Do u guys agreed that TL can take on all the 3 Series Bimmer sedan?

320i, 323i, 328i, as well as 330

 

You'd have to define "take on."

Because the 3 series is a compact sedan and the TL is a midsized sedan, and equally equipped, the 3-series is about 10k more, they're practically uncomparable.

For some reason, people (say, um, Car and Driver) feel compelled to compare the two vehicles. Don't quite understand why.

If anything the TL compares to the 5-series (due to size/EPA class), but even less so from a price perspective.

So, what it boils down to is that the TL doesn't truly compete with any Bimmer. And visa versa.

Jon

 

You forgot M3.

 

The M3's in a class by itself

 

i agree with jon. TL = 5 series in terms of power, features but TL = 3 series in terms of price

 

in terms of perfomance wise of the TL vs the Bimmer 3 series sedan (exclude the M3 of course )

 

Can't compare TL to 530 in terms of performance.

TL6MT - 270HP/238 Torque/3472 lb
530i - 225HP/214 Torque/3472 lb
330i - 225HP/214 Torque/3285 lb

TL power/weight ratio is closer to 330i than 530i.

Can't break the laws of physics. The 530i is closer in size to the TL but will be left at the starting line.

 

Not exactly. In US fully loaded 330 ZHP is around $45K (MSRP). Base MSRP for M3 is $46,500. Very close. Anyway ZHP will probably beat TL fair and square.

 

Yup, don't understand the comparison at all. I'd sooner compare the Infiniti M45 to the 5 series.

 

LOL, yeah, that's "base MSRP" Try walking into any dealership and telling the salespeople you want a M3 for under $50g! Good luck!

 

Silly question. I own one of each. A 330i and a new TL. The 330i is small, quick, knife edge reactions, on rails.

The TL is bigger than a 530 is luxurious, great sound, comfort, room. The TL is probaby faster, flat out but for any use but flat out straight line, the 330i is quicker and feels even quicker.

The 330i will barely do for a business car. The TL is great. The 30i is a gas on the track. Drive the TL to the track, it's more comfortable. However, the TL is a better sport sedan than anything else. At least its handling is predictable, unlike the G35.

But, don't kid yourself that any of these cars is like a 330i. They're not.

 

Excuse me, what is 330 ZHP? .... Thanks.


You will get tons of answers if you try to ask ppl here if TL vs ....

Sometimes, I believe we're not really (physcially or theoretically) comparing TL with BMW 3 or 5.

I think, if you shop around other vehicles prior to having 04TL, your 04TL would stand comparison with those cars. I test-drove 330i, 330xi, 530i, E320, EX330, A4 3.0, A6 3.0, A6 2.7T, 9-3 2.0T, 9-5 3.0t, X-type 3.0, S-type 3.0, G35, CTS, etc... Why cannot I compare them with 04TL?

Everyone has a ruler in mind, and uses it to compare all the cars you're going to buy... Ppl have their own standard of "comparison"...

Ppl weight different facotrs (price, features, HP, Torque, reputation, maintenance, services, etc...) to form the standard. You don't need to have the same standard as other ppl's.

 

I sat in an M3 (and a 530i) the other day. I was so not impressed. Granted, while its engine and handling performance may "wow" most people, the interior left a lot to be desired (esp after seeing the TL's interior).

Of course, this is purely MY opinion, and I know there are people who will argue with me. We didn't take it for a spin or anything so I'm not commenting on its performance, only its "feel" on the inside.

 

To answer your question... I have raced a 330ci and blew his doors off. and yes he was trying!!!

An M3 no way....

 

Guys, what's this with comparing a 3-series car to our TL's? Why not compare the TL to the C-class Mercedes then? It's just plain stupid. You can only compare apples-to-apples. In the case of cars, that STARTS with size and then all else is negotiable (engine, trany, etc). With these obvious points layed out, the ONLY BMW to compare with is the 5-series. Now, the 530i is obviously underpowered and can't catch our TL's. Now, it SHOULD as they are both V6 platforms but Acura has done such a fine job by the engine that we have a great car for $20K less than the new 530i.

 

I shopped a 3 series before I purchased a 99TL, it was too small then and way too expensive for what it gave me, for the way I use a motorcar. The gap only widened with the 04, making it a real apples to oranges comparison - your driving needs will polarize you to one or the other.
The real comparison is with the 5 series. I was amazed how close the 04TL and 03 5 series are in feel and qualityl (the BMW dealer was not interested in giving me a test drive in the 04 when I told him I was cross shopping the 04TL).
I'd probably get comfortable with the exterior of the 04 5 series, but the new interior design is too trendy for my tastes. In the end I felt the TL delivered 90% of the package for 50% of the cost. Add to the fact the BMWs have very poor resale in my area and there was no contest. The Acura dealer gave me 50% of the original cost of my 99TL in trade for my 04TL and every time I think about driving it I begin to smile...it's that pleasing.

 

did he? i bleeive he said sedans....

 

That's why they call the new TL "Bimmer Buster" !

