04ABYSSTL

Got a ride in my friends Hemi Dodge Magnum RT (the wagon version). Pretty nice car and rides good. We opened it up and I must say that I wasn't overly impressed. I think the TL could stick right with if not even beat it.

That thing is extremely big and heavy so I guess some of the power goes to just moving that much mass. Interior doesn't even come close to the TL.

With the Hemi, it stickered for only $30,625 and he got it on the road for $29,000. That's definitely a lot of car for the money.

TL_6SPD

Yea dream on. That car runs 13s stock and mid 100s for trap speeds.

The TL will not touch it.

leeherman

I sat in one at the All-Chrysler Nationals in Carlisle, PA. It was a well loaded RT/HEMI/AWD with a sticker of over $35,000.

The quality and fit and finish of the interior was right up there with an '84 Hyundai Excel. I was very disappointed with the quality of the materials in the car, panels didn't fit well, and the door clattered when I closed it. The navigation screen is about 1/3 the size of the one in the 2004 TL.

A friend who's a parts guy at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership and a life-long MOPAR guy checked out my car the other night. When he closed the door, he re-opened and re-closed the door and said something to the effect of "...damn, no Chrysler door closes like that!"...meaning with a solid "thunk".

Regards,

Tecworld

If that car was free, and the TL costed 10 grand, I'd buy the TL.

NJ Aegean 03

My TLS got tangled with a 300C Hemi on the parkway in NJ, and sadly enough, he walked me with ease... and i mean with ease....

Aegir

Ramblings, here we come...

It's a station wagon. Giving it a manly name and a big engine does not change that sad fact. I guess the target market is dads who are too cool for a minivan and dislike SUV's? I guess all the hype come from the fact that station wagons aren't seen that often anymore. Here's a reminder:



Cool, huh? Appropriately, it is a big engine dodge station wagon from the '60's.

See through the hype. Magnum = station wagon + marketing.

kosh2258

The LX is speed limited to 126 here because they were too cheap to put decent rubber on them (and likely insurance rate issues too). The Euro version, basically a Magnum with 300C front clip and interior bits, is claimed to do 155. I'd have to see it before I'd believe it, however.

To me the LX is a clear case of you get what you pay for and value is in the eye of the beholder.

leeherman

There's nothing wrong with it being a wagon. I think it's cooler than the 300.

I know I have photos of a '69 or '70 Plymouth "B" body wagon in GTX or Road Runner dress...gotta find and post it. I took it at the '99 MOPAR Nationals.

Regards,

BarryH

It's a great car for the price and Chrysler should be applauded for taking a risk with both the Magnum and 300C from a styling and return to rear wheel drive perspective. The Charger, the four door sport sedan Dodge is getting in the Fall, will blow the doors off the TL in performance, especially being rear wheel drive. If they get the styling right, the car will sell as well at the 300C and Magnum which are staying on dealer's lot less time than the TL.

As for wagons, 30% of the cars sold in Europe are wagons. Because gas is expensive and the roads are tight, they don't want a SUV but do want more storage then a sedan. Wagon sales in the U.S. are up 15% YOY MTD. When gas here gets north of $2.50 a gallon and stays there, let's see how many people in the U.S. keep buying SUVs. Let's face it, unless you live on a ranch or in Wyoming, SUV's are all about ego, aspiration, and feeling "larger" than those around you. Unless ground clearance is an issue, an AWD wagon can go anywhere an SUV can.

mancur

How's the fit-and-finish??? :thumbsdn:

Makes the G35 look like a Bentley.

I think I'll take the TL.

1SICKLEX

Last time I read around here, the TL wasn't exactly the best put together car either, with falling headliners, rattles etc. The TL interior is way ahead of the Chrysler but we shouldn't EXPECT a Chysler to have a great interior.
For the money the Magnum and 300C are bargains. Wonderful American interpretations of the sedan. I love both and applaud their effort.
BTW, They sold 15,000 300Ms all last year
They have sold 40,000 300Cs so far this year.
And the 300C has been on magazine covers and has some great things said about in this month's FORTUNE (or Forbes). It is even kinda liked in Europe in the EVO test drives, for being American!

This is just a great time to be a car buyer, with all car companies improving their products.

leeherman

The TL is a bargain at $33-35K. The Chrysler products pack a lot of stuff in too for the price, but the quality isn't there. The TL is better screwed together, and with a better class of materials than the 300 and Magnum.

Sorry, but for $35K I expect a better class of materials than you'd find in a $12K Neon.

The 300/Magnum have a LOT of potential, however, they need a bit of refining to reach their full potential.

