Brake Pads replacement for TL-S??
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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I contacted Centric Parts about their 100 series OEM compound for the 6MT/TLS and they forwarded me to Dave Zeckhausen of Zeckhausen Racing. He tells me this about the pads:
I then responded telling him of my concern about the ABS/TCS/EBD systems requiring the OEM coefficient of friction. I also asked about proper break-in. This was his response.
For those interested in the subject, and the time and patience to learn, there is some really excellent info contained in the links. He also pointed me to a book on high performance brake systems for those that enjoy extended reading.
So what does all the above information tell me? You can't go wrong with any of the following pads.
- Acura
- Stoptech 309 series
- Centric OEM/100 series
But I definitely wouldn't use anything less.
Originally Posted by Dave Z
The D1001 shape is used by a wide range of applications, including the Caddy CTS-V, Chevy Camaro SS 6.2, Ford GT, Mustang GT500, Mitsu Lancer EVO, Subaru WRX STi, and Volvo S60R/V70R. Depending on application, the OEM supplier was either Jurid, Ferodo, or Galfer, providing compounds in 3 different friction ranges. All are characterized by low-metallic composition and are abrasive (vs adherent), have good low-speed bite (or are "grabby" depending on your perspective), and are relatively hard on rotors. Centric Parts is currently using the Jurid formula from the Volvo V70R. However, their choice of formula may change in the future.
For the majority of customers with Brembo calipers who want to maintain high performance, but at a more reasonable price, we suggest the StopTech Street Performance pads. These have good bite and friction, yet relatively low dust and noise compared to the OEM pads. Their extremely high fade resistance makes them usable even at the track, long after the pads that came with your Brembo calipers would have faded. I have them on my 2007 Corvette Z51 and have been unable to fade them during multiple track days. Yet they are smooth and quiet when driving on the street. I also have them on my BMW 540i and Chrysler 300C SRT8 and think they are the best street pads I've ever used.
For the majority of customers with Brembo calipers who want to maintain high performance, but at a more reasonable price, we suggest the StopTech Street Performance pads. These have good bite and friction, yet relatively low dust and noise compared to the OEM pads. Their extremely high fade resistance makes them usable even at the track, long after the pads that came with your Brembo calipers would have faded. I have them on my 2007 Corvette Z51 and have been unable to fade them during multiple track days. Yet they are smooth and quiet when driving on the street. I also have them on my BMW 540i and Chrysler 300C SRT8 and think they are the best street pads I've ever used.
Originally Posted by Dave Z
I've learned that brake pad selection can indeed affect vehicle stability control and, to a lesser extent, ABS functionality. ABS is a closed loop (adaptive) system, so it learns from the way your brakes respond and rapidly converges on an optimal solution. However, dynamic stability control is open-loop, consisting of a series of discreet "hits" on individual brake calipers to try to force the car along the driver's intended path. If a car is equipped with significantly lower bite pads than stock, the car may take longer to stabilize, rendering that driver aid less effective.
The sort of testing that takes place during the design phase of a new vehicle's brake system was replicated by StopTech to validate or fine-tune a new big brake kit design. James Walker Jr. was leading the Corvette C6 vehicle dynamics team at General Motors (as a Delphi manager) when he was hired as a consultant to help StopTech come up with these brake tests. See: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm for a write-up I did almost a decade ago. The test equipment and procedures have become more sophisticated since then. It may be time for me to revisit this article!
The StopTech Street Performance pads are close enough to your factory pads to function well with your electronic stability aids and ABS. They are an abrasive pad, so they may chew away their own transfer layer with extended gentle driving. But they respond well to bedding and may even require occasion rebedding, if you're not an aggressive, late-braker. Without seeing your technique and your rotors, I can't tell if you bedded them sufficiently. But this should be your guideline for bedding: http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm. No legal departments involved here, toning the process down to make it safer. This is the ideal technique for virtually all pads.
Dave Z.
The sort of testing that takes place during the design phase of a new vehicle's brake system was replicated by StopTech to validate or fine-tune a new big brake kit design. James Walker Jr. was leading the Corvette C6 vehicle dynamics team at General Motors (as a Delphi manager) when he was hired as a consultant to help StopTech come up with these brake tests. See: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm for a write-up I did almost a decade ago. The test equipment and procedures have become more sophisticated since then. It may be time for me to revisit this article!
