Buyer's Remorse? Read this:
04-21-2004, 05:38 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Even though I'm sure your furniture friend knows his stuff in general, I disagree with the idea that a grade of leather with a "thick coating of color and preservatives" is necessarily better or will necessarily last longer. I have had some very high quality leather furniture for years that is very "thin" and "supple" and also highly durable. It also feels great. There's a lot more to producing high quality, durable leather than just coating it with stuff. And besides, who cares how long it lasts if it's not comfortable in the first place?
I had my TL professionally detailed. The detailer, though not a leather expert per se, has detailed thousands of cars in his business. When he was done with mine, I asked him if he thought the quality of the TL leather was not so great. He disagreed. He said it was some of the better leather he'd seen in the price range, that only leather on $50+ cars in his experience was consistently of better quality. He was fairly impressed with the materials in the car overall.
I had my TL professionally detailed. The detailer, though not a leather expert per se, has detailed thousands of cars in his business. When he was done with mine, I asked him if he thought the quality of the TL leather was not so great. He disagreed. He said it was some of the better leather he'd seen in the price range, that only leather on $50+ cars in his experience was consistently of better quality. He was fairly impressed with the materials in the car overall.
04-21-2004, 07:59 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by TLGator
Even though I'm sure your furniture friend knows his stuff in general, I disagree with the idea that a grade of leather with a "thick coating of color and preservatives" is necessarily better or will necessarily last longer. I have had some very high quality leather furniture for years that is very "thin" and "supple" and also highly durable. It also feels great. There's a lot more to producing high quality, durable leather than just coating it with stuff. And besides, who cares how long it lasts if it's not comfortable in the first place?
I had my TL professionally detailed. The detailer, though not a leather expert per se, has detailed thousands of cars in his business. When he was done with mine, I asked him if he thought the quality of the TL leather was not so great. He disagreed. He said it was some of the better leather he'd seen in the price range, that only leather on $50+ cars in his experience was consistently of better quality. He was fairly impressed with the materials in the car overall.
I had my TL professionally detailed. The detailer, though not a leather expert per se, has detailed thousands of cars in his business. When he was done with mine, I asked him if he thought the quality of the TL leather was not so great. He disagreed. He said it was some of the better leather he'd seen in the price range, that only leather on $50+ cars in his experience was consistently of better quality. He was fairly impressed with the materials in the car overall.
As to leather in your house, does it have to endure the extremes that the leather in cars does? The heat from a car sitting out in the sun most days? cold in the winter? Dust and dirt due to the environment you drive in?
The reason that "soft and supple" leather is more expensive is that because it is not going to get as much treatment done to it, is must have less flaws in it because they would show.
I don't mean to imply this is the only factor in the quality of leather. I just wanted to share some information that might be of interst to people who don't know much about leather. Just going by feel is not a good indicator. Do you even realize that about half of the material on your seats is not even leather? It's vinyl! Synthetics can be made to feel softer than even the best grades of leather now. Even my friend admits that sometimes he can't tell the difference.
04-21-2004, 08:15 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Yup, the leatherette in my friends' Bimmers has fooled me more than once.
Sorry if I misspoke - I didn't mean to imply that leather is automatically of high grade if it is soft and supple. Cheaper grades of leather can be soft, too, while lacking durability, consistency, and overall quality. But I think that softness and suppleness are qualities good grade leathers do possess.
I just think the leather you described - thickened with colors and preservatives, made to feel like pigskin - is not appealing to me, no matter how well it might wear over time.
Sorry if I misspoke - I didn't mean to imply that leather is automatically of high grade if it is soft and supple. Cheaper grades of leather can be soft, too, while lacking durability, consistency, and overall quality. But I think that softness and suppleness are qualities good grade leathers do possess.
I just think the leather you described - thickened with colors and preservatives, made to feel like pigskin - is not appealing to me, no matter how well it might wear over time.
04-21-2004, 09:12 PM
#44
Blown is Best
Originally Posted by xpditor42
Can you do that with a clear coat? Isn't the orange peel in the color coat? How does that work?
I remember "back in the day", concours type classic cars bragged about having "6 coats of hand-rubbed laquer." I can tell you, whatever they did, the surface was as smooth and blemish-free as a mirror or the surface of still water.
