C&D TL Comparison test
#81
Does anyone read this
Sorry guys I have been stuck at work but I will be scanning the pics tonight (Friday). Then I will be sending them to LED Master and he will host them at a bigger size so they are legible. This is all depending if they have a C&D mag at the book store.
#82
Very tired of TL not getting proper recognition. This car "overall " hands the others their a$$'s. Then C&D has to go and make up bs category ratings to bring it down a couple of notches. If the TL wins in 0-60, 1/4ml, braking, is the most luxurious, has the best ride, most standard features, and best price, then i dont care who you are, if you have normal means of thinking then you have to agree the TL is the best. If you prefer the handling and the rwd nature of the bmw and g35 then you are in favor of it for that reason and that alone, but that does not make them near better, when clearly they fall short all in all other major areas. Instead of bashing the TL on its fwd drive format they should be praising honda for what they have done and thats create the best fwd ever made much like their beloved bmw's for what they feel is the best rwd. Oh, and by comparing the 325 instead of the 330, your really hiding your biased opinions C&D...thats sarcasm in case you couldnt tell. Same great, even more overpriced car, with a few more ponies, big deal. Really these guys make no sense, they loved the cl-s and loved previous tl-s, any decent competition it was up against hasn't changed, now this car is far better so they're only contradicting themselves.
#83
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I have not seen my C&D yet...it can arrive from the 30th of one month to the 10th or later of another...but the 0-60 and 1/4 mile data vs the G35 might be explained by gear ratios. Do each get past 60 with one shift? Do either get to 99 without going into 4th (TL doesn't). If G35 has shorter gearing it might be better in 1/4 mile than expected vs the TL.
Gearing is as important as torque (and mathematically derived bhp). That is why a S2000 can beat a 350Z. And why the TL, which comes close to matching my S4 in 3rd gear, is a slug in comparison in 6th.
Gearing is as important as torque (and mathematically derived bhp). That is why a S2000 can beat a 350Z. And why the TL, which comes close to matching my S4 in 3rd gear, is a slug in comparison in 6th.
#84
Originally posted by erikmoeser
I have not seen my C&D yet...it can arrive from the 30th of one month to the 10th or later of another...but the 0-60 and 1/4 mile data vs the G35 might be explained by gear ratios. Do each get past 60 with one shift? Do either get to 99 without going into 4th (TL doesn't). If G35 has shorter gearing it might be better in 1/4 mile than expected vs the TL.
Gearing is as important as torque (and mathematically derived bhp). That is why a S2000 can beat a 350Z. And why the TL, which comes close to matching my S4 in 3rd gear, is a slug in comparison in 6th.
I have not seen my C&D yet...it can arrive from the 30th of one month to the 10th or later of another...but the 0-60 and 1/4 mile data vs the G35 might be explained by gear ratios. Do each get past 60 with one shift? Do either get to 99 without going into 4th (TL doesn't). If G35 has shorter gearing it might be better in 1/4 mile than expected vs the TL.
Gearing is as important as torque (and mathematically derived bhp). That is why a S2000 can beat a 350Z. And why the TL, which comes close to matching my S4 in 3rd gear, is a slug in comparison in 6th.
Also, for the comment that the TL is better in everyway EXCEPT the RWD might be right, but RWD IS A HUGE DEAL to many auto enthusiasts. I for one think RWD is just more fun therefore can see why C&D chose to go with the G35. After all before the fun factor was added in, it was a pretty close race with the TL leading. The BMW coming in second is still a mystery to me
#86
Originally posted by RhodeRunner
Is the TL an auto transmission or 6 speed?
EDIT: manual transmission on all
Question: Any reliable 0-60 times on the automatic TL?
Is the TL an auto transmission or 6 speed?
EDIT: manual transmission on all
Question: Any reliable 0-60 times on the automatic TL?
#88
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by Spud
OK I'm confused. A message above states that the BMW beat the TL in 0-100 and yet the 1/4 mile times are 14.5/99 for the TL and 15.4/91 for the BMW. Something's not quite right here...
OK I'm confused. A message above states that the BMW beat the TL in 0-100 and yet the 1/4 mile times are 14.5/99 for the TL and 15.4/91 for the BMW. Something's not quite right here...
