FRANKKIE

Friend of mine who owns a 1999 clk430 says it would be
no match at all for him.. Is the TL not a faster car?

SergeyM

race should be very close below 100mph.

wavshrdr

I think the CLK will pull it at almost any time. The V8 pulls good at almost any RPM. Mercedes also often underrates HP. I think it might be sort of close to 60 but above that the MB will pull it.

I drove one before I bought my AMG and it was a good running car. LOTS of low-end torque and super easy to launch. That thing will run 0-60 6 +/- .1 seconds flat all day long.

Same type of launch for my AMG, nail the throttle 4.3 seconds later I am 60 and the 1/4 in high 12's like clockwork. I have never drive a more consistent car to launch than a MB.

My WRX if I launch perfectly will run high 11's in the quarter, 1 little mistake and I have a mid 12 pass. A friend of mine took his Big Benz to the track and it was the first time he ever raced. His first pass was 14.01, 2nd 14.04, 3rd 14.07 and then a 14.0. His RT sucked but the car was incredibly consistent and too NO skill to launch.

MB claimed the car should run 14.2-.3 and he ran better than that and it wasn't at sea level for us either. I almost forgot to mention he had over $30k in stereo and video equipment in the car which I am sure added a ton of weight to the car just due to the giant subs he had in the car.

So while the MB may look close on paper, even a chimpanze can make these cars run fast! If I were you I'd run him from 10-70. That way his better launch won't be an advantage...

PS almost all MBs are speed limited to 155 mph (if they have the HP to go that fast).

ndabunka

The 430 has more torque but it also weighs more (about 800lbs). If your is a 6sp, you might have a chance from a rolling (say 10MPH) start. However, if you see a 55 you might just want to pedal softly. Hard to tell the difference between the two because they both have the same ///AMG body kit.

wavshrdr

In the original post, FRANKKIE lists it as an AT04TL. I'd definitely give the nod to the Benz if its an auto TL.

samkws

the mercedes are slow off the line, typical german car~

and all canadian models are limited to 130mph except the AMGs...

Turbowhat2

No Such thing as "typical German Car" ... hmm I wonder where porsche is made?

E55 AMG (HP?) can beat a Ford Mustang Cobra (390 HP)
and the Cobra makes 390 lbs/ft also.

german cars are not slow off the line.

wavshrdr

My MB is not slow off the line, believe me! It runs solid 4.3-4.4 0-60 times so it is launching pretty good. It's 60' times were consistently in the 1.9 second range which is damn good for a car running on it's stock street tires and NOT AWD!

chadr

Well his assertion of no match at all is BS. It would be a drivers match with both cars being automatic. A 6-speed TL with a good driver would win.

samkws

ur car is AMG, which is out of the question

but the mercedes has a deep, heavy gas pedal which is quite different with the japanese cars~

i had to re-adjust the way i put on the gas pedal whenever i switch back to the TL...

wavshrdr

Go back and read the original premise of this thread CLK430 VS AT04TL. He is talking about an AUTOMATIC TL versus and CLK430. I have driven both cars quite a bit and the CLK has more low end torque than the TL.

Front wheel drive is definitely and impediment when you go drag racing. The harder you launch the car, the more the weight transfers OFF the drive wheels. Last time I checked the CLK was RWD and the ÒL- FWD.

If memory servers me correctly and I could be wrong, the CLK came with a limited slip rear diff which would give it even more of and advantage over a AUTOMATIC TL which is a "one wheeled wonder" under hard acceleration. Take of the traction control and it just spins ONE front wheel!

One thing many of you are forgetting to mention as I think you are only doing a comparison of HP, TORQUE to WEIGHT ratio is what gives you acceleration. You can make up for a lack of torque somewhat by gearing but the MB is putting out almost 300lb/ft of torque in a car that weighs pretty close to the TL.

The TL makes 238-lbs-ft of torque at 5000 rpm whereas the MB has a very flat torque peak of 295 lbs/ft from 3000-4000RPM so to make the TL go requires more revs than the CLK.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

10 races back to back .. the CLK430 may not win ALL of them, but it will win the majority of them against the '04 TL ..

I love it how people wanna believe their new TL's are these muscle cars that can take on V8's.... The 6-spd needs to be driven pretty well to take on a CLK430 as well... launching a FWD 6-spd is pretty tricky

Ken1997TL

Tell him you beat him in a department called "value".

Yes the CLK is a fine machine but you have to pay quite a bit of $$$.

