need4spd

So you don't think big brother is watching, well, I suspect that the 04 TL has just what is indicated below, a little black box that records most of this stuff, all under the name of OBD-II

Here is to black boxes!


From the Car Connection today!

NHTSA says no to data recorders but wants more data

Data recorders that collect information on speed, seatbelt use, braking, and other aspects of driver behavior shouldn't be required, federal regulators said Thursday. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration turned down a petition to mandate such data recorders, saying that automakers were phasing them into new vehicles at a good rate voluntarily.

About 15 percent of vehicles now on the road have the data recorders, and NHTSA says between 65 percent and 90 percent of 2004 vehicles have some sort of recording ability.

While not mandating recorders, NHTSA nevertheless said it wants recorders that are being installed without regulation to collect a standard set of data to help crash investigators. By September 2008, the agency wants recorders to collect up to 42 specific data elements, including the time it takes for air bags to deploy. That data is already collected by many automakers.

The NHTSA proposal also would require manufacturers to include a statement in owners' manuals telling people the data recorders exist. Nearly two-thirds of people surveyed by an insurance industry group didn't know their vehicles had black boxes.

Lawyers have sought clarification on who owns the data collected in the recorders, wanting to use the data in lawsuits. But NHTSA didn't even try to clarify ownership. "All that is for courts and legislation to decide," NHTSA spokesman Tim Hurd said. -Jim Burt

rets

Maybe we do have... but at least, without the special equipment, the Acura dealership seems not to be able to know how I've been driving...

There was a similar thread discussing this EDR stuff in Dec or Jan, right?

I remembered the aircraft black box consisted of magnetic tapes (less than 30 minutes) in the early ages, then so-called memory boards (which could reocrd 20-25 hours of equipment data plus 2-2.5 hours of voice data) take over the system. The operation mechanism is all the same; when new material is recorded, the oldest data is overridden due to its cycle.

The safety guess, IMHO, is that our car only can record data with a short period of time (maybe less than 10 or 15 seconds) prior to the big "moment". The recorder, either mini-HD or flash memory, will keep overriding the old data after reaching its end of the loop. Until the significant impact and accident take place, the recorder won't stop overriding the existed data. This EDR (event data recorder??) would only mark the histories of those sensor (on/off), ECU, air bags deployment time/status, speed, rpm, brake, fuel, impact time, ignition/throttle of engine, car's angle of inclination, etc...

Perhaps, if you have Navi, they could even record additional stuff or have the secondary EDR for it separately.

Yes, this does look like the breach of privacy, but it could be good for consumers if cars' owners are well aware of the such system existed in their vehicles. At least, I believe this system is better than the tracking system of Navi if we do have... (actually I don't think 04TL's Navi could be tracked... )

:o

neuronbob

There was a huge stink a couple of years ago when it became widely known that GM was installing these devices into their cars; the information has even been used in court already IIRC. Eventually the lawyers will get what they want--information about how someone was driving before even a mild accident. I thought that recorded information was not admissible in court unless you were told beforehand? Perhaps a lawyer would care to comment on the legal issues.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

It was for research purposes for the air bag system, and any data gathered on the unit was the property of GM. Therefore, they could use it in any way they wanted.

The guy with the Corvette that rear-ended a Metro was found guilty of drunk driving, and speeding. He was going 100+ the moment before he rear-ended the car, as it was recorded in the "black box."

I don't know what you guys are so paranoid about. If anything, you should be concerned with the OnStar system, because they are monitoring your speed and location 24/7.

kosh2258

Of course there's a black box in the TL. That "black box" is what determines whether the airbags will deploy and which ones in an accident.

That box is measuring speed, acceleration/deceleration rates, and g forces acting on the vehicle to decide which bag(s) to deploy and whether to deploy them full force or lower force in the case of the front bags.

The question is how many seconds or minutes of data is the device capable of storing and does our right to privacy trump the governments right to intrude into that privacy by having access to the data in that box in the event of an accident.

Let's face it people, our technology is advancing a lot faster than societies ability to cope with it and the implications of it. The people designing these devices have good intent in most cases, but, as with any technology, there will always be those who can think up ways to misuse it too.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

With GM, it's 5 seconds of information prior to the impact.

jackal2001

These black boxes were made public a couple years ago. They were introduced in corvettes, which let to a lot of people getting rid of their vette. It is funny how it will log everything in the event of a crash but when a problem occurs and the car (tl) needs survice, the computer won't retain the codes when the car is turned off. read a report of someone getting a indicator light on the dash and had to drive to the dealer, leave the car running in order for them to get the code out. :sqntfawk:

Tripp11

IMO, I could care less if there is a "black box" in my TL which records my last few minutes of driving characteristics because I don't feel that I drive wrecklessly. However, the first time some as* fuc* is driving his "sports car" erratically and speeding and plows into my car, I hope there is a way to pull that info off and use it against the idiot.

I know a lot of people don't agree, but I could care less if big brother is watching as long as it makes me safer at the end of the day.

neuronbob

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure of all the details.

wstevens

One of the things that I do at my job is accident reconstruction. I concentrate mostly on trains and planes, which both have black boxes. The black box information is essential to reconstructing an vehicular accident with any degree of certainty.

Cars, which by and large do not have black boxes, require that you rely on skid marks at the scene (if there are any), the extent and angles of crush damage, and on witness statements to get an idea of how fast the the car was going and what actions the driver took immediately prior to the incident. Black boxes in cars would take a lot fo the gueswork out of motor vehicle accident reconstruction and would lead to more accurate fault rulings in court. So, I'm all for them. If I ever was in an accident that was not my fault, the black box would certainly be my friend.

Mylriahd

Another view: Even if the accident IS your fault, it could work for you. For example, you are in an accident (your fault), and the person you hit is making things far worse than they were. (Driving wrecklessly, speeding, weaving in an out of lanes, blah blah blah) when alls you did was get unlucky rubber necking. The box would at least prove that the other guy is full of crap and possibly cancel some of your assumed fault. (no speeding ticket on top of everything else, for example).

On the other hand: If you really are driving like a dick, than I'm glad you have the box and you deserve what you get when you slam into me.

Seminole

If properly preserved and authenticated, the data from the "black box" is admissible in court.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't record all that. If I remember correctly, it stores speed, throttle position, braking action taken if any, impact g-force, and airbag deployment information -- all of 5 seconds prior to the moment of impact.