#89
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Vulture
To who ever started this thread. Where did you get the copy of C&D that all this info is coming from? On a news stand, from your mail box or the web?
To who ever started this thread. Where did you get the copy of C&D that all this info is coming from? On a news stand, from your mail box or the web?
#90
CEO of IMHO
Mine came in the mail 2 days ago. It usually arrives on newstands after it hits the mailboxes.
Let me know if there are any other facts/figures you want me to relate.
re: "TL is the best car of them all":
I'm not sure that's 100% correct from all aspects. For instance, if you're someone who doesn't care about how the inside looks, and doesn't care if it's FWD or RWD, then the G35 may be the best of the bunch.
If you're someone who values brand cache over utility, you may prefer a BMW or Jag to any other car in this line-up.
Some people are self-described quirky, and will buy a Saab over any "normal" nameplate so they communicate that they're "different."
etc...
I think that the values that the Acura buyers share are: equal appreciation for reliability, performance, technology innovation, saftey, interior design, and to a lesser extent, exterior style. Above all of these, Acura buyers seem to be driven by VALUE.
I say exterior style is a lesser extent because until very recently, Acura has not been on the forefront of exterior style. Acura seems to be on a trajectory to change this. Time will tell how successful they are.
So, with that equal appreciation for so many different aspects of a car, Acura loses it's ability to be the "saftey brand" (Volvo), the "ultimate driving machine" (BMW), or the British Luxo brand (Jag). And the problem is here is that Acuras are arguably as safe as Volvos, as fun to drive as equivelantly-priced BMWs, and as luxurious or even moreso than Jaguar. "Value" turns a lot of people off... too many compromises when you shop value to some.
I don't think C&D appreciates value in the upper eschelans of sport sedans, where their passions lay. Where their passions do not lie... bargain sedans, SUVs, etc., they're more attracted to the value quotient, it seems. But at every single level of car they review... performance comes first. And the TL makes compromises in the performance department for the sake of FWD and comfy drive. This is why it's 3rd out of 7th. Which, btw, isn't really a bad showing considering C&D doesn't care or value the interior style and gadgets that we all tend to value.
Jon
Let me know if there are any other facts/figures you want me to relate.
re: "TL is the best car of them all":
I'm not sure that's 100% correct from all aspects. For instance, if you're someone who doesn't care about how the inside looks, and doesn't care if it's FWD or RWD, then the G35 may be the best of the bunch.
If you're someone who values brand cache over utility, you may prefer a BMW or Jag to any other car in this line-up.
Some people are self-described quirky, and will buy a Saab over any "normal" nameplate so they communicate that they're "different."
etc...
I think that the values that the Acura buyers share are: equal appreciation for reliability, performance, technology innovation, saftey, interior design, and to a lesser extent, exterior style. Above all of these, Acura buyers seem to be driven by VALUE.
I say exterior style is a lesser extent because until very recently, Acura has not been on the forefront of exterior style. Acura seems to be on a trajectory to change this. Time will tell how successful they are.
So, with that equal appreciation for so many different aspects of a car, Acura loses it's ability to be the "saftey brand" (Volvo), the "ultimate driving machine" (BMW), or the British Luxo brand (Jag). And the problem is here is that Acuras are arguably as safe as Volvos, as fun to drive as equivelantly-priced BMWs, and as luxurious or even moreso than Jaguar. "Value" turns a lot of people off... too many compromises when you shop value to some.
I don't think C&D appreciates value in the upper eschelans of sport sedans, where their passions lay. Where their passions do not lie... bargain sedans, SUVs, etc., they're more attracted to the value quotient, it seems. But at every single level of car they review... performance comes first. And the TL makes compromises in the performance department for the sake of FWD and comfy drive. This is why it's 3rd out of 7th. Which, btw, isn't really a bad showing considering C&D doesn't care or value the interior style and gadgets that we all tend to value.
Jon
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Mine came in the mail 2 days ago. It usually arrives on newstands after it hits the mailboxes.
