kd2012

I am currently shopping for a vehicle and am having a hard time deciding between a TL and a TSX. My budget is 10,000 max. I checked out a 2004 acura TL with 147km on it(note km so its in Canada) for $9500. I also checked out an 04 tsx with the same amount of KM for $10,000. both are in pretty decent conditions. Now i understand that 04 TL's have transmission issues. How common are these issues? is it for all models? most models? or just a few? and in terms of gas how much difference is it between the two vehicles. I drive about 1500km a month. The gas prices here are about 1.37 a Litre for premium gas. how much difference in price am i looking at per month? how much KM does a TL run you guys per full tank vs a TSX? these are some questions that can help me make my decision. Thank You.

perilousp

Me being a new owner of a '04 TL I can tell you this much, if you are worried about how much you will spend on gas then maybe the TL isn't the best choice (as much as I would love to tell you to get a TL). I drive all city and at the end of the week when I fill up I use around 12L/100km driving 'normally' or 10L/100km driving like a granny. Sure I have moments where I get 8 or even 7L/100km but once I get stuck in rush hour traffic it just kills the fuel economy.

As I'm sure someone will mention a lot of people go on forums to be like "OMG MY TRANNY FAILED", while you don't see many people be like "MY TRANNY IS STILL DOING GREAT!". So it's hard to have a 'real' number for transmission issues. Either be sure to change out the 3rd and 4th switches in the tranny every 50k (miles?), or get an extended warranty on the tranny.

Acura604

2008 TL-S 3.5L 6MT

in 60% hwy
in 40% city




assuming you're doing auto?

remember..both need premium gas..is that a deal killer?

04 auto TSX would probably yield 500km mixed

04 auto TL would probably yield 450km mixed

cant comment on tranny issues...but someone with an 04 can comment on that.

DaeHanMeenGuk

If fuel consumption is your top priority, I would suggest a 4 banger tsx over a 6 cyl TL.

kd2012

thanks for the response guys. i currently drive a 2001 accord 4 cyl. i pump for $20(which gives me 16L) and i get around 130km-150km max mixed city and highway. Would the TL be around the same? The reason i don't fill up the tank is because i share the car with someone.

Acura604

$20 on TL-auto...would net you maybe 80-100km absolute maximum in the city.

splew

Your fuel consumption in a TL will vary a lot on where and how you drive.

If you drive with a heavy foot in the city, you'll probably get less than 20mpg (~12L/100km). If you drive sensibly on the highway you could get as much as 30mpg (~7.8L/100km).

I average 27mpg (8.7L/100km) in my 6MT 3.2L TL with about 65% highway and 35% city driving with speeds up to 85mph (135kph).

00h2itr

I'm not sure about Canadian car prices and so forth. However, logic would tell me you could get more/better condition car/lower mileage in the TSX.

KBB backs this up as well.

Then you have the fuel economy "concern"

truonghthe

TL hand down, TSX too rough and car has no powar when you need it (unless its a V6).

you8myrice

I'm getting 14L/100km right now in winter with all city driving usually 12 all city in summer though.
atleast premium here is 1.129 right now.

350

iTrader: (4)

I had a loner TSX, too small for me. I'm not tall and I couldn't fit in the back seat. Mileage won't be crazy different. TL looks better hands down and is much more powerful.

R_R4

I own a TSX but like the TL better. Go figure.

When looking at used 04 examples, I found 2 issues that put me off from the TL:

1) Interior Quality. -->Cracked/ aged pleather seats (the pleather in the TSXs I saw were in much better condition). Also a few creaks and rattles in the interior

2) Auto Transmission whine. I drove 8 TLs with around 140 to 150K miles. All of them had a high pitched noise when accelerating from gears 1 through 3. Then I read about the issues on this board (failures occurring at relatively low mileage too).


Reliability on the transmission was important to me as I live in an urban environment and am constantly driving between 0 and 45 mph on a regular basis (stuck in traffic alot), which stresses a trans even further.


MPG wise ---it all depends on your preference of power vs. mpg.

I've managed to get just over 900km (570 miles) to a tank of gas (I only run regular grade gas). 100% flat highway driving on cruise gets me 36 mpg on a regular basis going 70mph.

City driving only will net me 600km to a tank (if I don't pass 3K rpm). I think the TL does well with its highway MPG, but it suffers in the city mpg department because of the extra weight/V6.