The StopTech Street Performance pads are close enough to your factory pads to function well with your electronic stability aids and ABS. They are an abrasive pad, so they may chew away their own transfer layer with extended gentle driving. But they respond well to bedding and may even require occasion rebedding, if you're not an aggressive, late-braker. Without seeing your technique and your rotors, I can't tell if you bedded them sufficiently. But this should be your guideline for bedding: http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm. No legal departments involved here, toning the process down to make it safer. This is the ideal technique for virtually all pads.
Dave Z.
So what does all the above information tell me? You can't go wrong with any of the following pads.
- Acura
- Stoptech 309 series
- Centric OEM/100 series
But I definitely wouldn't use anything less.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 445
Likes: 67
From: Columbus, o_hi_o
After reading this thread, I think I'm going to stick with OEM pads instead of aftermarkets (for now) because I'm keeping the stock rotors.
The car is at 39k miles (don't know if these are original pads), but the front pads are ready to call it quits pretty soon. Going to grab OEM pads from http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/ and just change those. The rotors look fine to me.
Although when I called the stealership to get a quote on parts/labor, they were annoyingly persistent that i HAD to change the rotors since it was a Type-S.
I was just going to pop the wheels off and change the pads and leave it at that. Anything else I should be concerned about?
The car is at 39k miles (don't know if these are original pads), but the front pads are ready to call it quits pretty soon. Going to grab OEM pads from http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/ and just change those. The rotors look fine to me.
Although when I called the stealership to get a quote on parts/labor, they were annoyingly persistent that i HAD to change the rotors since it was a Type-S.
I was just going to pop the wheels off and change the pads and leave it at that. Anything else I should be concerned about?
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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Yeah stealership will always tell you that. In the UK, nobody ever swaps or machines rotors for pad replacements. They just replace them once they are too thin or vibrate to the point where a re-bed won't fix it.
Thread Starter
Go Pats!
Joined: May 2011
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From: Orlando,FL
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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Here is what Dave had to say about mixing/matching front & rear pad compounds...
Based on this info, I will go with Stoptech all around when I change pads simply for the reduced dust. Lower cost and higher temp operating range are definitely an added bonus.
Originally Posted by Dave Z
The Acura TL rear pads are a combination NAO & ceramic material with an FF friction rating, which is the same friction rating as the StopTech Street Performance pads AND the factory front pads. The 100-Series pads in front, combined with the StopTech pads in back will yield the closest overall dynamics at all speeds to factory performance. But StopTech pads all around will work fine and be smoother at low speeds. Since these are all close in overall friction levels, the only issue is personal preference on low-speed behavior.
Dave Z.
Dave Z.
Last edited by 94eg!; Apr 11, 2012 at 04:32 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Port Moody BC "Wet Coast"
i need to replace my rotors at this time. I have an 08 TL Type S with 50K miles on it. The rotors have been turned and are now too thin for me to bother turning again. I am strongly considering the Brakemotive slotted and drilled rotors and Stoptech Street Performance pads for front and rear. I was wondering if anyone can comment on this combination and where can I order the Stoptech pads for the best price shipped within Conti US?
Thread Starter
Go Pats!
Joined: May 2011
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From: Orlando,FL
MV612
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Mpls,MN
mine were look good at 40k and i think i could of run them til 65k til it would need to be replace or turned. i just replace them all with steinless steel lines and fluid with power slot n stop tech all at once ,so i dont have to worry til later again.
Thread Starter
Go Pats!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 228
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From: Orlando,FL
ok i just got my Michelin pilot super sport installed and the car drives like day and night compare to the stock tires. The car feel so stable and acceleration is a lot better now. the guy that installed my tires saw my stoptech brake pads and recommend me to change my rotors to drilled/slotted since the performance brake pads are really aggressive and will eat up my rotors. He told me he had hawk pads with stock rotors and after one year the rotors was really bad. My question is, have anyone experience this kind of problem while running stoptech / hawk performance pads???
Thread Starter
Go Pats!
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From: Orlando,FL
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 45
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From: Weston, Fl 33326
Slotted rotors help cooling and excavating water, just give you a funny noise when applying breaks. if you are a hard breaker and get them hot I would suggest cryo treated rotors.
