gainful

which one is better? Please comment from these aspects:

mechanical quality: engine, tranny, shafts, wheels...

cosmetic quality: paint, panel alignement,...

feature quality: rattles, speakers, plastic, leather...

danno

I think the "QUALITY"of the Lexus is slightly better than the TL, mostly as a luxury point of view only.

jyg tl 3

build quality is a dead tie with my 2000 528 bmw. the lexus is a solid well built well finished auto . tl is not built as well in fit & finish department, es is a luxury auto. rides ok, is quiet and refined, Tl is more or a sports sedan, but not a true sports sedan like a bmw, completely different cars, depens on what ou are looking for.

meathead

mechanical quality - go to acura.com, read under performance.

cosmetic quality - i'd say about the same, but i haven't checked out the lexus that closely.

feature quality - i didn't notice any problems in either car, but i only took a short test drive in the lexus.

overall, it boils down to wheather you like a sportier feel or not. I felt too disconnected from the road in the lexus, it felt like i was floating around. some people don't like the sportier ride of the tl. you have to test drive for yourself.

anokha786

ES 300 is the worst way u can spend ur $30K IMO. It not only looks like a Camry but is built on the same chassis. Mite as well get a glorified camry.

If 1 is considerin a Lexus, which is by far a fine automaker, I think u shud atleast start at the GS430. Altho for the value and money, LS430 is by farrr a steal that is if ur in that buying bracket.

Cheers.
-Ash.

ndabunka

My wife's 2000 RX-300 is the best damn Toyota we ever owned (Also the only one). Pretty good quality on that one. The arguement that the ES300 is simply a camary is about as applicable as saying that the '2004 TL is simply an Accord. It's not true. Where do you people do your research? PS - A friend of mine down the street bought the new ES330 when it came out and it is a nice car. This is my first Acura and I CERTAINLY hope that the Acura dealership's service department is similar to the Lexus dealership. Wife's LOVES Lexus service so I like Lexus cars!

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Lexus blows Acura quality outta the water .. I've owned both, so I can truly attest to this. My '94 ES300 was 120K of trouble-free ownershiop .. no rattles, creaks, .. highest quality service I've ever experienced anywhere .. at multiple dealerships, not just the lexus dealership i purchased it from.

My '02 Acura .. <sigh> .. need i say more?

gainful

I mean assemble craftsmanship and refinement, not the design as either s luxury or sport sedan.

We all know TL and ES300 are for people with different interest, but I want to compare to see which one is well-made.

ndabunka

As far as build quality goes...Most of these things are now assembled via robots so I guess your asking about the fit/finish that a modern mfg plant can produce. Since in most cases the assembly equipment is the same, I'd say that quality-wise, they are equals. That's actually a GOOD thing because it means that the ability to mfg a good quality, sound, stable, quiet design is becoming the norm (rather than the exception). The bar is being raised by these newer cars and they are truely challenging the old stalwarts of the car mfg camps (BMW & Merc). The sound is a good bit quieter in my TL than her RX but then again hers is an SUV with big honking tires so the loudness is expected. Haven't carried a sound meter into my buddies ES330 so can't say on it. His next door neighbor just (the 31st) bought a GS35. We all play golf together on Saturdays so maybe we can do a 3-car drive off one of these days. Probably not enough time to coordinate for tomorrow but one of these days...

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Best way to determine quality of Lexus's .. go to their own forums and read about some of the common quality-related complaints Lexus owners b*tch about ... I did that w/ these awesome Acura forums . and sure enough, my car had all the quirks that I'd read about .. right down to the tranny issues. It was bizzare, in a way.

Go to the www.is300.net, go to the GS forums, and perhaps the other model forums (i know they exist) .. you'll find TONS that you can quite elicit from these Acura forums, or even new Acura owners that recently owned Lexus's.

Best of luck

automophile

My '97 ES300 was a wonderful car - absolutely perfect in every way with fantastic quality. The dealer service was so great I looked forward to taking it in. The car was NOT exciting, but it was silent and smooth.

However, it had horrible, un-supportive seats that I could not tolerate longer than a year. All Lexus products STILL have the same, short, flat, poorly supportive seats. Can't understand it.