Let me know if there are any other facts/figures you want me to relate.
re: "TL is the best car of them all":
I'm not sure that's 100% correct from all aspects. For instance, if you're someone who doesn't care about how the inside looks, and doesn't care if it's FWD or RWD, then the G35 may be the best of the bunch.
If you're someone who values brand cache over utility, you may prefer a BMW or Jag to any other car in this line-up.
Some people are self-described quirky, and will buy a Saab over any "normal" nameplate so they communicate that they're "different."
etc...
I think that the values that the Acura buyers share are: equal appreciation for reliability, performance, technology innovation, saftey, interior design, and to a lesser extent, exterior style. Above all of these, Acura buyers seem to be driven by VALUE.
I say exterior style is a lesser extent because until very recently, Acura has not been on the forefront of exterior style. Acura seems to be on a trajectory to change this. Time will tell how successful they are.
So, with that equal appreciation for so many different aspects of a car, Acura loses it's ability to be the "saftey brand" (Volvo), the "ultimate driving machine" (BMW), or the British Luxo brand (Jag). And the problem is here is that Acuras are arguably as safe as Volvos, as fun to drive as equivelantly-priced BMWs, and as luxurious or even moreso than Jaguar. "Value" turns a lot of people off... too many compromises when you shop value to some.
I don't think C&D appreciates value in the upper eschelans of sport sedans, where their passions lay. Where their passions do not lie... bargain sedans, SUVs, etc., they're more attracted to the value quotient, it seems. But at every single level of car they review... performance comes first. And the TL makes compromises in the performance department for the sake of FWD and comfy drive. This is why it's 3rd out of 7th. Which, btw, isn't really a bad showing considering C&D doesn't care or value the interior style and gadgets that we all tend to value.
Jon
Mine came in the mail 2 days ago. It usually arrives on newstands after it hits the mailboxes.
Let me know if there are any other facts/figures you want me to relate.
re: "TL is the best car of them all":
I'm not sure that's 100% correct from all aspects. For instance, if you're someone who doesn't care about how the inside looks, and doesn't care if it's FWD or RWD, then the G35 may be the best of the bunch.
If you're someone who values brand cache over utility, you may prefer a BMW or Jag to any other car in this line-up.
Some people are self-described quirky, and will buy a Saab over any "normal" nameplate so they communicate that they're "different."
etc...
I think that the values that the Acura buyers share are: equal appreciation for reliability, performance, technology innovation, saftey, interior design, and to a lesser extent, exterior style. Above all of these, Acura buyers seem to be driven by VALUE.
I say exterior style is a lesser extent because until very recently, Acura has not been on the forefront of exterior style. Acura seems to be on a trajectory to change this. Time will tell how successful they are.
So, with that equal appreciation for so many different aspects of a car, Acura loses it's ability to be the "saftey brand" (Volvo), the "ultimate driving machine" (BMW), or the British Luxo brand (Jag). And the problem is here is that Acuras are arguably as safe as Volvos, as fun to drive as equivelantly-priced BMWs, and as luxurious or even moreso than Jaguar. "Value" turns a lot of people off... too many compromises when you shop value to some.
I don't think C&D appreciates value in the upper eschelans of sport sedans, where their passions lay. Where their passions do not lie... bargain sedans, SUVs, etc., they're more attracted to the value quotient, it seems. But at every single level of car they review... performance comes first. And the TL makes compromises in the performance department for the sake of FWD and comfy drive. This is why it's 3rd out of 7th. Which, btw, isn't really a bad showing considering C&D doesn't care or value the interior style and gadgets that we all tend to value.
Jon
One thing though, I think Honda/Acura are by far the most innovative car manufacturer in existence. They have already manufactured a Hydrogen fuel cell car, they have a zero emissions engine which as not been released yet and 300hp hybrid RL on the way.
#92
Originally posted by Habiib_Dahli
I don't see what the fuss is everytime C & D ( who most consider to be the holy grail of Auto Reviews ) says something bad or ranks the TL lower than most of you would have. YOU KNOW that the TL is the best buy, looking, performing, priced, etc. car in its class. It even owns some cars in a class above it.
The TL did very well if you ask me. Although it is FWD which is suppose to be a dissadvantage traction wise, out performed everyone in straight line test.
