BEWARE!! Acura Selling Crashed Cars...not reporting in Car Fax
01-09-2009, 03:15 PM
#81
if only the TL had a vcr built in~
but would you keep watching one portion of its life over and over....
A car that doesnt steer correct has an alignement or suspension problem
Acura has a few fixes depending on the year
Going to larger rims before fixing the problem just gives them a way to blame you.
Have a private shop that works on acuras-does suspension work, look it over and find whats really wrong
You could have a car with a bent frame! Body shops can take measurements and use lasers to see if the car was/is bent...most likely cause of on going steering issues
Whats the readout after alignment- whats the numbers say
Has the recall for ps steering hose been done yet? wont cause what you describe but needs to be done
but would you keep watching one portion of its life over and over....
A car that doesnt steer correct has an alignement or suspension problem
Acura has a few fixes depending on the year
Going to larger rims before fixing the problem just gives them a way to blame you.
Have a private shop that works on acuras-does suspension work, look it over and find whats really wrong
You could have a car with a bent frame! Body shops can take measurements and use lasers to see if the car was/is bent...most likely cause of on going steering issues
Whats the readout after alignment- whats the numbers say
Has the recall for ps steering hose been done yet? wont cause what you describe but needs to be done
01-11-2009, 06:29 AM
#83
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I find it very had to believe that the dealer was not aware that the car was in a previous accident. It is very easy to tell that a car had been repainted. Anyone buying a used car should have their own paint thickness gauge and check the car themselves.
http://www.handsontools.com/Pro%20Mo...te=google_base
http://www.handsontools.com/Pro%20Mo...te=google_base
01-12-2009, 06:55 AM
#85
Senior Moderator
That's a good analogy.
01-12-2009, 06:05 PM
#86
I actually went today...and Bob the new manager was not there. They stated that I needed to speak with him...in the mean time I told them "how could they sell me a car that didn't have any recalls done...what kind of shiz is that??? The person I spoke to said that they are not suppose to do that and it seems that the car was not certified even though they claimed they did it.
My car was getting serviced today for leather seats and the SOP mic...I didn't want to bitch until they repaired everything correctly...so I am going tomorrow to speak with Bob. I am ready to give some hell.
I have a 2009 MDX SH-AWD which is pretty sweet even though it sucks with gas.
My car was getting serviced today for leather seats and the SOP mic...I didn't want to bitch until they repaired everything correctly...so I am going tomorrow to speak with Bob. I am ready to give some hell.
I have a 2009 MDX SH-AWD which is pretty sweet even though it sucks with gas.
01-15-2009, 09:01 AM
#90
The manager "BOB" has not been there. I am calling to try to set up an appointment. I spoke to the guy who sold me the car "John K." (nice guy) who printed out another but more recent Car Fax report which still doesn't show any collision history.
From speaking with John K. it doesn't seem like they won't be able to do much for me at Acura....and its not looking good. The odds of them giving me a trade in are slim, money...hahah...never. Maybe Parts or something...Either way it doesn't change the fact that I have a car that has been hit before.
There is a snow storm right now in my area so I will have to hold off until Saturday. Guys I am not giving up...I will get lawyers and do what I can...but this really sucks.
01-15-2009, 09:04 AM
#91
Was looking for your car and didn't see it. I stayed at the service area for a while and then went to look at the 2009 TL. I was starting convo with everyone I saw there to see if there were any Acuraziner's there...people couldn't beleive it.
01-15-2009, 02:48 PM
#92
Registered User
i was there for about 10 minutes around 9am. spoke to Greg(service rep) for a few seconds, he got the tech for me, took my car for a drive, then left
01-15-2009, 04:50 PM
#93
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The manager "BOB" has not been there. I am calling to try to set up an appointment. I spoke to the guy who sold me the car "John K." (nice guy) who printed out another but more recent Car Fax report which still doesn't show any collision history.