Its called the law of diminishing returns.

samkws

the new fully loaded CLK 500 is twice as much as the fully loaded 6spd TL

that's what so-called the value

wavshrdr

Launching a FWD car is tricky! I have spent quite a bit of time racing in my life in all manner of competitions from drag racing to flat track, moto-x, enduros, road racing, auto-x, etc. I used to have a very fast turbo CRX (long before they became the import equivalent of the Mustang or Camaro) and I can tell you it took me a lot of practice to get good launches down with the FWD platform.

For the others that say they were close and that it's a moral victory of sorts, face the facts, you still lost! If you want to talk price, you could pick up a used CLK430 for about the price of a new TL. Tell me the truth, which would you rather pull up in for a date with some nice woman, a CLK430 or a TL? The TL is a nice car but its not a MB.

If you want cheap go fast speed, there are much better cars for less $$$ than the TL. I don't think the TL was made to be the ultimate sports sedan. It's a nice all around package that doesn't have the best in class performance in any area. It does have a nice interior and a decent drivetrain.

Don't think I am slamming the car because I am in the process of buying one. I am just realistic about my expectations concerning the car and fortunately I have other things to drive when I want real speed and performance. It's not a "giant killer" kind of car its just one that won't shame you with its performance. You can have a moral victory that your FWD car didn't do too bad when it got spanked by a cheap WRX Subaru costing $10K less. You can be smug that you have DVD audio and the Sube doesn't, etc. etc. etc.

So again the 04TL auto doesn't stand a chance against a CLK430! The 6spd might IF it is driven perfectly with no mistakes. If you ever get a chance to drive and MB they are some of the easiest cars to launch quickly and consistently. They would make a great bracket racing car!

Nickerz

wavshrdr

Did you say you also have an E55 AMG? Or just know someone who does? I agree that the TL isn't a match for the CLK430 especially auto but I'm interested in MB cars too! Cost aside, do you think I should go for the C32 AMG or TL? Again, no comparo on the price just car. I was also told not to spend that much money on a MB C-Class. What do you think? I can afford the C32 AMG if I really wanted to get it but am thinking instead of getting the Acura TL for now (3yr lease) buying a Lexus RX330 for my girlfriend and then after my TL lease is up going to the E55 AMG. But damn, I just love the fact of owning an MB right now!

Nick

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

C32 vs TL ?? why would you even put those two together??? It's like asking if you'd rather buy the Dodge minivan over the BMW Mini....

Clearly you guys need to open a new forum: "Chat about the MB we own or aspire to own, or dream to own"

Let's save this forum for Acura chat, congrats on your MB's.

Nickerz

Hey PeterUbers,

How are ya? Oh and...SHUT THE HELL UP WHY DON'T YA!

In case you didn't notice, this thread was comparing MB and TL and I clearly said "COST ASIDE" as the TL is in the same class as the MB C-Class you dumbass maybe not the C32 AMG b/c of price as it's also in the same class as BMW 3 series but I certainly don't have to go a BMW site to discuss this either.

ps Mind your own business as my question was directed to someone specific. Don't like it, move on ya lil' *****!

partagas

Traded in MBs on GS400s. Traded GS400s on BMWs. I curently still have a wonderful 330i. I could just as easily pick up a C32. Or, I could drop one of my 5 company cars and get an E55. Guess what, I'm getting a TL because I want one. It's more fun to drive than the MBs. It has a better stereo. It doesn't skew my image. I fel better about the gas mileage. I am choosing it over the current BMWs and MBs. How do you like that. BTW, my kids CLS would out stop light race an E430, 10-80.

Nickerz

Yeah, I'm still leaning toward the TL too but what about the handling vs. the MBs? There seems to be a lot of unfavorable remarks re: the TL's handling but then again I've seen a lot of support too.

The A-Spec has my attention to offset this. But damn, you have an opportunity to hold keys to an E55 and you're going to pass!? Wow!

Appreciate the feed back!

samkws

E55 is a different story, u r talking about the fastest 4 door sedan in the world...

if u can name anyone that is faster, i will bow u~

even M5 eats the dust of the E55...

FidizzyTypeS

I raced my friend CLK430......you'll pull on him all the way up until about 85...then the clk opens up and the TL drops off.

wavshrdr

Nick, I have the SLK32 AMG. Basically it has the same motor as the C32. I absolutely love the motor in the SLK. The supercharged 6 is an awesome powerplant. The car has instant torque at any RPM and pulls to redline like you wouldn't believe. The auto tranny is the best auto I've ever driven it's fast and has good programming so it doesn't upshift in turns even when you let off the throttle.