Tires, suspension, and breaks were my first upgrades on all my cars. Can't wait to do my a-spec suspension swap.
Tires, suspension, and breaks were my first upgrades on all my cars. Can't wait to do my a-spec suspension swap.
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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If you didn't have problems with the original OEM rotors, then they are perfectly fine for how you drive. Stoptech pads won't be very different at all. Slotted are good if you go racing, but I would not waste extra money on them for street. If I were to buy new rotors, I would go with Centric's non-directional Hi-Carbon option.
Street rotors options by Centric/Stoptech (cheapest to most expensive):
- C-TEK (cheapo) (121 prefix)
- Centric Premium (120 prefix)
- Centric Premium, Cryo (120 prefix C suffix)
- Centric High Carbon Alloy (125 prefix)
- Centric High Carbon Alloy, Cryo (125 prefix C suffix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled, Directional Vane (128 prefix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled, Directional Vane, Cryo (128 prefix C suffix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled & Slotted, Directional Vane (127 prefix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled & Slotted, Directional Vane, Cryo (127 prefix C suffix)
Semi-Race Rotors by Centric/Stoptech:
- Centric Powerslot, High Carbon Alloy, directional vane (126 prefix)
- Centric Powerslot, High Carbon Alloy, directional vane, Cryo (126 prefix C suffix)
Here is a link with all the options and helpful instructions on how to choose the right setup for you: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Acura/TL_Gen3.htm
The Cryo options I've only seen from TireRack: http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...d+Transmission
Street rotors options by Centric/Stoptech (cheapest to most expensive):
- C-TEK (cheapo) (121 prefix)
- Centric Premium (120 prefix)
- Centric Premium, Cryo (120 prefix C suffix)
- Centric High Carbon Alloy (125 prefix)
- Centric High Carbon Alloy, Cryo (125 prefix C suffix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled, Directional Vane (128 prefix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled, Directional Vane, Cryo (128 prefix C suffix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled & Slotted, Directional Vane (127 prefix)
- Centric Sportstop Drilled & Slotted, Directional Vane, Cryo (127 prefix C suffix)
Semi-Race Rotors by Centric/Stoptech:
- Centric Powerslot, High Carbon Alloy, directional vane (126 prefix)
- Centric Powerslot, High Carbon Alloy, directional vane, Cryo (126 prefix C suffix)
Here is a link with all the options and helpful instructions on how to choose the right setup for you: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Acura/TL_Gen3.htm
The Cryo options I've only seen from TireRack: http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...d+Transmission
Last edited by 94eg!; Apr 14, 2012 at 11:25 AM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 482
Likes: 11
From: Nashville, TN
Well I finally had a chance to replace my front pads for my 06 6MT. Thanks to a lot of DIY threads on this site, it was a very easy job, a lot easier than conventional calipers with bolts. The right ones are the new Wagner Thermoquiet ones that I always have bought for all of my cars.
Head a da Family
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,505
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From: New Friggin Jerzy
Well I finally had a chance to replace my front pads for my 06 6MT. Thanks to a lot of DIY threads on this site, it was a very easy job, a lot easier than conventional calipers with bolts. The right ones are the new Wagner Thermoquiet ones that I always have bought for all of my cars.
Stopping power, dust, noise, etc.
I'm considering them for my next brake job.
.
.
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 40
Likes: 5
From: Brooklyn, NY
I installed hawk pads on my type s and its quiet and its stops hard just like the brembo ones. the good feature from the hawk brake pads the dust is like a silver grey residue so it blends in to the wheels. i rarely clean my wheels because its not a lot of brake dust. which is what i love
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 40
Likes: 5
From: Brooklyn, NY
just some info buddy
I installed hawk pads on my type s and its quiet and its stops hard just like the brembo ones. the good feature from the hawk brake pads the dust is like a silver grey residue so it blends in to the wheels. i rarely clean my wheels because its not a lot of brake dust. which is what i love.