From speaking with John K. it doesn't seem like they won't be able to do much for me at Acura....and its not looking good. The odds of them giving me a trade in are slim, money...hahah...never. Maybe Parts or something...Either way it doesn't change the fact that I have a car that has been hit before.
There is a snow storm right now in my area so I will have to hold off until Saturday. Guys I am not giving up...I will get lawyers and do what I can...but this really sucks.
From speaking with John K. it doesn't seem like they won't be able to do much for me at Acura....and its not looking good. The odds of them giving me a trade in are slim, money...hahah...never. Maybe Parts or something...Either way it doesn't change the fact that I have a car that has been hit before.
There is a snow storm right now in my area so I will have to hold off until Saturday. Guys I am not giving up...I will get lawyers and do what I can...but this really sucks.
01-16-2009, 11:00 AM
#94
Greg is the man!!! He helped me out alot and replaced a few things they normally don't replace. He knows me...I got the SSM 2005 Acura....I got there a bit later probably 10:30am or 11am...I was in a MDX loaner
01-16-2009, 11:01 AM
#95
I did and they told me to try and resolve it at the dealership first and then call them with the end result.
01-16-2009, 11:01 AM
#96
01-16-2009, 12:57 PM
#97
Your situation is tough, but this is something you should expect from buying used cars, especially those that were on lease. If you don't want to deal with this kind of crap just buy your car new.
A dealership doesn't have to prove they know/knew if the car was in an accident or not. For all they know, you caused the accident and want them to pay for it, and are using a reason to get it fixed. Think about the dealership's perspective - you come back 6months later and complain to them about a previous accident. They're going to think its BS or buyer's remorse.
You can try and take it up with the BBB, but you're going to have to go in with absolute proof (receipts from the previous leased owner from the bodyshop they used to have the car repaired, testimony from mechanics who worked on it etc) to get the BBB to listen, let alone a court of law. Your situation sucks but you're going to have to climb mountains and valleys to get the result you're looking for. If you have to, contact the previous owner and get them to tell the truth about the history of the car.
* I wouldn't go as far and say that Acura sells crashed cars, it's this dealership Open Road acura. Maybe you can change your title in this post. I can potentially see a google spyder picking up the title to your post, and bam, Acura credibility goes down! Let's not smear the Acura name as it is clearly not Acura who is at fault.
A dealership doesn't have to prove they know/knew if the car was in an accident or not. For all they know, you caused the accident and want them to pay for it, and are using a reason to get it fixed. Think about the dealership's perspective - you come back 6months later and complain to them about a previous accident. They're going to think its BS or buyer's remorse.
You can try and take it up with the BBB, but you're going to have to go in with absolute proof (receipts from the previous leased owner from the bodyshop they used to have the car repaired, testimony from mechanics who worked on it etc) to get the BBB to listen, let alone a court of law. Your situation sucks but you're going to have to climb mountains and valleys to get the result you're looking for. If you have to, contact the previous owner and get them to tell the truth about the history of the car.
* I wouldn't go as far and say that Acura sells crashed cars, it's this dealership Open Road acura. Maybe you can change your title in this post. I can potentially see a google spyder picking up the title to your post, and bam, Acura credibility goes down! Let's not smear the Acura name as it is clearly not Acura who is at fault.
02-17-2009, 12:16 PM
#98
Well they didn't do crap for me. I tried talking to different people there and either led to an arguement or didn't accomplish nothing. Yes I know I should of payed more attention...but now I know...everyone should use my lesson's learned and double check what you buy.
02-17-2009, 12:43 PM
#99
This about it folks.....CARFAX.
What does this mean? Basically...nothing.
Who is being incented (payed...rewarded in some way) to report repairs to CarFax? Then why would they bother to take the time. They dont.