The thrust this car has is amazing. Just for the heck of it I took it to the track and I wasn't at sea level. First run with the traction control and A/C on netted me a 13.2 at 108 mph!!!! That is a seriously fast car. I finally was able to get it into the high 12's which is damn fast for a car running street tires and TOTALLY stock!

If I had to buy a sedan for just my only car, it wouldn't be a TL but I still want one for other reasons. In it's stock form its not as fun to drive as a C32 and I do prefer RWD or AWD for "fun to drive" factor. But since I have other fun toys the TL will work.

Nickerz

wavshrdr,

Thanks for the feed back! I think I will start off with the TL and after a short lease, move to the Benz! I love hearing about the raw power the MB AMG's have and definitely feel that the TL has most bang for it's buck too.

Blazin TL

i thought the 430 was a mid 14 sec car, possibly 14.3 with a good launch. The MB are always hampered by the fact that they're automatics, even with all that power. I've driven a couple MB, around a test course too. The MB seem weak off the line, you really have to put the pedal to the metal to get goin, which is different from TL which the throttle is much shorter.

honestly, what does the new TL run in the 1/4 for a auto and 6speed.

seriously, they're are CL-s 6-speed that can run 14.1 stock, that's plenty to beat a 430.

Nickerz

I believe the TL runs 14.5 1/4 mile times (auto).

I agree about MB starting off sluggish but I haven't driven an AMG and I hear these put you back in your seat at the touch of the pedal. Have been able to drive any AMG's?

Nickerz

I believe the TL runs 14.5 1/4 mile times (auto).

I agree about MB starting off sluggish, which was my experience with the C320 but I haven't driven an AMG (which bumps the sticker price up about $20K) and I hear the AMG's put you back in your seat at the touch of the pedal. Have you been able to drive any AMG's?

Peters

I had a chance with a CLK430 and my 5AT. Neck and neck to about 85 kms/hr. He slowed to turn-off, so I can't tell you more than that. It was a little wet, so I think the FWD had the advantage.

samkws

lol
i have been talking that the MB is sluggish off the line at the beginning and u guys said no

now u guys say yes...errrrr...

i know this coz i used to have a E class and a S class...they have a deep throtte and makes it less responsive

and my boss do own a E430 4matic, that car has a lot of mid range punch but doesn't have the explosiveness of the TL...

partagas

Guys? MBs are not "fun" to drive. AMGs go fast but that's all. They understeer horribly and any MB becomes totally unmanageable at the limit. An M5 will cook an E55 on the track. The E55 lunges ahead on the straights and then falls on its face i the turns. Same with a C32 vs an M3. It ain't close. A 330i will beat a C32 on a streets course. This last weekend at Thunderhill, it was dramatically demonstrated to me. Now, the TL will run circles around any "stock" MB. An E55 is obviously faster, as is a C32. But I don't know enough yet to say they are more fun to drive. They certainly are not more fun than a 330i. As soon as I can wring out a TL I'll let you know about cornering limits and "fun." Well, unless fun is passing on the freeway.

samkws

i agree that BMW is more fun to drive...so does my parents...but they love MB more than BMW...

it's all about the brand loyalty, my dad seems to lost his interest in BMW lately coz of their weird designs...but he loves the MB more than ever now...

anyways...BMW gives u more fun but MB gives u a more classy look...depends what u want...some ppl like to drive a fun car and some ppl like to have a fast but classy car...

if u want some fun, should go import the lotus elise, that car is REAL FUN!! haha

partagas

I thought we were talking about "fun to drive." Personally, I think that the new Bangle BMW designs suck. That's why the last gen BMWs are so dear to enthusiasts. But, back to the TL, if the '04/6MT TL is not more "fun" than any MB, I'll trade itsass away in nothing flat. Yes, I have admired and respected my MBs but fun? No. I had a Taurus SHO that was fun. I had a 928 GT that wasn't much fun.

Peters

I agree with partagas, particularly when you look at the new BMW 530i's - they're plodders compared to the TL when it comes to pure get-up-and-go. And its too difficult to compare the AMG class MB's most of which are double in price to a TL. As to the C32's, I think they're inferior when compared to the BMW 330i Coupes in the handling/fun-to-drive equation- they got power though! I suppose if you're butt ugly and need a date, well, you can always rent or enter into a short-term lease for a MB, it'll be short lived mind you.

rets

Yes, we're the guy having Acura loyalty, and we try to compare TL vs other vehicles.

partagas

Now, don't get me wrong, I thought long and hard about a C32. I talked a discount out of the local salesmanager, whom I know well; then I pissed him off. The limit handling was scary and the content, NAV and stereo just didn't make me happy enough, regardless of price. I have to lease 4-5 cars every 3 years or so. Price is really not an issue, happiness is. And, this damn TL better provide it The MBs and especially Lexuses have not, lotsa money, lotsa panache, no fun.

wavshrdr

I disagree with the take on the AMG versions of the MB. I have spent a fair amount of time showing my tailights to the supposedly better handling M3 or Z3 (M version), Z4 and I am not talking about just high speed roadwork.

