy thats why no V8s

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

I prefer ACura to fix its dealer network and some quality control issues before a V-8 most of ya'll ain't going to buy. If I want a V-8, its simple, I'll go elsewhere where many have tons of experience making them.
A acura V-8 would go in the RL (I wonder if it would fit). No other cars. IN comparison, look at how BMW, Benz and Lexus and even Audi fit their V-8s in multiple cars. THe Audo 4.2 V-8 goes in the A8/A6/A4.
Acura is not trying to compete with these companies and should stay with reliable, nice cars with good gas mileage. Their lineup now is the best its been in maybe 10-15 years.

dgracer

They could get 10k more for an RL with a V8 and probably the same for a TL. Just look at what Lexus gets for a GS430 and LS430....50k and 70k respectively. The TL V8 would be 45 and the RL would be 60 and still a relative bargain. I dont know why they dont do it.

Personally, I'd just as soon see a hybrid option on both for about 5k more to boost low end , mileage and hp a little ala the Accord. I think that would be a winner and they could offer something Infiniti and Lexus and the Germans currently do not.

8-)

Don't kid yourself. Honda/Acura wants to make as much $$$ as legally and ethically possible. They're a business, right? They are as greedy as any other ethical business. Ultimately, all these decisions (v8 vs. 6, fwd vs. awd vs. rwd, etc.) are made based on what the bottom line results are projected to be. Unless you work for a non-profit, doesn't your business do the same?

Indeed, your conclusion is erroneous. If Honda thought they would make more $$$ by using a v-8 (as appropriate), they would do it.

Twenties

ABSOLUTELY .... eventually Acura will have to build a V8 RWD platform to stay competive in the performance wars.

Nissan/Infiniti changed its midsize platform to offer FWD for Maxima/Altima and RWD for g35s. Acura will need to do the same to keep up with the competition.

The only thing our v6 is missing is that deep forceful torque i've felt in some V8s. Even that is a rare feeling for a v8.

i drove a 2004 lexus 430 sc (4.3 L v8, about 300 hp/tq) and I was not impressed...felt like an average V6...i floored it .. and nothing... the V6 in our TL is much stronger and faster.

i drove a 2000 CLK 430....(4.3L v8. 275 hp/325?tq) and that thing feels like it, but the TL doesn't feel much weaker ...even though its giving away almost 100 torque. .. but the TL does feel much slower.than a CLK v..even though on paper it does 8 not llook like it is as much.

i drove a 1999 Mustang Cobra (4.6 300/300?) and that felt crazy fast and strong....not even comparable to our beloved TL's powerplant....

if Honda/Acura could make a v8 powerplant like a Mustang's...but with honda reliability.. i think that is what heaven would feel like.

i'd pay $40,000 if the TL were RWD and had a 4.6 V8 w/300 hp/300 torque.


That said, I'm really impressed with our V6. Really impressed. The exhaust reminds me of a V8. The power is effortless, like a v8.

jhan1102

I beat da HELL out of 01' Honda Accord EX V6 engine for good 3 years. I do 0-60 more than 7 times a day, and I drove this baby over 110-145mph for over non stop 3 hrs drive. I drive the car very Hard.

Let me tell you this. Honda's engine is freakin strong!!

angler67

It is all up to whether Acura wants to enter the luxury market. It holds a commanding position in the near-luxery market. Lexus, BMW, MB (even Infinity now) are the luxury market. The V8-V12 models make up the real luxury models.

Honda's expertise in 4cyl efficiency was beautifully applied to 6 cyl, and if Chevy can make a 400HP V8 for the Corvette, Honda can certainly do better. They should be able to make a 350+hp 330+ torque V8 that runs clean even without VCM and add VCM and they would create luxury capable monster that clearly upholds its efficiency standards. Add IMA and it will have a truly unique offering in the power end of the market. Clearly AWD is the way of the future and would be required to handle the power.

F23A4

invasion

neuronbob

But our J-series engine is not bad at all. It's already bulletproof in reliability. All it needs is a little more low-end torque and it'd be damn near perfect.

F23A4

...although the jury is out on whether or not the 5AT tranny is equally bulletproof.

neuronbob

The tranny is another matter altogether. Honda, get it together!

SouthernBoy

To 05TL08, F23A4, et al;

Be advised that there is nothing magical about a V6 from the standpoint that it is inherently more environmentally friendly than a V8. In fact, if anything, the opposite stands more of a chance of being the truth.

My 1988 Mustang LX 302CID (that's a 5.0 for you liter-lovers) was 4 times cleaner than my wife's 1991 Honda Accord LX. And the Ford 302 small block was a wedge head pushrod engine. The reason was simple. The Ford EEC-IV ECu was far better than Honda's ECU and 4-cylinders tend not be be quite as clean as 6's or 8's.

So there is no reason whatsoever that Honda or anyone else can't produce a V8 that will easily be as clean or cleaner than a V6. And even in the fuel economy department, 8-cylinder engines do wonders.

TLer

Definitely not. They seem to be doing an amazing job with their 6 cylinder engine so far. The cost of producing a v8 would not make any business sense as the demand for it would not even bring them close to making up the R&D costs. All they need to do is keep fine tuning the current 6 as they are in its various applications and they will keep alot of enthusiasts happy.

SouthernBoy

Hey TLer;

The one thing Acura/Honda DOES need to give some serious consideration to for the TL (and perhaps the RL as well) is to increase engine displacement in order to increase both horsepower and especially, torque. I believe the TL could use another 24 cubic inches. If Honda did this and maintained a comparable state of tune as in the current 196 cubic inch engine, the result should be something on the order of 300-305 horsepower and around 280 lb/ft of torque. This would be close to perfect for the TL in its present platform. I can't speak for the RL since I have no interest in that car and would not even consider its purchase.

F23A4

agree??

neuronbob

I agree with you. I believe the appropriate statement here is "there is no replacement for displacement" if we're interested in torque. We don't necessarily need a V8 for that.

SouthernBoy

Yeah. I just like a torquey feel through the throttle. I have to admit that the TL has superb throttle response for the size of the engine in that car. The engineers did a great job of tuning the ECU and engine to deliver the goods.

But some more displacement would be icing on the cake for me. The car's so close to being the perfect performance sedan, it would be super if they took the final few steps and finished it off. I don't even care if it stays a FWD platform.. it handles and performs so good, that being a FWD is not a factor for me with the TL.

jjsC5

Really? Then how do they justify making a V-10 for racing? I wonder what the return on investment of that puppy is.