Why would the insurance company do it? To lessen the value of the car of their insured so they then can pay them lost value on said vehicle? Why would a shop do it? To waste time? Time = money, right? Why would a dealer do it? (because they often get the car back and use this as a marketing technique)
So bottom line is....think about it and the whole concept. Its a marketing gimmick and nothing more. From what I can see....NOBODY IS INCENTED TO REPORT TO CARFAX....so why would they bother? The only party that uses it is car sales people.....which is why they tend to be about the only things you see on there....is dealer reports and public information.
What does this mean? Basically...nothing.
Who is being incented (payed...rewarded in some way) to report repairs to CarFax? Then why would they bother to take the time. They dont.
Why would the insurance company do it? To lessen the value of the car of their insured so they then can pay them lost value on said vehicle? Why would a shop do it? To waste time? Time = money, right? Why would a dealer do it? (because they often get the car back and use this as a marketing technique)
So bottom line is....think about it and the whole concept. Its a marketing gimmick and nothing more. From what I can see....NOBODY IS INCENTED TO REPORT TO CARFAX....so why would they bother? The only party that uses it is car sales people.....which is why they tend to be about the only things you see on there....is dealer reports and public information.
02-17-2009, 12:47 PM
#100
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Oh PUH-lease.
Talk about "jumping to conclusions".
The person with the lease gets in a significant accident. Has repair work done. Later (who knows how long) retruns the car. The repairing body shop and/or the owner may or may not have reported said repairs to CarFax.
(CarFax for christ's sake? They are a f'kg for profit company - using their service to report damage isn't a *law* or anything. Would *you* report major damage to CarFax?).
A general once-over on return inspection WON'T notice the *repaired* damage, only *un-repaired damage.
The "Certified" process/checklist is worth the paper it's written on and maybe given slightly more attention than the "24-point inspection" you get free with every oil change. "Certified Pre-Owned" = greatest marketing scam in the used car business for years.
IOW - why must you assume that the seller had any idea or even *wanted* to know?
Let the buyer beware.
Did you ask for a disclosure statement - said car no known accident or repair valued above $xxx ? Bet not. If you had and they had said, "it's good" when if fact they knew of such damage, *then* you'd have something to complain about.
Talk about "jumping to conclusions".
The person with the lease gets in a significant accident. Has repair work done. Later (who knows how long) retruns the car. The repairing body shop and/or the owner may or may not have reported said repairs to CarFax.
(CarFax for christ's sake? They are a f'kg for profit company - using their service to report damage isn't a *law* or anything. Would *you* report major damage to CarFax?).
A general once-over on return inspection WON'T notice the *repaired* damage, only *un-repaired damage.
The "Certified" process/checklist is worth the paper it's written on and maybe given slightly more attention than the "24-point inspection" you get free with every oil change. "Certified Pre-Owned" = greatest marketing scam in the used car business for years.
IOW - why must you assume that the seller had any idea or even *wanted* to know?
Let the buyer beware.
Did you ask for a disclosure statement - said car no known accident or repair valued above $xxx ? Bet not. If you had and they had said, "it's good" when if fact they knew of such damage, *then* you'd have something to complain about.
02-17-2009, 03:00 PM
#102
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damn bro sorry to hear about ur situation....thats why CARFAX=BULLSHIT....when i was looking for a car all my friends were like use or get a carfax on the spot becuz its required..but like mentioned in here if they dont report it what good does it do u....
02-17-2009, 03:20 PM
#103
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Pre-owned Certified, I go by the information provided to me on acura's site. http://www.acura.com/content/PreOwned/CPO_150pt.pdf. It's a 150 point inspection before resale which includes the paint. Yes its used as tool to sell car's but I am sure I can find a way to make this work to my advantage.
Your right I should not assume that they knew it was damaged or repaired?...I just think the chances are very higher that they know it was repaired...just as high as the chances of them selling the car without telling anyone about the damages. Who paid the price? I did. I don't want anyone as a consumer to pay the price. Those dealers don't always care about consumers only money. Only a few may exist.
