lakeman

Historically CR is where I went to for info on safety, value, and car problem areas. C&D was the one I trusted regarding performance, handling, fun to drive etc. I usually favored cars that C&D liked, but CR did not. (CR usually picked boring cars)
I am blown away by the fact the C&D blasted the TL for its FWD issues. IMHO the 04 TL is the most fun, best performing car I have ever owned. (I am not a racer and tend to stay under 8/10th, where the TL is great.)
I am not surprised by CR's ranking, however, because the new TL has a dual personality. When you want to hit the mountains it is a blast to drive, but it has all the things CR thinks are important, such as value, safety, reliabilty and comfort. In my younger years, when performance was all that counted, I would have not even considered the TL. While it is not a perfect car, it is a very good car that has all the qualities I want in a car.

kvan

Just this past July CU tested the 2003 G35 along with 3 other "Sport Sedans"..the Lincoln LS, Cadi CTS, and the Maxima. The G35 came in last in that group, it seems mostly due to what CU termed "tricky handling at the limits, even with stability control". Overall CU liked the car, and list it as recommended, but even the 2003 model was ranked at #11 overall for "upscale sedans". The 2003 Acura 3.2 TL type S was #9 on that list.

KV

Peters

A lot has been said about the BMW which is, in my view, the best overall handling car. But to come to the defense of the 2nd generation TL, to me it was a break through for Acura. I have owned 2 second gens, and they were very good cars and certainly different from the Accord. I was an Accord owner before those cars. The TL's were more powerful, handled better than the Accord, but were softly sprung cars compared to the '04. Now on that front, for me, the ride characterestics were very nice. Quiet, smooth with no VIBRATION. People who were opting for bigger cars with outstanding engines and could haul their family around, very much liked these cars. Heck, you could avoid buying a Van.

In real world driving the 2nd generation TL's had much better noise/vibration attributes - and I think that's where the business risk is. Its nice for enthusiasts to enjoy the car and not mind that the steering wheel is communicating the fact that you just ran over a dime on the highway and that constant feeling of the road irregularities through the chasis, never mind the poor choice of tires by Acura. But once the enthusiasts are done, will the traditional buyers of the TL like this car after driving it for 3,000 miles? Some aren't. And if the car gets any more expensive in its next generation, then it better have the handling attributes of a BMW.

I like the '04 TL. I love the engine, the NAVI and razor sharp response through the steering wheel. And its good value for money. But the ride characteristics are not ideal for me. And if the target buyer is - early 40's who's gained the ability to buy a number of different cars Acura's going to have to make sure it doesn't sell cars with flat-spotting tires and vibration problems.

danno

I still can`t understand why there has to be a comparison with the 330. Its too small. It should be compared to the A4, or IS300, not the TL.

Peters

The compare/not compare issue the BMW 3 has been discussed in detail in a couple of other threads. I agree its smaller, but when people think of spending this much money on a car, I think they look at the BMW. Pure handling performance - don't kid yourself, the BMW wins hands down.

Stewie

You guys are overlooking the fact that the 330i is EASILY 20%-25% more expensive than a comparably equiped TL.

For that you get sujectively better handling (didn't the CR story say the TL actually had better skidpad numbers?) and most importantly that BWM badge to impress your friends & neighbors.

I'm sure many people in this market can afford either car but objectively speaking, is the BMW worth that premium? Not sure but I know they'll probably sell plenty of both.

Saintor

Don't overdo it.

In a comparo of CL-S vs 330i back in 2002, both were given the same rating for handling.

Admit it; it is rare that you really exploit a car's handling more than 8-9 out of 10.

Peters

No, I don't think anybody is. That's why I own a TL. BUT, I can see why you might buy a BMW. My next choice will include it, regardless of price.

Saintor, I encourage you to drive a BMW 330i for an extended period, and see what you think. Real world handling, road feel at highway speeds, solid feel - its very good no two ways about it.

zexi

Finally the real world has spoken !!!!
TL # 1
YES ..............
And they didnt even test the 6 speed with Nav ! :p

Majorhouse

I have to agree thst the BMW is a serious driver's car. I have spent plenty of time behind the wheel of several BMW's in the past few years, and I don't think there are too many sedans out there that can offer the kind of feedback/feel that the BMWs do.