Hawk HPS are very good brakes. They Cost me 200 Bucks but i believe in good quality products so you get what you pay for. i Dont do track just normal highway and city driving so my pads are durable and quiet and show very low brake dust
Hawk HPS are very good brakes. They Cost me 200 Bucks but i believe in good quality products so you get what you pay for. i Dont do track just normal highway and city driving so my pads are durable and quiet and show very low brake dust
^ $200.00? Why is it so $$$? I paid $103.00 for mine.
I installed Hwak performance ceramic pads for front on my TL this afternoon. My OEM pads still have about 70% life left. OEM pads make a lot of dust!!!! I can not stand on brake dust. and i'm gonna put my wheels back on soon. I don't wanna clean my wheels every couple of days.
I installed Hwak performance ceramic pads for front on my TL this afternoon. My OEM pads still have about 70% life left. OEM pads make a lot of dust!!!! I can not stand on brake dust. and i'm gonna put my wheels back on soon. I don't wanna clean my wheels every couple of days.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: Houston
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
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From: Bakersfield
This thread is so full of fail! Nice to see 94eg in here clearing some of it up. For starters:
You don't want drilled rotors. Every drilled rotor will crack given enough time... period.
There is no need to machine a rotor during a pad change unless they're warped and in most cases it's just brake pad material transfer that's stuck to the rotors.
Slotted are fine for street use. Unnecessary but won't hurt anything.
Tires determine stopping distances, not the brakes or pads. If you want the absolute shortest stopping distances you should have gone with better tires, not over priced Michelins.
If you're not having brake fade issues, you don't need better pads, not as far as performance is concerned.
Hawk makes some decent pads but they're kind of like Optima batteries, living off of an old reputation. Many good or better products for less money.
The Stoptech street pads have excellent fade resistance and good cold bite. The friction changes just a tiny bit when they get hot but they're very consistent.
The Brembos are only 12.2" in diameter, the TL weighs 3,500-3,700lbs without the driver with most of the weight on the front tires. A full weight TL will fade the stock Brembos under track conditions if you're not careful. They're adequate but they're not exactly oversized for the weight of the car. You should never have to worry about brake fade with a good street pad like the stoptechs even with spirited street driving but if you ever track it, you will need a race pad. I have 13" brakes up front, my car weighs 3,800lbs with me in it and I can fade the brakes if I'm really hard on it.
If it doesn't rain or snow a whole lot in your area you might consider removing the dust shields behind the rotors. This made a significant difference in cooling of my brakes, more than I ever thought it would. I've been through puddles, no issues ever.
Don't forget about brake fluid. #1 is getting new fluid in there because moisture is your #1 enemy, significantly lower the boiling point. You have two kinds of fade, pad fade, and boiling of the brake fluid. Pad fade usually gives you some kind of warning and they come back pretty quickly. Boiling the fluid happens all at once and it can take a while to get your brakes back. I've tried a few different brands in the Tl and so far I've had the best luck with Motul 600. I chose this fluid because not only is the dry boiling point high, the wet boiling point which is more indicative of real world performance is very high.
You'll tend to fade the pads first but fluid will boil over extended fun runs. The rotor surface runs way hotter than the fluid's boiling point almost all of the time so if you drive it hard long enough you're going to eventually transfer enough heat into the fluid to boil it. Coming to a complete stop with the brakes applied after a hard run can boil the fluid as well.
If it were mine, I would run the stock rotors, Motul fluid, and Stoptech street pads. That would be a very nice combo with zero downsides and pretty cheap as well.
You don't want drilled rotors. Every drilled rotor will crack given enough time... period.
There is no need to machine a rotor during a pad change unless they're warped and in most cases it's just brake pad material transfer that's stuck to the rotors.
Slotted are fine for street use. Unnecessary but won't hurt anything.
Tires determine stopping distances, not the brakes or pads. If you want the absolute shortest stopping distances you should have gone with better tires, not over priced Michelins.
If you're not having brake fade issues, you don't need better pads, not as far as performance is concerned.
Hawk makes some decent pads but they're kind of like Optima batteries, living off of an old reputation. Many good or better products for less money.
The Stoptech street pads have excellent fade resistance and good cold bite. The friction changes just a tiny bit when they get hot but they're very consistent.