Your right I should not assume that they knew it was damaged or repaired?...I just think the chances are very higher that they know it was repaired...just as high as the chances of them selling the car without telling anyone about the damages. Who paid the price? I did. I don't want anyone as a consumer to pay the price. Those dealers don't always care about consumers only money. Only a few may exist.
i agree with you and although i understand the other side of the story that another poster stated, here's why.
just yesterday i bought a cpo tl. i traded in my audi for it. 1st thing they come back to tell me BEFORE carfax or anything else is: your car has been repainted.
now, my car has a nice paint job and even harded to tell that it was repainted even with a mechanics eye. 99.9% would miss it with a visual inspection.
how did they know?? -- they scanned it with that little laser light thing that tests paint quality, etc.
no need for me to elaborate more. i mean, you mean to tell me they scan trade ins but not their own freaking cpo stock traded back in to the company?!
i think not.
unfortunately you are going off of word of mouth here "no, the car has never been in an accident." but i think you may have something on your hands. get a lawyer and go to corporate if you really want to pursue it.
i can tell that you are not boo boo the fool. you have a right to be mad.
and as a producer, i'll say this; nothing is worse than contacting your local "consumer investigation team" of your local news network.
luxury car dealer + bad press = quick resolution.
so, your disclosure statement is your cpo paper. don't go in thinking that it's worthless. use it to your advantage.
Last edited by CrouchingTiger; 02-17-2009 at 03:25 PM.
02-17-2009, 05:51 PM
#104
always run a car that you are about to buy past your insurance agent for a quote.....they will have access to any repairs reported by any insurance company....
carfax is a joke and if your dealer is honest, they will make it right........
carfax is a joke and if your dealer is honest, they will make it right........
02-17-2009, 07:51 PM
#105
Your definitely not going to get any money back, thats just not going to happen in today's world from any corporation. But in the least I would want them to replace and repaint any body parts that have bondo. Thats what I would focus my attention on but thats just me.
You should sit down and ask your self:
What is a realistic resolution that you expect to get from them?
and fight for that...
You have to go in there knowing exactly what is acceptable to make you happy and stick to it, one of the biggest mistakes most people make with problem resolution involving a large company is that they dont really even know what they expect to get and in the end wind up taking what ever the company gives them.
You should sit down and ask your self:
What is a realistic resolution that you expect to get from them?
and fight for that...
You have to go in there knowing exactly what is acceptable to make you happy and stick to it, one of the biggest mistakes most people make with problem resolution involving a large company is that they dont really even know what they expect to get and in the end wind up taking what ever the company gives them.
02-17-2009, 07:58 PM
#106
Trust me they already know exactly what can be done for you and what cant be done. But they are a for profit business so you cant expect them to tell you, you just gotta be ready to take it the long haul.
Oh and by the way, NEVER threaten a lawsuit unless you actually intend to file one. Everyone automatically says that theyre going to sue and it gets you nowhere. You either cause any negotiation or conversation to end because theyre lawyers dont want them talking to you if your going to sue, besides Acura has how many lawyers??? and you can hire how many?? Lawsuit threats are definitely the choice of most angry consumers, but in the end it gets you no where really (if its just a threat)...
Oh and by the way, NEVER threaten a lawsuit unless you actually intend to file one. Everyone automatically says that theyre going to sue and it gets you nowhere. You either cause any negotiation or conversation to end because theyre lawyers dont want them talking to you if your going to sue, besides Acura has how many lawyers??? and you can hire how many?? Lawsuit threats are definitely the choice of most angry consumers, but in the end it gets you no where really (if its just a threat)...
02-17-2009, 09:09 PM
#107
I know that on a Lexus vehicle, a certified pre-owned car can actually have one body panel replaced (missing the all important factory vin# sticker) and still be considered CPO. Not sure what the Acura policy is?