With that said, if you want similar (not exact) feel with superior luxury and more features for roughly the same (or lower) price, the TL is a clear winner.

And, if you compare the TL with it's closest competitor in terms of size and features (the 5 series), then the TL becomes an incredibly strong choice in terms of value.

Peters

You got it, well said - anybody who doesn't think so hasn't driven BMW's long enough. The TL is a much less expensive car so on the value for money scale its way up there. It aint no BMW though.

vtechbrain

If I wanted a friggin BMW I could have easily bought 2 M3's to do little donuts on the ice and snow. No, I wanted a TL because it's without a doubt a no holds barred better car!!!! Oh! the BM can handle slightly better on a tracK! Who gives a flying S--T!!!! I dont drive in tracks. And ofF the track the TL is clearly superior in power, comfort, space, audio, ammenities, and build quality. BMW is no longer king of the hill, DONE!!!!!

Peters

You're an idiot

davezaristo

I second that...his vtecbrain got issues...

¿GotJazz?

Hmmm ... THAT was subtle.

Personally, I got the TL because I missed the fun of driving my '99 BMW 323i convertible. I won't miss the maintenance nightmares and 'tude from the dealership, though.

My 323i had a lot of problems. At first, I thought that I had a lemon. After I chatted with one of the previous mechanics from the dealership, I found out that the BMW just had a lot of design problems.

This go-around, I eliminated all the German manufacturers from my hunt. The Germans manufacturers' long-term reliability just isn't up there with the Japanese manufacturers, and they are more expensive to maintain. While the Germans may have the edge in driving perfomance, the TL gets me 95% of the way there with better comfort and less long-term grief.

¿GotJazz?

Peters

Yep, the Honda engineers are pretty good. We have owned the VW Cabriolet, the New Beetle and now the Beetle Convertible. The Cab and the Beetle were riddled with problems for us anyway, particularly the Cab. The new one seems pretty good though.

USCGMoose

CR tends to be critisized because they tend to not concentrate on the features that enthusiasts crave (ie. race car performance). I think here they are right on track. The car & driver review pissed me off because they zoned in on the front wheel drive issue and wouldn't let go. They decided they didn't like the car even before they drove it. One C&D editor said the "most buyers" would be less interested in the interior comfort and radio features than the touque steer issue. I beg to differ. Since I rarely get my foot off the brake during my maddening daily commute in traffic, I am extremely pleased with the comfortable heated seats, the awesome sound system, and the overall ergonomics. Way to go CR for recognizing what is important to "most buyers".

Peters

I agree, CR provides a more "everyday" perspective. I never understood C&D's total bias with FWD. I appreciate it has some limitations, but I really like the handling characteristics of FWD for every day spirited driving. No matter what kind of car you have, if you have 270 hp on tap, you can get into trouble when you mash the gas. I kinda like having the power in the front, you immediately can tell when the wheels are giving way.

gregory28

The Consumer Reports Review is extremely satisfying because it is THE most respected reviewer of cars. The reason is because they accept no advertising. I realize some enthusiasts disagree, but this is indisputable folks.

How can more credence be given to Car & Driver writers who's magazine accepts lots of money from BMW and other automobile manufacturers? The owners and reviewers of these other publicatons are wined and dined and given new cars to buzz around in. Consumer Reports buys it's test cars anonymously.

I'm picking on C&D because they had the only negative review I read. In fact, C&D had the only review that wasn't extremely positive! I read at least 15 reviews from different sources many of which have links in one of the many threads here.

CR rated the TL #1 in a field of 15 "near luxury" sedans. Two months ago CR rated Acura the #1 manufacturer of cars. 4% points ahead of Lexus and Toyota.

Yep, we all own a great car that will hold it's value well.

Nickerz

Damn!

The hell with the BMW, G35 wars!

Did anyone notice the 6.7 second time CR got out of the auto TL? Well, I did and I hope this isn't the official time of the car for 0-60mph (not to mention the 1/4 mile @ 15.2 seconds)!

Those times just seem slower than what I've heard and read from other sources and I don't know if I trust CR's testing as they seem to have very conservative times all around.

I hope it's faster than 6.7 seconds which would mean the G35 Auto is faster than the TL auto and the freakin' Accord (MT not auto) is the same 0-60 time! What!?