The arrival of the TL was really welcome. It makes me realize how much I USED to enjoy driving, and that I can again! The overall quality is not up to Lexus, but is it DARN GOOD. I LOVE the engine!

Turbowhat2

we have an 04TL, 02 RX-300, and 03 ES300...

the lexuses have been unbreakable, and everything is solid as hell, the finish is excellent on all three cars, especially the ES300. The TL is good enough in my opinion also, just some things arent aligned as well and the engine does not feel as smooth on ignition. The ES300 is a great smooth ride, where the TL is stiffer due to sportier suspension.

Why are you comparing the 2 anyways?

samkws

Lexus is better in overall refinement, and the price clearly shows the difference~

i have never seen anyone complaining about their Toyota/Lexus because of the quality...

u can't beat the refinement of a lexus, especially when u r talking about the LS400

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

The LS430 should be standard by which all other makers measure their cars....

vtec 6300

Acura vehicles are made in the USA and Lexus vehicles are made in Japan, enough said.

UminChu

Interesting post. It is certainly true that an ES300 and a Camry share a common platform. Just curious: Should a potential TL buyer 'mite as well get a glorified Accord'?

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

agreed.

jdone

Road apples! For the '00-'03 Tl the only major component that was badly flawed was the transmission-the only major component imported from Japan.

MikeElmendorf

Having previously owned a Lexus SC400 and currently driving a 2003 TL-Type S, which is by far the poorest quality automobile I have had the misfortune of acquiring (and my last car was a Cadillac STS that was better than the Acura!), I can tell you with certainty that the Lexus ES--or any Lexus, for that matter, has a much higher level of quality. A friend of mine just got a new ES, and in addition to having an interior that looks far richer for just about the same price, the quality is head and shoulders above the Acura. Solid, no rattles, quality materials. Car is a little boring driving wise. Next time, not sure the ES is for me, but unless I see a major change here, it will definitely not be another Acura. Too bad, too, because the new TL looks great, and even the TSX which I had yesterday at a loaner was not bad. But I have had too many quality problems with this car, from the transmission failures to the constant squeaks and rattles. Everytime I get in it the car annoys me somehow.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I have to completely agree w/ you as well... i do still enjoy driving my TL-S... but there is always some impending doom i fear lurking in the engine or the tranny... does that inspire confidence in driving a car? I don't think so...

samkws

USA can be as gd as Japan, just a matter that if they want to do it or not~

Lexus new RX is made in USA for now

samkws

wait until u drive a FORD or a Dodge....

Found On Road Dead

Turbowhat2

mercedes had really good quality until Daimler merged with it and now the cars are no longer built in Germany but in the US... my friend's dad as a E-something and he says it has never let them down whereas his mom has a newer E-something which has many problems...

Ken1997TL

I think some of you are confusing reliability, fit/finish and the quality of materials.

In terms of overall reliability, the ES will beat the TL by a bit. Lexii (plural?) tend to beat Acura at this game but not by much.

Fit/finish, again Lexus beats Acura in general. Acura is the number 2 on the list IMO out of all car manufacturers.

Materials tend to be cheaper on Acuras (hence the cost savings), they are still good however.

In terms of mechanical reliability, they are the same. Honda is the world's largest engine company for a reason.


Overall, with a Lexus, you are paying more to get more. Lexus up until recently have all been built in Japan under VERY tight quality control.


Now don't get me wrong, I love Acura, there is more to life than building an appliance, you have to throw in a dash of style and driving passion to make it a car.

1SICKLEX

Sigh...

One of Lexus top selling points is their best in class quality and fit and finish. They are tops in new car quality and 5 year old car quality.

No it is not. The RX will have their loaded models and Hybrid built in Japan. The new plant is in Canada and from my understanding, identical to the Japanese plant. They have taken every precaution to ensure you won't be able to tell where the RX was made.

MikeElmendorf

First off, I wouldn't buy a Ford or a Dodge because of their reputation for questionable quality. Likewise, I did buy an Acura because of their reputation for high quality and reliability--a reputation that my experience of the last year and a half has proven was wholly unwarranted.

Acura is definitely not second in fit and finish in my book. This car rattles worse than anyone I have owned--including a 1990 Buick Riviera I drove in college to more than 100,000 miles.