Also, the dealer has a paint thickness meter that can quickly tell if any paint has been done by a 3rd party. The factory has a paint thickness tolerance set in the paint booth that a 3rd party body shop has no way of matching all around your car during repair. I guess the dealer would first have to suspect that any paint has been added. You might check to see if this is part of the certified xxxx point inspection process. If so, you would have a strong case for returning the vehicle.
(playing devils advocate)
To counter this argument, the dealer may also accuse you of causing this damage, if they have documentation that shows that the paint/bodywork was in factory condition?
Anyone in the auto industry with experience should be able to quickly tell if paint has been added and bodywork replaced, especially since the vin# stickers will not be present on each replaced body panel.
I would suggest going to the dealer 1st and give them the opportunity to make it right for you. Based on their response, I would then escalate to corporate Honda with a request of the regional factory rep to visit you at the dealer in question, then a lawyer if necessary.
It is the dealers responsibility to sell you you what they advertise, nothing more nothing less. You cannot be held responsible for them not thoroughly checking the vehicle before selling it to you. That is their expertise, not yours.
Also, the dealer has a paint thickness meter that can quickly tell if any paint has been done by a 3rd party. The factory has a paint thickness tolerance set in the paint booth that a 3rd party body shop has no way of matching all around your car during repair. I guess the dealer would first have to suspect that any paint has been added. You might check to see if this is part of the certified xxxx point inspection process. If so, you would have a strong case for returning the vehicle.
(playing devils advocate)
To counter this argument, the dealer may also accuse you of causing this damage, if they have documentation that shows that the paint/bodywork was in factory condition?
Anyone in the auto industry with experience should be able to quickly tell if paint has been added and bodywork replaced, especially since the vin# stickers will not be present on each replaced body panel.
I would suggest going to the dealer 1st and give them the opportunity to make it right for you. Based on their response, I would then escalate to corporate Honda with a request of the regional factory rep to visit you at the dealer in question, then a lawyer if necessary.
It is the dealers responsibility to sell you you what they advertise, nothing more nothing less. You cannot be held responsible for them not thoroughly checking the vehicle before selling it to you. That is their expertise, not yours.
02-18-2009, 12:22 AM
#108
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
I hope everything works out OK but I'll be surprised. Bottom line is the only one really concerned about you in the transaction is you. Bottom line, check out everything before signing to purchase a used car. Why would you trust someone on commission to look out for your interest?
Part of the reason you get to save money is because you are taking a risk. The seller will follow the letter of the written agreement but little else. If you don't know anything, find someone that does. It's just life. The alternative to the risk is buying a less expensive something new.
Part of the reason you get to save money is because you are taking a risk. The seller will follow the letter of the written agreement but little else. If you don't know anything, find someone that does. It's just life. The alternative to the risk is buying a less expensive something new.
02-18-2009, 03:55 AM
#109
oh ACURA does not sell damaged cars, dealers with questionable ethics do......
02-20-2009, 07:57 PM
#111
when my dealer sold me my cls it had a clean car fax report and they stated it was accident free. ran it past my insurance company after I bought it and they gave me the print out of 2 accidents
April 23, 2003 (barely 3 weeks old) front bumper skin replaced total cost $535
June 15th 2005 (just before I bought it) rear bumper replaced total cost $645
took the car back to them and they gave me a check for first 3 car payments or $987.xx......
they apologized up and down for that and the same company still services my car at their acura dealership......
April 23, 2003 (barely 3 weeks old) front bumper skin replaced total cost $535
June 15th 2005 (just before I bought it) rear bumper replaced total cost $645
took the car back to them and they gave me a check for first 3 car payments or $987.xx......
they apologized up and down for that and the same company still services my car at their acura dealership......
02-21-2009, 06:51 PM
#112
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OF COURSE THEY KNEW! When I take a car in on trade at my job the first thing that we do is run a paint meter over the entire car. The reason we do this is because we will immediately know whether the car was painted or not. This in turn, whether it's on the car fax or not, will give us an edge Meaning... we will give the customer less money for their car when it is traded in. And if it's on the car fax, well then forget it at that point.