I remember "back in the day", concours type classic cars bragged about having "6 coats of hand-rubbed laquer." I can tell you, whatever they did, the surface was as smooth and blemish-free as a mirror or the surface of still water.
04-21-2004, 11:56 PM
#45
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
"I've just kissed a girl named Ac-ura..." <West Side Story music>
Ahhh... the Dealer got it right this time. 
My car was built at 10:37 pm on the evening of April 12, 2004 on Line #1 at the Marysville, OH Acura plant. It's a healthy baby NBP/Camel Navi 5AT and weighs in a 3574 pounds 14 oz.
Father (me) is doing as well as can be expected. It arrived at the Acura dealer about 2:30 A.M. Even I am not whacked enough to be staking it out at that hour. The VIN is 42,0XX. The tires are the new "TU2" Bridgestone Turenzas. I noticed for the first time that they have a ridge that extends out about 1/4" from the sidewall near the rim of the wheel. It would seem to be there to protect the wheel a bit like the Toyos that someone showed a picture of here.
When they called about 1:00 PM, I went immediately to the dealership and scrutinized the car with all of its protective plastic and cardboard in place. Remember, they goofed on my first car and I rufused delivery as they had managed to scratch the paint when they cleaned it up.
I met with the salesperson, the head of the detailing dept., and "T", the guy who would be getting my car ready for me. We walked to my car and went over it. I told him: NO auto car wash; No brushes; No wax.
We checked the brown film that all cars have "rail dust". It is mostly microscopic ferric oxide (rust particles) kicked up by the steel wheels of the train mixed with road film. The car travels by both rail and transport truck to get to the dealer. Your new car will have more or less rail dust depending on whether it was on the bottom or top tier on the rail car. Bottom is worse. In this case, the rail dust is moderate.
The dealer uses a solvent/sufactant to get rid of the rail dust. It is very costly but does the job. I don't know the name of it. It is a commercial item. After using this, they feel the surface with their fingers to see if it is slick and smooth which is an indicator they got all the rail dust off. If finger tips drag, they will clay bar. This is not necessary on the large flat surface of the hood, roof, and trunk since most of that had the protective plastic in place from the factory.
I did a 360 degree video of the entire car including wheels. It seems to be flawless so far. I just wanted a baseline referrence for my file incase it shows up later with damage anywhere. We will know who is responsible.
Then (This is really "anal"), I handed "T" a lambs wool washing mit and told him to use it and it only on my car. I asked him to treat is as if it were his own that he had just paid $36,000 for. Then, I slipped him a $20 bill and said, "This is to show my respect for your professionalism and my thanks for your personal attention." We agreed that he would not wax the car, but just use a final detail spray to spruce it up for delivery.
I will wash and wax it myself when I get it home. There will be a sign on my garage door all weekend that says, "If this door is rockin', don't bother knockin'" I have laid in a supply of Meguire and Zaino products that should last me for years. If needed, I will clay bar again and then use the Zaino process with Z2/ZFX and finally, Z6.
Oh, yes. I understand you can drive these cars also. Fantastic! I've been thinking about it as if it were a fine piece of garage furniture.
I have pictures of my "new born" with all the stuff on it but I don't know how to post them. Can someone tell me how?
Friday at 2:00, I pick it up. That gives me just one day to paint the garage floor and put up the new shelves for all that Zaino.
XP (feeling much better now)
My car was built at 10:37 pm on the evening of April 12, 2004 on Line #1 at the Marysville, OH Acura plant. It's a healthy baby NBP/Camel Navi 5AT and weighs in a 3574 pounds 14 oz.Father (me) is doing as well as can be expected. It arrived at the Acura dealer about 2:30 A.M. Even I am not whacked enough to be staking it out at that hour. The VIN is 42,0XX. The tires are the new "TU2" Bridgestone Turenzas. I noticed for the first time that they have a ridge that extends out about 1/4" from the sidewall near the rim of the wheel. It would seem to be there to protect the wheel a bit like the Toyos that someone showed a picture of here.
