dsc888

Hey guys,

I am wondering about the VSA system built into all of our cars. Particularly, I am wondering if the traction control aspect of the system can fry our rotors when we try to accelerate quickly on slippery surfaces. I understand VSA cuts engine power and can apply the brakes. But if you hold the accelerator down going up an incline covered with fresh powder, wouldn't the VSA eventually overheat and warp the rotors if you are going up a long hill and are not aware of the braking aspect of the system?

From experience, I have turned off VSA all together and simply spun my way up the hill. I will admit that I didn't turn off traction control the first time I slipped going up a hill that had just been covered with snow. The system just kicked in until the car went nowhere and simply stopped.

I am asking cuz I had warped rotors even though I never ride the brakes or brake hard to a full stop. I also avoid washing my car until it has cooled for a while. I am just curious as to whether or not I might have caused the rotor warpage. Thanks folks.

dsc888

jhan1102

Yes you can. I have done that before.

Traction control can over heat and sometimes turn it self off, but it can also over heat and cause problems. Brake fluid can burn, and damage other parts.

I know cuz I've done it.

crazymjb

The logical answer would be yes. jhan, have you done it in your TL?

KJSmitty

Not 100% sure because I don't claim to be an expert on Acura's VSA/Traction control system but........ Regarding your question and "traction control", I would venture to say it is purely an engine management function vs braking effect to keep the tires from spinning. With the TL's "throttle-by-wire" setup not to mention computer controlled ignition, fuel etc., it' much easier/efficient to kill power on the engine side than apply brakes.. In all reality traction control and VSA are two different functions yet both controlled with the TL's single VSA switch/process.

So, my professional opinion would be traction control does not use the brakes. VSA IE, "stability assist", does use the brakes to individually control each wheel to stabilize the TL given a less than desirable vehicle attitude

As for your rotors being warped.... Poor rotors on Acura's part... I drive and brake like a sissy, near all highway use and mine are warped - 13K miles. Your not remotely alone in the warped rotor arena.. Acura should have used the Brembo rotors on all TL's to avoid this... I for one will replace with a good set of aftermarket rotors when the time comes. The Acura calipers are just fine on the 5AT but in my opinion the rotors are on par with the Bridgestone
EL-42s

Cheers

ChuckDu

The following is from hondanews.com ...

VEHICLE STABILITY ASSIST (VSA)

The TL is equipped with 4-channel VSA that helps the driver retain control of the car in the event the vehicle reaches its dynamic traction limits, for example through aggressive cornering, encountering ice or dirt on the road, or entering a decreasing-radius corner too fast.

In the event of understeer (where the front tires lose grip), the system applies the inside front and rear brakes to increase yaw (vehicle "rotation"), slowing the vehicle and enabling it to complete the turn. Engine torque may also be reduced by coordination of the Drive-by-Wire Throttle System and Engine Controller.

The 4-channel system controls all four brakes independently. In the event of oversteer (where the rear tires lose grip), the system applies the outside front and rear brakes to decrease yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to stay on its intended path.

An indicator light on the instrument panel alerts the driver whenever the VSA system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability.

The traction control component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, traction control reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces.

A cockpit switch is provided to disable the vehicle stability and traction control aspects of the system while leaving the ABS system fully functional.

KJSmitty

And there we have it......
I'd have to chat with an Acura engineer but I wouldn't think they would use brake force to remotely "overpower" the engine. As with some other traction control systems, the brakes are used primarily to induce drag on the spinning wheel in order to transfer the torque to the opposite drive wheel. Not a big requirement on an LSD but given the TLs 5AT diff, it would come in handy.

Thanks ChuckDu for the official description.

Champcar1

Hey dsc888, I had the exact same result in my 6mt going up a snow covered hill on my way in to work. The first time I went up the hill I left the VSA on and almost did not make it up. The next time I turned it off and had no problems at all. I just feathered the throttle and sh up it went. The computer controls in cars these day are fine most of the time, but they are not fool proof all the time. There are times when I think they need to be turned off and the car driven by the seat of your pants feel. I guess that is why the engineers put an on-off switch on ours.