This car is just poorly assembled, and based on the transmission, poorly designed. And Acura seems content to pretend all is ok.

My last Acura! Lemon law here I come.

ME

1SICKLEX

Well that is kinda expected, considering what u are buying. For a "luxury car", it is cleary pissing tons of people off.

BTW, best friend had his CL-S off to the dealer today, needs a tranny....What a 32k car to buy!

DivinDude

Actually, according to the report filed by Honda to the NHTSA, the tranny was originally sourced in Japan, but production of it (and various parts) moved to the states during the '01 model year.

The facts are .. Acura's engines are awesome (which most will agree) .. it's the rest of the car that is questionable .. including the warping brakes .. squeaking sunroofs .. horrible paint .. crappy leathers ..

I've read many posts on here about '04 TL owners who 'hope' Acura will correct their quality issues .. yeah .. we 2nd gen buyers hoped that too .. guess what .. DIDN'T HAPPEN .. don't expect it to.

Considering many of the reviews I've read seem to indicate that Acura is chasing Lexus .. I'd rather skip the middleman and go right to the prize .. my next car will NOT be an Acura .. I figure I can't do any worse than I've done ......

MikeElmendorf

Divindude, I completely agree. We should not be having any of these problems with this kind of car. Unfortunately, I leased mine, or I would have bagged it when the first transmission went south. In April I will be at 24 months of a 36 month lease. I may just bite the bullet and unload it then. The spared aggravation will be worth the premium.

goofy md

when judging a audimobile company on is quality shouldn't we look a national numbers not a few isolated opinions (I had a pontiac grand prix for 180,000 miles with no problems, does that mean pontiacs are the most reliable cars?) or from forums with bias of the outspokenness and honesty of the members. (although I think the forums are a great place to find out about potential problems just not the absolute numbers).
I believe in the latest quality numbers lexus and acura were #1 and 2 seperated by very little. (not sure of exact numbers?)

TsunamiDC2R

I can tell you the number one reason .....the build quality is better in a Lexus .....than the new TL ......

One is made in Japan .....and one is assembled in the USA ....

Ken1997TL

I would agree.

I sold Hondas. The Accords from Japan had fewer trim problems, fewer misaligned hoods/trunk lids.

Lexus is slightly better in terms of build quality but you pay a lot more.

Call it the law of diminishing returns.

sirbrah

Guys, have you seen the ES? It LOOKS exactly like an camry. On the road, you can't distinguish the two from a distance, where as the TL and the accord look nothing alike... in fact, I'd die before I can settle with the look of the accord.

sirbrah

Only Time will tell, but seriously guys, have a little more faith in an "american built" car, just because it's "american" built, does not mean that it's a GM or Chevy. The camry has been american built for quite some time now, and it's been a solid car nonetheless.
With the globalization of so many industries, it's about time companies started to realize the benefits of building a car where it's going to be sold.

Ken1997TL

I would agree on that. Accords have been built in Ohio since 1982, the longest of any Japanese company.

I had an '88 Accord built in Ohio, was VERY reliable. I just know that overall... well, the numbers speak for themselves.

kgoessling

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TL built on the Accord chassis? Quality/Service wise my TLS is the most disappointing car I have ever owned, not even in the same league with Lexus.

vtechbrain

My TLs was spectacularly reliable. Only maintenance in 40 K was for warped rotors. OTOH I have an uncle that has been unlucky with his. Testimonials are useless to figure out the reliability of a car, you need data. Check consumer reports, The TL has been one of the most reliable cars in the market for years. Even the much ballyhooed tranny problen was statistically insignificant.

sirbrah

Best way to get rid of paranoia: Take what you read on car forums with a grain of salt. Problems get posted for every car that's ever made. Doesn't mean that it'll happen to your car. Read the statistics.

sirbrah

For your information, my parents just bought an ES330, and it is the biggest rip-off ever. Wood trims look good, but the quality and functionality does not hold a candle to the TL, for example, the ES has streaks of rubber on the wind-shield from the wipper-blades, the lighting for the stereo is missing pixels, one of the windows is rattling, and the car doesn't feel very solid. They had to take it into service twice already to fix the above problems. I haven't had ANY problems with the TL.

chiawei

Same reasoning applies to both TSX and TL as both are build on the accord chassis.