BarryH

Less than 5% of the cars sold in the U.S. are Acura's. Of that let's assume that the TL is half. The way you guys post, you'd assume that the other 97.5% of U.S. car purchasers are stupid. They're not. They have different needs, expectations, and values. Of all the car forums, this one is the most sensitive when talking about the good in -any- other marque. I had two Acura's and thought they were good cars. I'm not driving Acura's now, and you'll have to trust me on this - I'm not stupid. Based on -my- specific needs, expectations, and values, the grass was greener on the other side. That doesn't mean I still don't think Acura's are good cars.

1SICKLEX

There is no denying the materials in the TL are yes the TL will be more reliable.

Both cars are good deals for the price. Don't forget with the 300c, you get RWD (AWD offered next year) 340hp V-8, a spacious interior and "Look at me" styling. And the 420hp SRT-8 is coming next year as well.

What's weird is the TL is designed for the American market and the 300C here and the European market since it will be exported there.

04ABYSSTL

I've seen several 0-60 times of 6.3 seconds quoted for the Magnum. Like I said, I think the TL could take it.

I liked the car alot - just wasn't as fast as I thought 340 horses would be. I guess my expecations were really high. Fast nonetheless.

vtechbrain

I haven't raced one yet but I can't wait to. The truth is that the Hemi's are going to be scarce becase they get pretty pricey, the car covers a large price range. The non Hemi are slouches so those wont count. Their 3.5L has about 200 HP which is what a 4 banger honda engine makes!!! Not a bad car for (Chrystler) but I'd rather amputate my own leg than buy own.

NightRider

340HP and all. that's fine and dandy. Look at the overall picture. On a 1-5 scale for difference in performance, the HEMI is 1 or 2 compared to the TL. On the same scale for difference in gas mileage, the TL is a 5 compared to the HEMI. I would rather have a little less performance than have to fill er up after every 150 miles!

dseag2

That's because you read SELECTIVELY, 1WreckedLex.

Just got back from a 700-mile road trip in my TL, and it is definitely the most secure, planted car I've ever driven on a long trip. That includes the SC430 and GS300 w/L-tuned suspension.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but after 2700 miles I have no falling headliners, rattles or anything else to complain about.

1SICKLEX

Jeez, did you wife cheat again or something? It wasn't with me bub (in Shaggy voice). So much hostility. "What the world needs now, is love, sweet love (in Burt Bachrach voice)".

vtecracer

Seems like the number of falling headliner complaints have declined greatly. The number of quality issues in general seem to have as well. My guess is that the later vin number TL's are being put together much better. Hopefully the '05 will improve even more.

Nicki

If it was free then you should take it sell it for 20k then buy the tl for 10k and then put the other 10k in your pocket- now that would be a better move

dseag2

Funny comment from someone who told me and Xpditor to "shove our transmissions up our candy asses" a couple of weeks ago. Glad to see the lobotomy worked!

Ciao.

Road Rage

Well, lots of pleasantries in this thread.

I looked at the Magnum when I was shopping the TL, and I liked the room and the macho feel and look. It pulled hard, and it is stronger than the TL, esp with the right axle ratio. Not night and day, but that engine has some pull to it.

The quality is not there - there were obviously bad fitments, gaps were asymmetrical, one of the interior lights did not work, etc. Given D-C's quality, this car will have little resale in 2 years, and the dealer wanted sticker + market adjustment. No way.

I mean, I have an Outback, and an S2000 - a sport wagon might make sense, but I have a better sports car, and arguably a better (if smaller) wagon.

So a stylish sedan with luxo and some performance made sense for the daily commute, and steppin' out on weekends for errands and dinners. Plus, airbags galore to protect the wife and my 6 year old.

The other thing is, I saw a guy who bought one, and he looked all suburban Daddy-Dinky, but now he thought he HAD somethihng, 'cause he had a Mexican HEMI (arguable, but let give benefit of the doubt) - in toher words, he BELIEVED the marketing targets and the advertising persona invented for him. I am way too iconoclastic for that sort. In the S2000, someone may say "middle-life crisis", but anyone who knows me thinks, "car guy".

The Magnum just was not to be. It does look better than the 300C, which got old really fast. Retro often means "a bad idea reborn" it seems at D-C.

Why doesn't someone remake the Porsche 550 Spyder and be done with it - you can have the Boxster, a car that screams "sucker!" every time I see one. The S2000's design and build quality put that one to bed, no supper, no TV.

jdone

It was just on a Motorweek rerun last night. Their best 0-60 run was 6.4 seconds. Sounds to me like a TL could stick with it and a MT-TL beat it.

NJ Aegean 03

I think he's thinking of the 300C, not the Magnum.. I think the new TL would keep up if not walk a Magnum... the 300C on the other hand will walk a new TL.

"Buried to the carpet, the cast-iron 5.7-liter V-8 sounds just like Petty's old Plymouth (if it had mufflers the size of a milk truck). Posting 5.3 to 60 and 13.9 in the quarter at 102 mph, the 300C runs with Mustangs and 350Zs. It muscles right past anything approaching its size and price, including the 270-hp (and 3480-pound) Acura TL, which is good for 5.7 seconds to 60. It puts the Mercury Marauder on a hauler home to Mama."