HEK

Well kids, I've read all the responses and can say that now that I get in my car and turn on the ignition I have made it a habit to turn off the VSA off for the same reasons menioned on some responses.
If I have not mastered driving in New England all my life, the VSA will do more harm than good.

Champcar1

Same here. I've been driving for 36 or so years and 25 in Colorado. I think I can pretty much handle it. It is off unless it is wet, or snowy. And off when I try to go up a snowy hill.

dsc888

Champcar1,

I learned about this from when I owned my 97 Camry V6 which also had traction control. The owner's manual advised people to turn off the TRAC if they ever had to "rock" the vehicle out of snow or mud. I was stuck on the exact same hill with the Camry right after it snowed. The system sensed both front wheels slipping and applied enough braking and engine spark retardation to practically stop forward progress all together. I feel bad for the little old ladies who drove the V6 Camrys and didn't realize that you had to turn it off in order to get moving in such conditions.

dsc888

dsc888

KJSmitty,

Thanks for the reassurance. I will probably install Brembo OEM rotors like I did on my Camry after the 3 sets of factory replacements! The Brembos never warped thereafter. They do know a thing or two about brakes .

dsc888

jhan1102

I have damaged my Honda Accord V6 about three years ago.

During raining season in California, my bad tires on the AV6 kept on loosing traction on the road. To make the long story short, pads were damaged, my rotors were warped, fluid was burnt, and it melted one of the bolts, which later had to be cut off by the dealer.

It was covered under Honda’s warranty after begging the service manager.


My recommendation: Don’t push them to the limit. They weren’t made for abuse.

HiG4s

Hmm,, in another thread here people are insisting problems with the VSA should be considered a SAFETY issue. I disagreed, but after reading this thread I guess is can be a safety issue, IF IT"S ON!!!!!!

dsc888

Wow! I started this thread only out of curiosity. I can't believe the amount of damage that the traction control system caused you. They should put some disclaimer in the manual about this. But then their lawyers would never allow for this in case someone gets hurt because they forgot to turn VSA back on after they got out of the slippery conditions. It's definitely a catch 22.

dsc888

JPSMAN

I really don't believe that there is more wear on the brakes from the VSA activating compared with a hard stop from 70MPH.........think about the forces at work.........

Unless you are sitting on ice for hours at a time, I would disagree that there would be damage from the VSA system.......

jhan1102

Doesn't the Acura manual state that it can?

Accord V6 manual stated that it can cause problems.

jhan1102

If you disagree, just try it out for us.

KJSmitty

Nice... And just so you know, I have been "trying it out" for nearly two years now... I've only had my VSA off once and that was just to experience the difference on a slick surface. I've driven in wet, slick and icy conditions many times/miles and have yet to remotely have any issues associated to the VSA/TC.

The only reason VSA/Traction Control is going to cause you problems is if your driving your car inappropriately in the first place. Sure, if every time you're on a slick surface etc. you mash the throttle just to overwork the system or,, you're constantly throwing the TL into positions that the VSA is activating, then yes - you will have abnormal wear and tear due to its "use"...

If you drive your vehicle in a mature and smart manner given road conditions, VSA/TA will be your friend, not foe.

Now, if your stuck and "rocking" etc. is required, then by all means turn it off,, because it "can" work against you in that situation.

Cheers

jhan1102

So, what do you mean by saying you “have been ‘trying it out’ for nearly two years”?

Driving inappropriately you mean?

My previous AV6’s TC was limited to speed less than 15 miles. (Wow! I am racing now!) I also stated “During raining season in California, my bad tires on the AV6 kept on loosing traction on the road. To make the long story short, pads were damaged, my rotors were warped, fluid was burnt, and it melted one of the bolts, which later had to be cut off by the dealer.”

I never said VSA or TC is bad for us. Like I said before… “My recommendation: Don’t push them to the limit. They weren’t made for abuse.”

I hope you know that what you said on your previous post support what I have been saying by “Don’t abuse your car.”