How can the auto TL be a full second slower than the MT TL?

rets

I think ppl can compare TL with any "similar" car. You may think 330 is too small to compete with TL. And, some ppl may think 330 is too expensive to compare with bargain TL.

IMO, I would believe 330 and TL are in the very-close category/level. That's why most of magazine would put them together to compete to each other.

rets

Its reputation is really impressive. You're right. So is its driving ability. When sitting inside, I really feel this car is part of my whole body. The way to drive it is as the way you move your body. (only 3 series)

If I live in somewhere without heavy traffic everyday, I'd really consider that car, and believe it's worth of each penny I've spent.



But I still think I spent wisely to 04TL this time.

Z Factor

partagas

Rets, my 330i has identical driver compartment room with my TL. The overall width of the car is the main difference, 21/2 inches. The rear seat leg room is about 11/2 inches less. The G35 is more cramped for the driver. Now, I agree, infact, I have been the advocate here that they are very different cars. The 330i aqims right at sport with minimal luxury and the TL is a sporty luxury car with a slightly biger interior. But, they will certainly poach one another's customers so we will always see the comparison. I just jump down our guys throats when they post nonsense comparisons without actually testing the hell out of the cars they are talking about.

BTW that 21/2 " width and 11/2" of leg room is very important to me because I am continually taking fat folk to lunch andt that is critical room.

gregory28

0-60 times have many factors involved; wind, road surface, driver, etc. I've read 6.0 to 6.3 from other sources for the 5AT. 5.7 for the 6 speed.

Formula 350

Nickerz,

You must not know about CR. They test all of their cars like what NORMAL people would drive. That means accelerations are from a standing start with the engine at IDLE. Most magazines will do various tricks to get their BEST time to report. If you look at the RX8, the best time is with a clutch drop at 8,000 RPM. Most people will not do this to thier own car.

You can look at this time as the LEAST that the car can do, not the most.

partagas

Greg, are you familiar with the term RTFM? Well, before you get all worked up about a CR (non-performance) review, do some homework. I can show you Type S reviews from 6.1 to 7.5 and G35s from 6.3 to 7.5. C&D got 5.7 for the 6mt. You can bet that the auto will be about 6.2. The Type S did 14.9 quarters, therefore, the 04 wii do 14.8 or so. Relax. CR also got rotten times from Infiniti and BMW.

vtechbrain

And you are a ****, but who asked you for a personality opinion anyway?????:thefinger :thefinger

vtechbrain

I wouldn't want to forget you too!!!:thefinger :thefinger

vtechbrain

Darn, the first one got bleeped out!
You're a phallus.

Hybrid

CR has conservative 0-60 times because they don't abuse the cars to do the test. For an automatic, they start from idle and floor it. Just like an owner (vs. borrower or renter) who wasn't interested in damaging the transmission or driveline. Their time could easily be 1/2 sec. slower than other magazine tests. So, in my opinion, CR's times are "real world" vs. the magazines dragstrip times.

Why does it really matter what a published number is? Isn't it the real capability of the car, as driven by us, that matters, rather than a number on paper? It sounds like some people are satisfied with the power level until a magazine publishes a number, then they're no longer satisfied. No matter what car you buy, there's going to be something out there with better numbers.

Ken1997TL

I've been reading CR since I was 5. No joke. I find their articles (on cars at least) to be dead on. Realize that for every "enthusiast driver" for the TL, there are 50 who drive like they are carrying a bunch of eggs in the back seat.

For you guys who have family/loved ones.. do you drive like you are in a drag race? I didn't think so.

CR does their tests like a CONSUMER would like, not how some redneck with a '78 Camaro with a small penis drives.

Comfort, reliability, cost of operation, ease of use etc.... these are what interest 95% of car buyers. Your average Acura/Honda buyer goes to Edmunds and CR for their info, not Honda Tuning or Pep Boyz (thank god).

jshih57

This is from the 2/04 CR. I have the 2 pg article scanned, including comparison charts, which TL came out on top in virtually every catagory. PM me if anyone wants a copy.