Excerpt from C/D

leeherman

As I was explaining to a coworker who reads these threads, the TL is a compromise.

There will always be a faster or better handling or more comfortable car. The TL does everything well and at a reasonable price. The 300/Magnum have the RWD/AWD "advantage" if you want it, and the V8 is nice. However, in the same price range as the TL, it is similar in performance and comfort without being as well built or with the presumed benefit of Acura's reliability. You can count on resale value being less than impressive as a result.

Style is subjective. The TL is an attractive car, and so is the Magnum in its own way. As Road Rage pointed out "...Retro often means "a bad idea reborn" it seems at
D-C". The PT Cruiser went from selling over sticker to languishing on used car lots. Styling only goes so far, and under the 'Cruiser's styling is an unexceptional but practical sedan. The Magnum and 300 are more style over substance though much less so than the 'Cruiser, and most likely the ones that leave the factory in greatest numbers will be the RWD V6 versions, not the more impressive V8/AWD models that the car mags love.

Regards,

nypb

Hey Lee,

It looks like the Magnum finally has (another) thread of it's own. I agree completely about the interior, I sat in the Magnum at the Auto Show and was totally unimpressed by the quality of the interior materials. The dash was a long expanse of plastic, major plastic. Also, the whole V8 shutting cylinders down thing scares me, shades of the old Cadillac V8-6-4 although it can't be the same thing...

Having said that, I would still like to take one out for a spin. I have been waiting for Chrysler to return to RWD since the 70's. I'm anxiously awaiting the Charger, should be good. Now if they would only resurrect Plymouth. Hemi 'Cuda anyone?

Oh yeah and my wife thinks the Magnum looks like a hearse.

jjsC5

Do you mean all 300's, or just 300C's? I know there are a lot of 300's on rental car lots.

I was interested in a 300 C when I bought my TL, but the dealers were really proud of the 300's, and were acting like they where doing customers a favor to allow you to buy one. Awfully cocky.

TL_6SPD

C&D just tested one and it did 5.7 0-60.

Oh your right it was the 300. The magnum I am sure isn't that much slower.

leeherman

Yep, the interior thing was the basis for my opinion. The car should be fun to drive with the HEMI/AWD combo.

I think the variable displacement concept is great if Chrysler can pull it off more successfully than GM did in the '80s. Technology has greatly improved and Chrysler's reliability has improved enough that it will hopefully be successful.

All this talk about HEMIs makes me want to hop in my baby HEMI powered '69 Dart powered and fry the tires!

Regards,

Road Rage

Chrysler's system is much simpler, and completely deals with all the variables needed to make a vari-cyl work - GM did its usual 50%. Still, it is only rated 25 mpg on the hi-way, and I have seen reports that it doesn't come close. Our TL's (including my green Deep Green pearl) with only 900 miles on it gets 32 mpg at 70!

architect55

I agree, both the 300c and Magnum would be great cars...if they didn't look like a brick with 4 wheels going down the road :shakehd:

missmyprelude

I just got a kick out of this. Isn't that what it's all about - "feeling larger than those around you"? Some measure it in size (literally), others in HP/torque, others in displacement, and don't forget cost, etc. It's all the same thing.

By the way, I completely agree with you. I've been telling my wife that wagons are going to be huge for the last ten years. Unfortunately, only lately have people (and mfgs) been catching on. I hate SUVs and all they stand for and wish they'd just go away.

RWalker2

Why not ?

kosh2258

So have I. The EPA mileage cycle is unrealistic, conducted on a dyno in a closed environment and doesn't adequately compensate for environmental factors such as wind resistance and weight. General rule of thumb is that it's optimistic by as much as 30% over real world driving.

Given the .34 cd the 300 is cited as having and the weight it's lugging around (the Hemi alone exacts a 300 lb penalty over the 3.5 V6) this car would be lucky to average 15 - 17 mpg overall.

That's one example of why I've lost interest in Chrysler. They've retreated to a simpler past in their designs and technology, hiding behind the mantle of simple = reliable, which has some truth - to a point. But that simplicity - a brute force engine and large body mass for structural integrity - ,while less expensive for them to manufacture, shifts longer term operatings costs onto the customer.

The only thing sophisticated about the Hemi is the cylinder deactivation, in all other respects the engine is undistinguished. Just look around at the car magazines and compare output to displacement ratios of the various engines and you'll see that on this basis the Hemi is mediocre at best by comparison to many of the engines out there today.

Sure these cars look like a good value from an initial cost perspective, but look past that to total cost of ownership over time and that value fades rapidly. Chrysler has simply pulled a slight of hand to shift cost from their backs onto the backs of the buyer. Good for Chrysler, bad for the buyer.