I understand that you are extremely mad that they deceived you. I'm going to check what the law is in these circumstances. Sometimes in some cases they will have to disclose that the car was damaged. But most of the time it's only if the car is new. For example in NYS, the dealer has to disclose that a new car was damaged if the damage exceeds $2,000.
I understand that you are extremely mad that they deceived you. I'm going to check what the law is in these circumstances. Sometimes in some cases they will have to disclose that the car was damaged. But most of the time it's only if the car is new. For example in NYS, the dealer has to disclose that a new car was damaged if the damage exceeds $2,000.
02-21-2009, 07:51 PM
#113
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And by the way I would disagree with the "never sue statement." My dealership has been sued for numerous things (most of which were honestly not our fault) in the past and every time they laid down. This is obvious..... because litigation fees can easily go upwards in the tens of thousands. It would be much cheaper for them to settle the matter out of court. Giving you an extended warrantee for free would cost them much less.
02-23-2009, 07:07 AM
#115
i agree with you and although i understand the other side of the story that another poster stated, here's why.
just yesterday i bought a cpo tl. i traded in my audi for it. 1st thing they come back to tell me BEFORE carfax or anything else is: your car has been repainted.
now, my car has a nice paint job and even harded to tell that it was repainted even with a mechanics eye. 99.9% would miss it with a visual inspection.
how did they know?? -- they scanned it with that little laser light thing that tests paint quality, etc.
no need for me to elaborate more. i mean, you mean to tell me they scan trade ins but not their own freaking cpo stock traded back in to the company?!
i think not.
unfortunately you are going off of word of mouth here "no, the car has never been in an accident." but i think you may have something on your hands. get a lawyer and go to corporate if you really want to pursue it.
i can tell that you are not boo boo the fool. you have a right to be mad.
and as a producer, i'll say this; nothing is worse than contacting your local "consumer investigation team" of your local news network.
luxury car dealer + bad press = quick resolution.
so, your disclosure statement is your cpo paper. don't go in thinking that it's worthless. use it to your advantage.
just yesterday i bought a cpo tl. i traded in my audi for it. 1st thing they come back to tell me BEFORE carfax or anything else is: your car has been repainted.
now, my car has a nice paint job and even harded to tell that it was repainted even with a mechanics eye. 99.9% would miss it with a visual inspection.
how did they know?? -- they scanned it with that little laser light thing that tests paint quality, etc.
no need for me to elaborate more. i mean, you mean to tell me they scan trade ins but not their own freaking cpo stock traded back in to the company?!
i think not.
unfortunately you are going off of word of mouth here "no, the car has never been in an accident." but i think you may have something on your hands. get a lawyer and go to corporate if you really want to pursue it.
i can tell that you are not boo boo the fool. you have a right to be mad.
and as a producer, i'll say this; nothing is worse than contacting your local "consumer investigation team" of your local news network.
luxury car dealer + bad press = quick resolution.
so, your disclosure statement is your cpo paper. don't go in thinking that it's worthless. use it to your advantage.
07-17-2009, 03:52 PM
#118
I got shafted...nothing I could do...spoke to the upper managment and they said I could file a suit if I'd like...this sucks. I am trying to see if the VIN and the insurance company could come up with reports before I bought the car....if so then I could have a case.
07-17-2009, 04:03 PM
#120
The first issue I see with your statement is.....the carfax showed it wasnt in an accident (or something similar). As you have learned the hard way...a carfax CANNOT do that. They can only report to you "to the best of their knowledge". If it wasnt an insurance paid job...its not likely on carfax...and even then...often not. Usually if there was an insurance settlement on it of some sort...it WILL show up...but not guaranteed by any means.
A carfax is reference material at best...but you must not count on that 100% by any means. Carfax has done a lot of national marketing to make people think different though.
A carfax is reference material at best...but you must not count on that 100% by any means. Carfax has done a lot of national marketing to make people think different though.