slimcb

Here's the oil report from my first oil change at 2950. The MID showed 60% life left. My driving consists predominantly of shorter trips (3 miles or less) which is why I decided to change the oil after being in use for 6 months. I know, I need to drive the car more, but that's one of the side-effects of living less than a mile from work. :-) I guess the report doesn't look too bad or abnormal for break-in, but I probably should have changed the oil earlier as the insolubles are a bit high and viscosity is oddly low.

SodaLuvr

What oil did you refill with?

There seems to be some significant additive pack depletion, probably caused by the short trips and the fact that the oil was in use for 6 months.

The shearing is caused by the fuel dilution accumulated from the short trips. My mom's car sees the same type of driving, and I stick to a 6 Month Oil Change Interval for her, MAX.

For your application, I recommend using this oil:



It has a good molybdenum content and a nice additive pack. You should use it along with Lube Control (LC) at a 6 ounce initial dose and a 1 ounce/1,000 mile maintenance dose. That should keep your TBN up, keep your engine cleaner, and it may even help your viscosity. (don't count it though)

More explanation in my post in this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113480

BTW, this engine tends to break-in "very dirty," meaning higher wear metals than most. A few short intervals, and your engine will look like this:



There really isn't any point of using a synthetic for your application, since a 6 month OCI is probably your limit because of your driving style. (Too much fuel that gets accumulated and not enough long trips to burn off the fuel; you wouldn't want to leave the oil in your car for the whole year, it may shear even more and will affect the TBN negatively as more fuel gets accumulated) At 3K drains, its a waste and you can receive the same benefits by using Havoline 5w-30, Purolator PureOne Oil Filter, and LC at the 6 oz initial dose and 1oz/1,000 mile maintenance dose.

Michael

slimcb

Michael,

Thanks for the informative reply. I refilled with Havoline 5w30 (GF4, SM spec), based upon the excellent info in this forum. I would have used Havoline 5w20, but I couldn't find it at any store in my area in the SM spec. I used a PureOne oil filter.

I'm a bit new at interpreting UOAs, so could you please explain how you came to the conclusion of "there seems to be some significant additive pack depletion." Is this based upon the lower TBN when compared to the lower number of miles on the oil, are you referencing specific items in the "elements" section, or both? Also, if I forego the LC additive and assuming that my type of driving remains the same, do you think that I should reduce my OCI to 4 or 5 months?

JackSprat01

heh heh, Michael just can't get anyone to use that lube control.

SodaLuvr

I take that back, there is some additive depletion (more than I expected) but not to the severity that I emphasized earlier. Your Zinc and Calcium is quite a bit lower compared to another 2005 TL's factory fill. The other 2005 TL had 1689ppm of Ca and 834ppm of Zinc compared to yours. Your TBN is normal for your type of driving.

I recommend the Lube Control additive to keep your engine as clean as possible. Your oil can go 6 months/5,000 miles judging from your analysis, so even if you decide not to run LC, if you run your oil for 6 months or 4,000 miles, you'd still have a lot of life left in the oil. No worries.

Michael

RacialSlurs

full synth it and forget about the silly lab tests. are you really gonna lab test it everytime and chnage the type of oil accordingly everytime.

HEK

1st thanks for the very informative topic, but let me ask slimcb, what made you do this test, have you done it in the past for other vehicles and how did you go about it?
I normally go back to this gas station to return all my dirty oil since they recycle it, and never would have thought of sending a sample out for testing....

Xpditor

Used oil analysis, especially if done since new, allows you to keep track of the wear on each critical engine part. It is routinely done on commercial fleets.

It costs between $15-20. You can contact Blackstone (and others) and they will send you a mailing container and instructions on collecting a sample of used oil. They will email you the results- usually the same day they test.

The average TL driver probably will never do this. But for us picky gear heads who plan on keeping the car for a long time, it's worth it for the peace of mind, IMO.

RacialSlurs

one buys a $40k car to buy quality & trust of the engineers who built it. if they say "full synth is ok and change when the MID says to", then that's about all i want to pay for and expect the motor to live a long time.

let Honda do oil analysis to see if the crud is breaking or wearing not as expected.

Xpditor

As I said: To each his own. If that satisfies you and you're happy, I'm happy.

My first oil analysis showed a high level of wear metals and a deterioration of the factory fill after 3300 miles and 10 months. The MID said "50% Oil Life".

I am more particular about how I treat my engine. I don't have the same trust in "idiot light" technology that you do. But that's me. If I followed the MID, I would be going over a year on the same tired oil.

I enjoy working on my car. To me, it is as much fun as driving it. I also keep a car a long time. The last one was 14 years. I prefer to err on the safe side when it comes to preventative maintenance. It's cheap insurance.