Overall, if you have the budget to pay for the extra gas and potentially replacing/rebuilding the transmission, pick the TL. It's a rewarding drive and the styling is great. The interior is also much more luxurious (better materials, real aluminum trim, YUM!). But the seat wear and interior rattles disappointed on high mileage examples.


The TSX looks great too, like a mini-me version of the TL , and I love the rear 3/4 looks on the TSX along with the dual exhausts and led signal mirrors. The Euro Accord (1G TSX design) was out since 2002, fyi. People constantly think I drive a TSX when they complement my car.

I came from a 2001 RL, so I was looking to save on gas as most of my driving is in the city these days. I miss the V6 torque, but the K24 in the TSX really comes alive after 3500rpm if you fancy a little punch.

Overall, if gas was cheaper in Canada, I'd be in a TL today!


Just keep an eye on the transmission and buy the TL if you have a $10K budget, especially if you've never owned a V6 before. you only live once

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

MPGs go with a TSX
Size, speed, power go with the TL

aside from your gas concerns, what else is on your must haves??

for the TL's: the early 04's and some 05's have some tranny problems. they are not rampant, but they do exist.

the TSX: don't know about the common issues. i know i had a friend who owned one, but it became a money pit (burned oil, engine took a crap...)...she loved the car, but as she put it "i swear it's a lemon." she bought it used and she commuted 2-4 hrs a day round trip.

4drviper

why the heck is TSX more expensive than a TL? wtf.

and holy moly that's like 5.18/gal

i hated canadian premium gas price.

might as well get a J&R ECU for regular gas tune.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

^^i noticed that too.

R_R4

Yup, and back in March/April it was $5.30 a gallon for REGULAR 87 octane. It's dipped a bit now, but still!

Any 4 door car with an automatic transmission and a 4 cylinder engine is considered "gold" on the used car market, particularly in Canada, let alone a Japanese car, and a premium featured "tier 2 luxury" brand at that.

If you're on the road a lot, the price of gas is pretty central to one's purchasing decision

geekybiker

TL is a much nicer car. I didn't care for the TSX loaner that I had before. If the moderate decrease in fuel economy isn't going to be financially crippling, TL all the way.

04WDP6spd

I sometimes wish I would have gotten the TSX over the TL simply because of the cracked dash, however I've decided on just getting it reupholstered. I've only owned 4 bangers, so I also really appreciate the extra power the TL makes.

LaCostaRacer

I had the same dilemma 6 years ago when I was shopping for a new car. I initially thought TSX since it was a few thousand less and had the fold-down seat along with a better nav system at the time. I wound up with a TL because the TL has a more complete set of features and better performance. The console is nicer, the fold out map pockets are sweeter, the front seat map pockets are nicer, the audio is nicer, and so on. I also appreciate the sunroof switch that is intelligently placed near the sunroof too. The TL has been a nice car to drive for 6 years- I'm sure I would have liked the TSX as well; however, the TL is a nicer and quieter ride for a family of four.

I think the MPG concerns are over stated in some ways. If you drive in a city environment you might get a couple MPG better with the TSX. On highway drives, the TL is pretty good and may be better for people who drive 70+ MPH (like me)- I get 33 MPG doing that.

Both cars are good- I have no second thoughts on my car choice either. I even found that the rear seat access port works pretty good for the stuff I carry mostly- pipes, boards, etc. I haven't missed the fold down seat at all. Real tall things like Little Giant ladders go out the sunroof. I get a lot of use out of my TL!

Legitka9

iTrader: (1)

You cant go wrong with either but id go with the TL. They are both good cars but the TL is more powerful, more attractive and actually, I own an 04 and have had no issues with my transmission ever! 275,000 miles and still going strong!

TrustinHFDJ

Last generation TSX doesn't have 6 cylinder.