The Brembos are only 12.2" in diameter, the TL weighs 3,500-3,700lbs without the driver with most of the weight on the front tires. A full weight TL will fade the stock Brembos under track conditions if you're not careful. They're adequate but they're not exactly oversized for the weight of the car. You should never have to worry about brake fade with a good street pad like the stoptechs even with spirited street driving but if you ever track it, you will need a race pad. I have 13" brakes up front, my car weighs 3,800lbs with me in it and I can fade the brakes if I'm really hard on it.
If it doesn't rain or snow a whole lot in your area you might consider removing the dust shields behind the rotors. This made a significant difference in cooling of my brakes, more than I ever thought it would. I've been through puddles, no issues ever.
Don't forget about brake fluid. #1 is getting new fluid in there because moisture is your #1 enemy, significantly lower the boiling point. You have two kinds of fade, pad fade, and boiling of the brake fluid. Pad fade usually gives you some kind of warning and they come back pretty quickly. Boiling the fluid happens all at once and it can take a while to get your brakes back. I've tried a few different brands in the Tl and so far I've had the best luck with Motul 600. I chose this fluid because not only is the dry boiling point high, the wet boiling point which is more indicative of real world performance is very high.
You'll tend to fade the pads first but fluid will boil over extended fun runs. The rotor surface runs way hotter than the fluid's boiling point almost all of the time so if you drive it hard long enough you're going to eventually transfer enough heat into the fluid to boil it. Coming to a complete stop with the brakes applied after a hard run can boil the fluid as well.
If it were mine, I would run the stock rotors, Motul fluid, and Stoptech street pads. That would be a very nice combo with zero downsides and pretty cheap as well.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: MA
I got the slotted rotors + pads combo from xlr8 and they have been perfect so far. No noise, dust is low, braking is decent. No complaints so far.
Had the autozone ceramics + rotors before and the pads just ate through the rotor in less than 15k miles. I would avoid ceramic pads that are too aggressive.
Had the autozone ceramics + rotors before and the pads just ate through the rotor in less than 15k miles. I would avoid ceramic pads that are too aggressive.
Good information BTW!
Racer
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 468
Likes: 43
From: Charleston, SC
I can vouch for Hawk HPS Street pads. I replaced all of my pads (front and rear, simultaneously, for the best performance) with Hawk HPS Street pads, and they are amazing. The bite on them is, by far, noticeably better than the stock pads. I've also noted much less dusting than the stock Brembo's as well.
I would recommend replacing all of your pads at the same time, to get proper wear. For maximum performance, switch to StopTech drilled/slotted rotors (or the rotors of your choice), stainless steel brake lines, and change your brake fluid (make sure you know how to properly bleed them), with Motul fluid.
If you have any questions about them, please feel free to send me a PM!
I would recommend replacing all of your pads at the same time, to get proper wear. For maximum performance, switch to StopTech drilled/slotted rotors (or the rotors of your choice), stainless steel brake lines, and change your brake fluid (make sure you know how to properly bleed them), with Motul fluid.
If you have any questions about them, please feel free to send me a PM!
#1 Super Guy!
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Racer
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 468
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From: Charleston, SC
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
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Got my front (Powerslot) rotors and (Hawks) pads replaced on my TL-S 07 last week. Holding strong at 64K. This is my third pads counted the stock and first for the rotors. Also flush the brake fluid, first time too.
Ilove this site, it got tons of info
)) - i was able to get the cold start noise coming from under the hood with for $2. aweeeesommme...
Check this out !! This is when i was trying to remove the DAMM screw from the rotors.
Another thing that i am not able to figured out yet is the (cluck cluck or click click sound like coming from the passenger side) every time accelerated from a completed stop.
Check this out !!! This is when i tried to remove the DAMM screws from the Rotors with the impact screwdriver.
second picture
Ilove this site, it got tons of info
)) - i was able to get the cold start noise coming from under the hood with for $2. aweeeesommme...Check this out !! This is when i was trying to remove the DAMM screw from the rotors.
Another thing that i am not able to figured out yet is the (cluck cluck or click click sound like coming from the passenger side) every time accelerated from a completed stop.
Check this out !!! This is when i tried to remove the DAMM screws from the Rotors with the impact screwdriver.
second picture
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
When you drill out the set screw, you need to use a large drill bit like a 7/16". You're not trying to drill through the screw, you're just drilling the head off. It should not take more than 5 seconds of drilling.