I drove a 330i and ix and thought it was a dog. It had a good chassis but felt woefully underpowered. A lot of how these cars will do depends on your environment. BMWs aren't exactly ideal when the roads are less well kept than most raceways. I have had several BMWs and when I lived where the roads were less than billiard table smooth such as Florida, SoCal, Georgia and Texas for example I've been very disappointed. MB on the other hand seems to have more "supple" suspension without being overly soft that still allows you to maintain a high speed even when the roads are less than ideal.

Where I live in Minnesota now our roads are heavily frost damaged. My MB which supposedly had better handling than my MB can't maintain as high an average velocity on our backroads although on a racecourse it might turn slightly faster laps. So the question becomes do you want a "street car" or a "race car". The limits of my MB are very close to the Vette at .91g lateral acceleration.

Drive a new MB and you might be surprised. You might be further surprised at MB's racing heritage and how well they did in the touring car series in Europe. I am not the world's biggest MB fan but I do respect what they are capable of doing. They arguably have built some of the most interesting cars in the world at one time or another. Who could every forget the 300SL gullwing. They can definitely build a hotrod or too.

It's amazing how we veered from TLauto vs CLK430 to where we are now.

As for the CLK430, the last one I drove launched pretty darn hard and would easily smoke the tires all the way through first and spin them going into second. MB have sort of a long throttle pedal throw so you can more finely modulate the gas instead of it being on/off like a light switch.

One last point about the TL, I'd like to see how the drive by wire (DBW) system is over time in the TL. I absolutely hated it when Audi went to it in 2000. Definitely not a linear response. I felt Acura did the same thing in the TL to make it feel more "responsive" off the line while actually making it more difficult to control in slick conditions.

It would be interesting to see how many of you actually have spent time in some of the vehicles than basing opinions on what magazines have written about them. I feel there is a BMW bias in the media so "If it has the little prop on the hood, it must be good" (said in the voice of the great defender of OJ Simpson as in "If it does not fit, you must acquit!).

ndabunka

My 2001 CLK55 ///AMG has smoked quite a few M3 and even the M5's. Granted some cars have more HP than others and from what I've seen mine may be a little quicker than most 55's. On curves it's a little different but there are additional handling kit's that you can buy for these "toys" that makes 'em stick like Porsches. The CLK GTR (Bascially the same car as mine with the handling pkgs and 600+HP) is a contender on the circuit. My AMG car will slam you into the seat and keep you there through about 110MPH (and the first 1/4mile in 13.0 flat. Talk about a kick in the pants! But alias, even I am reliquishing it in favor of a more "family" car. I'm certain more AMG's are in my future, just not my current future. Now, if you can boost the HP on the '04TL by about 60HP you might have something that could content with my CLK55 (simply because the TL if lighter). So, I am looking forward to the tuning toys that come down the pipe in the future. In short, if you see an AMG in your new TL, be smart and treat it like a venomous snake least it decide to jump up and bite you in the butt (for now).

partagas

Great talk. They are fast. But the fact is, in class, two equal drivers on any track less straight than a drag strip, the BMWs dust MBs. Thats why so few AMG "enthusiasts" track their cars. Sorry. go to Willow, Buttonwillow, Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, etc on any track day and see for yourself. Oh, I listed CA tracks. I thought yo were here. Regardless, If my personality were different, I would love MBs I don't mean to disparage them nor do I question fast. The question here was ftd and the TL should provide more ftd than any MB for twice the price.

samkws

different cars for different needs

not everyone is looking for power...that's why the MB and BMW making so many engines for just one model

my dad is never a fan of power, so whenever he buys a car, he will not get the top of the model, but not the lowest thou...just in between and make sure it's not underpowered...

some ppl will look for economy and get the lowest of the line as possible...

some want fully loaded even they don't want that much power...

some want bad ass power and get the exotic ones...

since everyone has different taste, so just get the one that u want~ =)

SergeyM

Want to race E500 or S600? The former will easily beat TL and the latter will murder TL.