When they called about 1:00 PM, I went immediately to the dealership and scrutinized the car with all of its protective plastic and cardboard in place. Remember, they goofed on my first car and I rufused delivery as they had managed to scratch the paint when they cleaned it up.
I met with the salesperson, the head of the detailing dept., and "T", the guy who would be getting my car ready for me. We walked to my car and went over it. I told him: NO auto car wash; No brushes; No wax.
We checked the brown film that all cars have "rail dust". It is mostly microscopic ferric oxide (rust particles) kicked up by the steel wheels of the train mixed with road film. The car travels by both rail and transport truck to get to the dealer. Your new car will have more or less rail dust depending on whether it was on the bottom or top tier on the rail car. Bottom is worse. In this case, the rail dust is moderate.
The dealer uses a solvent/sufactant to get rid of the rail dust. It is very costly but does the job. I don't know the name of it. It is a commercial item. After using this, they feel the surface with their fingers to see if it is slick and smooth which is an indicator they got all the rail dust off. If finger tips drag, they will clay bar. This is not necessary on the large flat surface of the hood, roof, and trunk since most of that had the protective plastic in place from the factory.
I did a 360 degree video of the entire car including wheels. It seems to be flawless so far. I just wanted a baseline referrence for my file incase it shows up later with damage anywhere. We will know who is responsible.
Then (This is really "anal"), I handed "T" a lambs wool washing mit and told him to use it and it only on my car. I asked him to treat is as if it were his own that he had just paid $36,000 for. Then, I slipped him a $20 bill and said, "This is to show my respect for your professionalism and my thanks for your personal attention." We agreed that he would not wax the car, but just use a final detail spray to spruce it up for delivery.
I will wash and wax it myself when I get it home. There will be a sign on my garage door all weekend that says, "If this door is rockin', don't bother knockin'" I have laid in a supply of Meguire and Zaino products that should last me for years. If needed, I will clay bar again and then use the Zaino process with Z2/ZFX and finally, Z6.
Oh, yes. I understand you can drive these cars also. Fantastic! I've been thinking about it as if it were a fine piece of garage furniture.
I have pictures of my "new born" with all the stuff on it but I don't know how to post them. Can someone tell me how?
Friday at 2:00, I pick it up. That gives me just one day to paint the garage floor and put up the new shelves for all that Zaino.
XP (feeling much better now)
04-22-2004, 05:56 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by xpditor42
Ahhh... the Dealer got it right this time. My car was built at 10:37 pm on the evening of April 12, 2004 on Line #1 at the Marysville, OH Acura plant. It's a healthy baby NBP/Camel Navi 5AT and weighs in a 3574 pounds 14 oz.
Father (me) is doing as well as can be expected. It arrived at the Acura dealer about 2:30 A.M. Even I am not whacked enough to be staking it out at that hour. The VIN is 42,0XX. The tires are the new "TU2" Bridgestone Turenzas. I noticed for the first time that they have a ridge that extends out about 1/4" from the sidewall near the rim of the wheel. It would seem to be there to protect the wheel a bit like the Toyos that someone showed a picture of here.
When they called about 1:00 PM, I went immediately to the dealership and scrutinized the car with all of its protective plastic and cardboard in place. Remember, they goofed on my first car and I rufused delivery as they had managed to scratch the paint when they cleaned it up.
I met with the salesperson, the head of the detailing dept., and "T", the guy who would be getting my car ready for me. We walked to my car and went over it. I told him: NO auto car wash; No brushes; No wax.
We checked the brown film that all cars have "rail dust". It is mostly microscopic ferric oxide (rust particles) kicked up by the steel wheels of the train mixed with road film. The car travels by both rail and transport truck to get to the dealer. Your new car will have more or less rail dust depending on whether it was on the bottom or top tier on the rail car. Bottom is worse. In this case, the rail dust is moderate.
The dealer uses a solvent/sufactant to get rid of the rail dust. It is very costly but does the job. I don't know the name of it. It is a commercial item. After using this, they feel the surface with their fingers to see if it is slick and smooth which is an indicator they got all the rail dust off. If finger tips drag, they will clay bar. This is not necessary on the large flat surface of the hood, roof, and trunk since most of that had the protective plastic in place from the factory.