JackSprat01

Another way to look at it is that unless you're a completely cheap bastard, if you can afford a $40k car, you can afford a measly $20 on an oil test a couple times per year.

Road Rage

This is a bit of narrow-minded. I agree with you in principle, but you completely ignore the fact that all good intentions of the engineers aside, there are mechanical failures that oil analysis can reveal long before they become major problems. Example: finding coolant in the oil from an oil analysis, at say, 35,990 miles could very well save you the cost of new cylinder head gaskets, let alone replacing a short or long block if it turns out the block is cracked, or suffers from porosity leakage. Or high silicon content might reveal that your air filter, or the box itself, is defective, and that the engine may suffer premature wear of the cam lobes and/or rings from the grinding material in excess.

RacialSlurs

better off sending your $40/yr to the Red Cross, the oil tests you are doing wont help your motor live or peform better.

JackSprat01

Do you listen to anything anyone tells you? First, the charity bullshit is a piss-poor argument that can be used to defend any flimsy position. Do you go out to dinner? Watch a movie? Play a game? Buy a dose of Viagra? All of that could go to Red Cross as well, so please do be the top philanthropist among us. We give to charity as well but sleep at night just fine even if we test our oil.

Now lets get to the listening part. As RR put it very plainly, these oil tests CAN make your car perform better and live longer by detecting problems EARLY. Your car could chug along well for many miles antifreeze in the oil, but it's performance will undoubtedly decrease toward the end...which will be soon. If you don't want to open your mind to common sense and logic, there is no help for you here so perhaps you'll let us discuss our interests without hassle amongst ourselves.

JetJock

I agree that each to his own concerning oil analysis. You certainly don't need it, but it's cheap insurance and peace of mind knowing what's going on with your engine. I waited until my MID showed <30% before changing my oil. According to the MID, I could have gone over 1 year on the original oil. My analysis showed a lot of wear metal, and the oil was shot so I don't put much faith in the MID technology. It's just a base guideline and is better than nothing, but having the oil analysis done proved it was wrong and my oil was worn out before the MID said to change the oil. I don't think saving a few $$ on oil is the way to go when you have a $35K automobile. I'd rather err on the side of keeping my engine healthy and spend a few extra $$ on the analysis for the peace of mind it provides.

JackSprat01

JetJock, you bring up another excellent point. Many OAs have shown huge additive depletion while the MID twiddles it's thumbs at 30% or more. It's better than nothing, but clearly not as smart as an oil analysis.

RacialSlurs

like i said before, MID is worthless as you just proved.

you did not say at what miles you saw all this metal in the oil. if it was your 1st drop then its all as expected since the motor is shedding off and seating. doing a few early oil drops will flush out that crap. no need to worry about that mysterious oil additive thats in the oem fill, it delays the seating process since molybdenum disulfide is a lubricant.

RacialSlurs

do you test your domestic water 2wice per year?
do you have blood work done 2wice per year?

if not then you're a fool to worry about the silly oil. why exactly did you decide to get on the oil analysis band-wagon? its just cool to do right? did you read somewhere some cases where it would have saved the motor? please post any relevant cases for a Honda motor cuz i'd luv to read up on them.

Road Rage

I think RS needs to do some research on St. Jude. He is about the most argumentative, cyncial new member in recent memory - nothing positive to say, nothing to contribute, it's all about his half-baked "knowledge" and incontrovertible opinions, no matter how persuasive the poignant comments of anyone else, including DD and JJ. He uses Red Herring arguments and ad hominem attacks consistently - look them up.

Oh yeah - I give thousands to charities every year - and do oil analyses - how messed up is that?

RacialSlurs

if you read some of the other posts by others quoting me and saying "RS is correct", i'd say you have a hard case to prove me wrong otherwise.

some of your advice seems oddball at best, while others seem sane.


oil additives - crap, not proven
mixing octanes - waste of time, not worth mentioning
oil analysis - not likely to help much with a Honda built motor

i'm not preaching to anyone to do anything, i'm just pointing out the other side which you and others fail to mention.

but thanks for your input, now let others think for themselves

SBTL

This is like forehead windburn it’s so over my head. Even though I hate to admit it...on this one I have to agree with RacialSlurs. It's not like we’re driving a race car where it's worth the time and expense to pursue every means conceivable of improving performance in the hopes of winning a high-dollar purse. You all would be better off measuring you cholesterol levels twice a year (best is the VAP cholesterol test by Atherotech at www.getavap.com). Beware…your TL may outlive you!

RacialSlurs2

nugget mods banned me, dunno why, maybe their twitch came back and felt i was making those other know-it-alls look bad?

Ron A

And we did it again. Bring on #3.

JackSprat01

Kuntzbar

What is he banned for?