Habiib_Dahli

Boy isn't it amazing that Consumer Reports?? is now the Automotive Authority. I could have sworn that just about everywhere I've read online, people swore up and down that "...I've always like C/D better...", "..Car and Driver always gets it right...", blah blah blah. Now C/D doesn't know what they are talking about, they are biased, etc.

All in all I do somewhat agree with CR ratings. Except I would have ranked it:
1)TL
2)330
3)G35
....

I won't say that the TL is the better value in that segment either. Similarly equipped, the TL and G35 are very close in price, but I give the edge to TL due to getter interior (which is what a luxury car is suppose to have), and its styling. Bluetooth, and voice Nav are nice extras too!

To those of you claiming that most people who buy the TL could care less about peformance, handling, etc. need to quit fooling yourselves. If thats the case, why did Acura give the TL 270HP, sport tuned supsension. brembo brakes, etc. I think you should remind Acura of that. According to their future plans, they are about to pull an Infiniti. They want the company to have a "Sporty" image from now on.

Peters

Gotta stop living by 0-60 times. There's a lot more to the car(s) than that. The TL is fast enough.

Monte TLS,MAX

Well that sounds right judging by what the got for the automatic Maxima and G35 a few months ago, they got 6.8 to 60 for both. So 6.7 sounds about right for a C/R test.

BLEXV6

I subscribe to CR and think its a great magazine. The main thing they are worried about is a reliable and well priced vehicle that is well constructed and appointed with the necessary options. Thats why the Japenese cars are always on the top of their lists, because they usually have all these attributes.

Its like clock work, Hondas, Acuras, Lexus, Toyota, Some Nissans and Infinitys, some Mazdas, (those of which have not been killed by the Ford ownership), some Germans cars, are usually rcommended and almost all Ford, GM, and Chrysler vehicles are not recommended. That tells you right there rhat they are doing their jobs, as all you need to do is drive the latter 3 makes and you know they are of sub-par quality.

In a nutshell Consumers Reports speaks the truth.

vtechbrain

We're #1, We're #1, We're #1. Yesssss!!!!!!!
Here is my issue. Ignorimi have been debasing Honda VS the germans for decades!!! Meanwhile, Honda has persevered in building more and more innovative and technicaly advanced vehicles for less money. For decades, being a loyal honda freak, I have endured the germanic bulls---t attitude of Bimmer owners, Now All but one of the automotive publications I know of clearly state that these wannabe, arrogant bufoons are exactly that. I can't stop savoring the moment and letting BMW owners know That the concensus clearly says they are only second best!! It is similar to the feeling the american team had when Jesse Owens destroyed the krauts in the Berlin olympics!!!!!! Honda, Honda UBER ALLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Majorhouse

I think the only thing that should matter is that it is #1 to you. I know I will never convince my BMW driving buddy that the TL is better than his 325i. He will never be able to convince me that his car is better than mine.

I'm sure that people who were going to buy a bimmer are still going to buy a bimmer no matter what CR says. Just be happy that you have a car that you like, forget everyone else.

nickademus

I agree with Majorhouse. We're all here because we have chosen the TL. Who cares what some morons say about it?

Let's consider some facts here. First, McDonalds is hugely popular even though the hamburgers suck. (I'm getting off track here.)

Consumer Reports is a good magazine if you want to know what the average Joe thinks about a product. They're pretty thorough although their science is sometimes subject. They are NOT qualified to rate "high-end" products such as 100K stereo systems or Lamborghini's; they just don't have the right perspective and those things are never a good value. They are pretty qualified to rate a car in this class however.
As far as C&D's review goes, I think it's pretty dumb. They're testing the car on a race track! It's not a race car. I see the same crap with reviews of my BMW motorcycle. I have one of the finest touring bikes ever made, and it gets many accolades. However, the cycle magazines insist on telling you what's wrong with it from the perspective of a race bike. If you want a race bike, you don't buy this one. And the same is true of this car.
C&D doesn't like FWD because of understeer and torque steer, but in the real world that all of us drive in, FWD actually works better. It holds the road better in everyday driving conditions such as rain, snow, and debree. But it's no fun to do donuts in.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not a race car driver.
I appreciate the technology, the finish, the comfort, the reliability, AND the performance of this car. That's why I chose it. BMW, Infiniti, and Lexus make great cars. I choose the TL, and I'm glad I did.