I did a 360 degree video of the entire car including wheels. It seems to be flawless so far. I just wanted a baseline referrence for my file incase it shows up later with damage anywhere. We will know who is responsible.
Then (This is really "anal"), I handed "T" a lambs wool washing mit and told him to use it and it only on my car. I asked him to treat is as if it were his own that he had just paid $36,000 for. Then, I slipped him a $20 bill and said, "This is to show my respect for your professionalism and my thanks for your personal attention." We agreed that he would not wax the car, but just use a final detail spray to spruce it up for delivery.
I will wash and wax it myself when I get it home. There will be a sign on my garage door all weekend that says, "If this door is rockin', don't bother knockin'" I have laid in a supply of Meguire and Zaino products that should last me for years. If needed, I will clay bar again and then use the Zaino process with Z2/ZFX and finally, Z6.
Oh, yes. I understand you can drive these cars also. Fantastic! I've been thinking about it as if it were a fine piece of garage furniture.
I have pictures of my "new born" with all the stuff on it but I don't know how to post them. Can someone tell me how?
Friday at 2:00, I pick it up. That gives me just one day to paint the garage floor and put up the new shelves for all that Zaino.
XP (feeling much better now)
My car was built at 10:37 pm on the evening of April 12, 2004 on Line #1 at the Marysville, OH Acura plant. It's a healthy baby NBP/Camel Navi 5AT and weighs in a 3574 pounds 14 oz.Father (me) is doing as well as can be expected. It arrived at the Acura dealer about 2:30 A.M. Even I am not whacked enough to be staking it out at that hour. The VIN is 42,0XX. The tires are the new "TU2" Bridgestone Turenzas. I noticed for the first time that they have a ridge that extends out about 1/4" from the sidewall near the rim of the wheel. It would seem to be there to protect the wheel a bit like the Toyos that someone showed a picture of here.
When they called about 1:00 PM, I went immediately to the dealership and scrutinized the car with all of its protective plastic and cardboard in place. Remember, they goofed on my first car and I rufused delivery as they had managed to scratch the paint when they cleaned it up.
I met with the salesperson, the head of the detailing dept., and "T", the guy who would be getting my car ready for me. We walked to my car and went over it. I told him: NO auto car wash; No brushes; No wax.
We checked the brown film that all cars have "rail dust". It is mostly microscopic ferric oxide (rust particles) kicked up by the steel wheels of the train mixed with road film. The car travels by both rail and transport truck to get to the dealer. Your new car will have more or less rail dust depending on whether it was on the bottom or top tier on the rail car. Bottom is worse. In this case, the rail dust is moderate.
The dealer uses a solvent/sufactant to get rid of the rail dust. It is very costly but does the job. I don't know the name of it. It is a commercial item. After using this, they feel the surface with their fingers to see if it is slick and smooth which is an indicator they got all the rail dust off. If finger tips drag, they will clay bar. This is not necessary on the large flat surface of the hood, roof, and trunk since most of that had the protective plastic in place from the factory.
I did a 360 degree video of the entire car including wheels. It seems to be flawless so far. I just wanted a baseline referrence for my file incase it shows up later with damage anywhere. We will know who is responsible.
Then (This is really "anal"), I handed "T" a lambs wool washing mit and told him to use it and it only on my car. I asked him to treat is as if it were his own that he had just paid $36,000 for. Then, I slipped him a $20 bill and said, "This is to show my respect for your professionalism and my thanks for your personal attention." We agreed that he would not wax the car, but just use a final detail spray to spruce it up for delivery.
I will wash and wax it myself when I get it home. There will be a sign on my garage door all weekend that says, "If this door is rockin', don't bother knockin'" I have laid in a supply of Meguire and Zaino products that should last me for years. If needed, I will clay bar again and then use the Zaino process with Z2/ZFX and finally, Z6.
Oh, yes. I understand you can drive these cars also. Fantastic! I've been thinking about it as if it were a fine piece of garage furniture.
I have pictures of my "new born" with all the stuff on it but I don't know how to post them. Can someone tell me how?
Friday at 2:00, I pick it up. That gives me just one day to paint the garage floor and put up the new shelves for all that Zaino.
XP (feeling much better now)
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