What doesn't make since is the number for the G35 and TL. The TL has a huge advantage in the 0 - 60, but only beats the G by .1 seconds in the 1/4 mile??? I would have thought that the TL would continue to pull up to that point given that it has more top end power
I don't see what the fuss is everytime C & D ( who most consider to be the holy grail of Auto Reviews ) says something bad or ranks the TL lower than most of you would have. YOU KNOW that the TL is the best buy, looking, performing, priced, etc. car in its class. It even owns some cars in a class above it.
The TL did very well if you ask me. Although it is FWD which is suppose to be a dissadvantage traction wise, out performed everyone in straight line test.
What doesn't make since is the number for the G35 and TL. The TL has a huge advantage in the 0 - 60, but only beats the G by .1 seconds in the 1/4 mile??? I would have thought that the TL would continue to pull up to that point given that it has more top end power
#93
One thing though, I think Honda/Acura are by far the most innovative car manufacturer in existence
#94
I agree... I just don't think RWD make a car better. its the entire package
I did not see that the TL did bad in the comparo. I think it did well. Glass half full perhaps?
#96
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
They have the most stickers .They are innovative but not the leader.
They have the most stickers .They are innovative but not the leader.
#97
CEO of IMHO
Mercedes (D-C) is arguable the most innovative company out there. The things they innovate trickle down to 'normal' cars between 5 and 10 years. They're already testing steer-by-wire controls, and driving automation technology that is downright amazing.
Also, VW innovates as well: Audi's CVT was very innovative at the time, and their Quattro technology was introduced before its time.
I have always thought that Acura (not as much Honda) had the best interior designs of any brand, in just about any class. And the 04 TL and TSX continue this tradition richly. Now if only Acura would "catch up" and go 100% AWD in their line-up, they wouldn't be able to build plants fast enough to meet demand!
Jon
Also, VW innovates as well: Audi's CVT was very innovative at the time, and their Quattro technology was introduced before its time.
I have always thought that Acura (not as much Honda) had the best interior designs of any brand, in just about any class. And the 04 TL and TSX continue this tradition richly. Now if only Acura would "catch up" and go 100% AWD in their line-up, they wouldn't be able to build plants fast enough to meet demand!
Jon
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Mercedes (D-C) is arguable the most innovative company out there. The things they innovate trickle down to 'normal' cars between 5 and 10 years. They're already testing steer-by-wire controls, and driving automation technology that is downright amazing.
Also, VW innovates as well: Audi's CVT was very innovative at the time, and their Quattro technology was introduced before its time.
I have always thought that Acura (not as much Honda) had the best interior designs of any brand, in just about any class. And the 04 TL and TSX continue this tradition richly. Now if only Acura would "catch up" and go 100% AWD in their line-up, they wouldn't be able to build plants fast enough to meet demand!
Jon
Mercedes (D-C) is arguable the most innovative company out there. The things they innovate trickle down to 'normal' cars between 5 and 10 years. They're already testing steer-by-wire controls, and driving automation technology that is downright amazing.
Also, VW innovates as well: Audi's CVT was very innovative at the time, and their Quattro technology was introduced before its time.
I have always thought that Acura (not as much Honda) had the best interior designs of any brand, in just about any class. And the 04 TL and TSX continue this tradition richly. Now if only Acura would "catch up" and go 100% AWD in their line-up, they wouldn't be able to build plants fast enough to meet demand!
Jon
I would love to see them go AWD.
#99
Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Mercedes (D-C) is arguable the most innovative company out there. The things they innovate trickle down to 'normal' cars between 5 and 10 years. They're already testing steer-by-wire controls, and driving automation technology that is downright amazing.
Also, VW innovates as well: Audi's CVT was very innovative at the time, and their Quattro technology was introduced before its time.
I have always thought that Acura (not as much Honda) had the best interior designs of any brand, in just about any class. And the 04 TL and TSX continue this tradition richly. Now if only Acura would "catch up" and go 100% AWD in their line-up, they wouldn't be able to build plants fast enough to meet demand!
Jon
Mercedes (D-C) is arguable the most innovative company out there. The things they innovate trickle down to 'normal' cars between 5 and 10 years. They're already testing steer-by-wire controls, and driving automation technology that is downright amazing.