 

ndabunka, the 530i is not a V6.

If we start comparing the TL with the 330i, we might as well take another step in some ways and compare the TL with an S2000.

These are different cars with different strengths, so I agree with partagas...but I also understand and agree with rets points.

 

Agreed. The 330i is a very good car though, a better handler at high speeds in my view.

 

Rets

ZHP is the Performance Package for the 330i. Among other cosmetic "upgrades", the engine's HP is bumped up by 10hp to 235 hp and torque up by 8 lbs/ft to 222 lbs/ft. The rear axle was also shortened, gearing revised and suspension stiffened over the standard Sport Suspension. This package makes the current 330i very similar to the old E36 M3 sedan.

I've had my ZHP for about a month, and I agree with Peters...the Bimmer handles better at higher speeds, but more so in the corners and twisties due to the near 50/50 balance and RWD dynamics. The Bimmer feels as fast in a straight line as the 6MT TL I tested earlier (Car & Driver tested the ZHP and came away with a 5.6 sec 0-60). The TL has a nicer interior, more space and comfort with high-tech toys and a better stock stereo.

If you want to compare the two, it really comes down to what you value more...superb RWD driving dynamics with luxury (Bimmer), or a good blend of performance, comfort, features and lower price etc but at the expense of some degree of driving feel and handling (04TL).

 

You are correct. The 530i is a 3.0l inline six. How does that make ANY difference? I do agree that comparing this car to ANY 3-series is a mistake. They don't weigh the same, they don't have the same HP motors, they are NOT the same size, etc.

 

V6 vs straight six.....smoothness, although most modern v6 engines are smooth enough...but the big difference is sound. I fondly remember the sound of the Jaguars, Austin-Healys (essentially a truck engine but what a sound), Toyota Supra,....let's see....oh, the Pontiac OHC Tempest...and many BMWs...etc., all straigh sixes and the best sounding engines.

 

Comparing the TL and 330i makes sense since both are sedans. The 330i is definitely more sporty with it's RWD and better balance and suspension. But make no mistake, niether are sports cars or close to being a sports car. Drive a Z4 or S2000 back to back to either sedan, and the difference is immense. Much more so than the difference between the two sedans.

 

Just because they are "both sedans" does NOT justify the comparison. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME SIZE. If we all used that erronious logic, then I guess we can start comparing our TL's to The 740iL (or the Benz S-class) since "They are both sedans", right? NO, wrong! The correct comparison is a like sized sedan. The 3-series simply does not fit that qualification. However, the 5-series does. Why is it SO hard for some of you to UNDERSTAND this basic premise?

 

Well, anything can be compared. What makes a good comparison is defining the parameters that the objects to be compared must share. You speak of size, but that is only parameter. Most people shop cars based on price, and in that case the TL vs. 330i is a valid and legitimate comparison.

 

In Toronto, a well equipped 330i is about $12,000 (Cdn) more without NAVI. I made the comparison, but on price, the TL has the advantage. On performance, particularly at highway speeds, the edge goes to BMW in my book. I think it is, in a lot of ways, a different car. RWD, smaller, less HP, (although it really doesn't feel like it). I do think the 5 series is more of a comparison when you consider interior size etc.

 

OK, I'll bite. Price you say? Then let's see...The Toyota Avalon is about $35K. Should I compare it to the TL. I doubt it. My single point is that while the 330's are neat fun LITTLE cars, the reality (as you stated) is that they are simply too small to be used effectively as a mode of transportation for business use. The truth to the matter is that the 330 is at heart a coupe that has been forced into duty as a 4-door. The Mercedes C-class, the Audi S4, the Volve S60, The Saab 93 (?) might all compare with it but the TL is a larger car and therefore does not DESERVE to be thrown into the same catagory as a smaller car. Smaller cars can accelerate quicker, handle better (because they are lighter), etc. I will continue to state that comparing a 3-series Beemer to a TL is like comparing apples to oranges. I don't care what their price tags are...

 

OK, maybe we need to take a poll to see what the real world is really doing. Do people really cross shop the BMW 3 series against the TL? I believe yes. I know I did.

 

I did -- for a very short time. The size, price (with options) and just about everythng else made it obvious fairly quickly that it is a poor comparison.

 

I am 6'4" too big for the little bimmer. Have you ever seen a bigger person in one of those cars? They fill up the whole interior!

 

OMG ndabunka!

SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY!

Comparing two different cars is just that, they are two DIFFERENT cars. However, b/c they are not going to be the SAME the comparisons are comparable.

NOBODY is busting out their ruler to see if these cars are exactly the same. SIMILAR YES...hence the comparison you anal geek!

Damn, do you really spend your waking hours arguing this? Ridiculous! 3-Series is a good enough comparo to the TL, not just b/c it's a sedan but even major mags give this comparo.

Nough said!

PS you are not going to have apples to apples comparisons when you are comparing two different cars manufactured by two different companies. It cracks me up when I hear so many of you use this term. It doesn't apply!