KD, both cars are separated by a fine line. Gas or Acceleration; which ever one you enjoy will make your pic.. The tsx might be more expensive; which is strange. But in the money you'll save on gas it is easily worth the exchange, in addition mods are cheaper, plus you should haggle them on the final price.. Longevity gaurenteed

I have nothing against any TL, but I do have beef with ignorant owners. Whether it be lazy, broke, or stupid, on changing fluid and failing to do so could have harsh deteriorating effects on your transmission, which falls primarily on the 04-05. On a car like the TL you really need to be on that. Any details on service? or at least where it was serviced? previous owner is a factor as well for the Acura. A great bonus, if it was a woman that car will never fail you lawl.

wareagle19o9

I just sold my 04 tsx tuesday and picked up an 04 tl. The tl has many more features and a lot more power than the tsx. Main thing I dislike about the tl is the gauge cluster. The tsx cluster looked much better in my opinion.

jonboy10

You should post this same thread in the TSX forums. Then see what they say too. These opinions are biased.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

^ True.

I owned a '99 Accord 4-Cyl Manual and always had my eye on a TSX manual. When it came time to shop I drove a bunch of TSX's and was about to pull the trigger on one when the dealer asked me if I'd considered the TL. I test drove it for kicks and giggles and fell in love with it. After looking at real world mileage of TSX and TL owners on fueleconomy.gov I realized that the mileage wasn't significantly different enough to matter. We're talking a few hundred bucks at most per year in extra fuel between the two.

That sealed the deal. At that point I started back at square one looking for manual TL in good shape. It took another couple of months but I finally found one I liked. Absolutely no regrets at this point.

The TL trannies are a bit notorious but as others have said, if you take care of them they should treat you fine. The TSX is all japanese built so supposedly it has less rattles and what not. The 04-05 had some AC issues on consumer reports with the compressor dying. Ultimately both are plenty reliable so I think your decision should be based on which you like more. The cost of ownership of both is going to be very similar.

quanaman

iTrader: (4)

Tsx is a boy's car

TL is a man's car

/thread


Jk. A 4 cyl tsx if you care about CITY gas mileage is the way to go.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

This is pretty accurate to be honest, especially when considering the 6-speed. Both for good and bad. My wife doesn't really like manuals but has always been able to learn on my other cars (at least well enough to get around in a pinch). This includes my '77 Camaro, '93 Accord and '99 Accord. But after trying the TL several times, she refuses to try to learn anymore. It's not an easy transmission to get used to. Even valets have a hard time with this car.

geekybiker

Been driving manuals all my life and the TL is easily the most difficult transmission I've had. Its better with GMFMSM in it, but still it needs a gentle touch to shift smoothly. I probably should do the check valve mod too.

R_R4

Yeah, keep thinking that. I came from an '01 RL that weighed more and is larger than the 3G TL, and the TSX feels almost as solid on the highway in terms of ride comfort/solidity. I feel like 'the' man when I carve on ramps and what not lol! The only thing it lacks is torque at low RPMs off the line. Abover 30MPH, the TSX holds its own. Between 60 and 85, this thing flies without the need for downshifting with just a tip-in of the throttle (for what it is, anyways). The MPG more than makes up for the lower torque (then again, my needs probably differ from yours). I've seen upto 42 hwy (shorter hwy runs get me 36) and regularly 28 city mpg.

I'm glad. You were smart to go for the 6spd. My family couldn't deal with a manual car though, and I needed an automatic. The MPG difference is there though. If you rev the snot out of the K24, yeah, it's no gas saver. But I get 28 city without even trying (NYC levels of traffic) and 36+ on the highway. I did a trip to Niagara Falls and beyond this summer (800 mile trip) and averaged 42 MPG (no A/C, cruise set at 63 MPH). It surprised the hell out of me! These figures were calculated by me, not a trip computer, which is almost always inaccurate. I don't have a single rattle, and I have over 150K miles on my car. My previous RL, and Integra were also built in Japan. Not a single issue out of either of them.

He did on the 1G TSX forums. He decided to go for the TSX.

I agree. TL cluster (at least the 04-05 models I saw, looked a little dated) The 07-08 gauges look nicer indeed. Enjoy the TL, hope you maintain that trans

THIS is exactly why I didn't buy a TL. Lazy/cheap previous owners who don't care about their cars. Finding a good one at this age/mileage is really tough, so why roll the dice? Nobody bothers changing timing belts either, it's really a sad case of 'pass the buck' to the next guy who owns the darn thing. ALL of the 04-05 TLs I drove had a trans whine as well.

That's impressive, but somewhat of a rarity. I know a few friends with 04 TLs and they had to get a rebuilt/replaced trans around 150 to 160K miles with regular OEM Honda/acura DW-1/Z1 fluid changes (they didn't touch the pressure switches though).