Also, VW innovates as well: Audi's CVT was very innovative at the time, and their Quattro technology was introduced before its time.
I have always thought that Acura (not as much Honda) had the best interior designs of any brand, in just about any class. And the 04 TL and TSX continue this tradition richly. Now if only Acura would "catch up" and go 100% AWD in their line-up, they wouldn't be able to build plants fast enough to meet demand!
Jon
#100
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Originally posted by EZZ
I don't know how they got 6.3s to 60 and then 14.6s in the 1/4 for the g35. It just doesn't add up. If the numbers here are true, then the g has better midrange and top end. How do they both trap at 99mph?
I don't know how they got 6.3s to 60 and then 14.6s in the 1/4 for the g35. It just doesn't add up. If the numbers here are true, then the g has better midrange and top end. How do they both trap at 99mph?
#101
Originally posted by winstrolvtec
Very tired of TL not getting proper recognition. This car "overall " hands the others their a$$'s. Then C&D has to go and make up bs category ratings to bring it down a couple of notches. If the TL wins in 0-60, 1/4ml, braking, is the most luxurious, has the best ride, most standard features, and best price, then i dont care who you are, if you have normal means of thinking then you have to agree the TL is the best. If you prefer the handling and the rwd nature of the bmw and g35 then you are in favor of it for that reason and that alone, but that does not make them near better, when clearly they fall short all in all other major areas. Instead of bashing the TL on its fwd drive format they should be praising honda for what they have done and thats create the best fwd ever made much like their beloved bmw's for what they feel is the best rwd. Oh, and by comparing the 325 instead of the 330, your really hiding your biased opinions C&D...thats sarcasm in case you couldnt tell. Same great, even more overpriced car, with a few more ponies, big deal. Really these guys make no sense, they loved the cl-s and loved previous tl-s, any decent competition it was up against hasn't changed, now this car is far better so they're only contradicting themselves.
Very tired of TL not getting proper recognition. This car "overall " hands the others their a$$'s. Then C&D has to go and make up bs category ratings to bring it down a couple of notches. If the TL wins in 0-60, 1/4ml, braking, is the most luxurious, has the best ride, most standard features, and best price, then i dont care who you are, if you have normal means of thinking then you have to agree the TL is the best. If you prefer the handling and the rwd nature of the bmw and g35 then you are in favor of it for that reason and that alone, but that does not make them near better, when clearly they fall short all in all other major areas. Instead of bashing the TL on its fwd drive format they should be praising honda for what they have done and thats create the best fwd ever made much like their beloved bmw's for what they feel is the best rwd. Oh, and by comparing the 325 instead of the 330, your really hiding your biased opinions C&D...thats sarcasm in case you couldnt tell. Same great, even more overpriced car, with a few more ponies, big deal. Really these guys make no sense, they loved the cl-s and loved previous tl-s, any decent competition it was up against hasn't changed, now this car is far better so they're only contradicting themselves.
#102
CEO of IMHO
Nope, it's because of price. It was a comparo of $35k sports sedans. A 330i that you can actually buy would exceed the threshold they set (I think the upper threshold was $37k).
A well-equipped 325i ended up in the mid-30s.
Jon
A well-equipped 325i ended up in the mid-30s.
Jon
Originally posted by SergeyM
I beleive that the main reason C&D did not bring 330 was to give others a chance. G35 used it Acura could not. FWD should go and it will. In 2-3 years Acura will introduce a RWD sedan similar to Lexus IS or G35.
I beleive that the main reason C&D did not bring 330 was to give others a chance. G35 used it Acura could not. FWD should go and it will. In 2-3 years Acura will introduce a RWD sedan similar to Lexus IS or G35.
#103
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Nope, it's because of price. It was a comparo of $35k sports sedans. A 330i that you can actually buy would exceed the threshold they set (I think the upper threshold was $37k).
A well-equipped 325i ended up in the mid-30s.
Jon
Nope, it's because of price. It was a comparo of $35k sports sedans. A 330i that you can actually buy would exceed the threshold they set (I think the upper threshold was $37k).
A well-equipped 325i ended up in the mid-30s.
Jon
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