If you're doing 70% or more highway miles, it's a no-brainer, get the TL. But if you live in a congested city like me, where the trans will shift at least 100 times a day (no kidding) in heavy traffic (even on a sunday afternoon!) then it will take its toll. The K24's auto trans has a reputation of being tough as nails at high mileage (even with a lack of maintenance)

Both the J and the K motors are strong.


I live in Canada, so A/C is rarely used (maybe 2 months of the year). I'd rather have my A/C go out then a tranny (which also costs much more to buy/install, and can leave you stranded)


And I don't mean to pick on the TLs here, just want the info to be available to the OP and others making a similar decision. If someone is trying to maintain a budget, then TSX (timing chain + mpgs + auto trans is reliable). If they want to be ballerific and have torque, then TL. Consider how much mileage you put on per year too. The more miles, the more the gas difference will come into play.

RelltheSon

if your concern is gas mileage, tsx should be your pick. i have an 07 TL-s and the gas does fairly well on the highway and unless i gun it, it doesn't suck down tons of gas.

R_R4

While many may say the TSX looks like the TL, it was actually designed first for the Japanese and European markets...and the TL was designed afterward by American Acura designers, to look like the TSX.

But the main thing is driving dynamics. The TSX out handles the TL and has a much different driving experience. The car magazines, (with experts who drive and review more cars than anyone here does), picked the TSX over the TL many times in reviews and comparisons. A prime example: The TSX won Car & Driver's "10 Best Cars" award three years in a row. The TL did not. (And it was never even nominated...while the RSX and RL were.)





And here's what a fellow 3Ger had to say on the TSX forums:

geekybiker

I'm wary of reading too much into magazine reviews. They often don't have the same priorities you do. I don't think anyone would call the TL a nimble car (stock at least), which is why it won't win many awards from car and driver. If I'm going out on a twisty road to thrash my car I want something different than my everyday commute. The TSX might be a better back road burner than the TL, but the TL is far superior on the interstate. City I might call it a draw. Other than that the TL is just quieter and nicer inside with more features. Weight you own use and make a choice. Though I might say if you're buying a car primarily based on nimble handling their both sort of poor choices.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

^ That was my predicament. Do I go TSX for the better handling or TL for the better power? The handling difference between the two is somewhat significant due to lower weight and better weight distribution of the TL. But the real world handling in my test drives wasn't as dramatic as I was hoping. However, the drivetrain power differences were night and day. Ultimately it was my wife who convinced me. When I was mulling over the two she called me out - "Every car you've driven has had a 4 cylinder. You know you want a V6. Just get the TL".

Bought the TL the next day. Never looked back, except at the 2G TSX which unfortunately doesn't come in a V6 w/MT

2112ricky

You really need to know what you need, as a tsx owner i've no complaints about the car except for the common power steering issues, mine's is a 6 speed manual great gearbox car feels great good mileage but i really feel it underpowered for its size i've been wanting to sell just to buy a tl, i feel it is a more complete car like someone said on the thread it is a man's car i would really like an tl with the 6speed id even tested drived one before buying the tsx but price was too high at the time, conclusion if you are too worried about the gas mileage get the tsx it is a great car, if gas not an issue get the tl it is an even greater car (just keep in mind everything that the tsx has to offer the tl does and even more) except for the mpg

R_R4

Agreed. But the difference in handlingbetween the two was apparent to me, just as the power difference is apparent with the TL.

But I laugh when people just state "it's so slow", for whether or not someone should buy the car. I've seen other threads for this topic, and that's usually the first thing people say against TSX. Speed isn't the only thing in a car. And if that was my 1st priority, I don't think i'd get either the TL or TSX lol. TSX has some pull 3.5K+. No low end torque, but it's not like Civic slow lol.


Heck, even the 07 + Camry V6 with the 3.5 is faster in a straight line than an auto TL. Toyota V6s almost always out-torque Honda V6s every time.

The Camry's V6 is also more fuel efficient than the TL. Would that make me run out to buy one? Probably not. Not even the SE

geekybiker

Ugg. You can't get much more milquetoast than a Camry. They have all the personality of a soggy napkin. Great transportation appliance though. Ultimately we all have our reasons for buying whatever. No skin off my back if someone wants a TSX.