Best oil for '07 TL Type S
#82
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I will add a caveat.. I haven't checked the filters since the merger buyout of champ labs and fram, and that Honda filter posted definitely looks different than the one I took apart years ago which makes me wonder if the same farm is making the Honda filters.
#83
Team Owner
This picture shows a used filter which will have erratically spaced media because it has been used. There has been gallons of oil that has flowed through that filter that soften and deform the media but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work. With the flow pattern of an oil filter, with the oil coming up the sides and pushed inwards through the media by means of oil pressure, it doesn't really matter what spacing you see when the filter is dry and in your hands because it'll likely be different when under pressure.
Just because it was a pain to take apart does not make it a better filter. I can probably make you one that's damn near impossible to disassemble and would be utter crap at filtration but I understand the aspect of quality you're after.
Next on to the claims of the filter...which should be fun:
Thicker Shell - Why? According to this it's because these don't get punctured by road debris. Well...my OEM one doesn't either so this is a moot point and a waste of money.
Next on to the claims of the filter...which should be fun:
Thicker Shell - Why? According to this it's because these don't get punctured by road debris. Well...my OEM one doesn't either so this is a moot point and a waste of money.
Metal End Caps - Metal is one of the worst sealing materials ever conceived by man, why this is touted as a method for "positive sealing" is beyond me. Additionally, there aren't any engines out there that generate so much oil pressure that it would pass by the "normal" paper end caps without blowing something else up along the way.
Anti Drainback Valve - Again, this is present on the Honda filter. The fact that nitrile lasts longer means nothing if you're swapping these out every 5k miles. If your oil filter is full of oil when you change it then there's no reason to fork over extra money for silicone since the anti-drainback is working fine at the end of its service life. FWIW, Honda filters have silicone anyway.
Steel Backplate - For burst strength? Really? What kind of pressure are you planning on seeing that you need a steel backplate to prevent blowing your oil filter up? This is marketing and a good way to sell stuff, that's it. Not to mention that the gauge of steel is quite thin on these and you're more likely to blow the seal from the backplate to the shell than the backplate itself.
Filter Element - Ah the part we all came to read so I saved best for last. Let's begin with the superior filtration comment. How do you propose we get superior filtration while keeping flow restriction low? The only way to get more filtration is to have a finer screen which therefore increases flow restriction. That's the way a filter works and no amount of marketing lingo will change that. The fact that's it's synthetic vs paper is the only part that could possible make a difference and that's only to prevent the breakdown of the filter media and nothing else. I've seen a couple OF cut opens showing the filter totally breaking down but those were fairly long OCI's and were a fairly rare occurrence.
The part nobody ever mentions is the standard cellulose media's reaction to water and we all have some level of moisture in the oil..... The cellulose filters swell in the presence of water, increasing pore size and decreasing filtration. Not only that, it begins to degrade the second oil touches it. Most of the time you change it long before it degrades to a dangerous level. However, there's just something about the glass media not being affected by time and oil that I like.
Again, with higher flow comes less time with the bypass open and less unfiltered oil passing through the engine.
I will, however, leave you with this. Honda spent hundreds of millions in engine development costs over the years to develop their engines and engine oils to perform the way they want and to maintain their reputation as a reliable car brand, that's how they sell their cars. Of those tens of millions, they probably dropped a few million into the development of the appropriate oil filtration system. What makes you think that they got it wrong?
Another thing not always brought up is the overall quality of assembly, besides what the parts are made of. I've seen some with glue everywhere, even on the "clean" side of the filter. While it might not destroy the engine, I would choose the filter that does not look like it was assembled by a 5yr old with a gallon of Elmer's School Glue.
#84
Team Owner
Same here. As soon as I saw that picture I thought it looked much better than the last set of Honda filter pictures. Maybe they have improved.
#85
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
New filters are by Fram (Honeywell). I'm guessing with the buyout, the new conglomerate won out over Filtech's (old filter) bid.
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
Last edited by Majofo; 03-18-2014 at 08:51 PM.
#86
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I take back my original statement for the time being, the Honda FilTech filters are better than a sock in a soda can. The newer filters, no.
![Chuckle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/chuckle.gif)
Last edited by Majofo; 03-18-2014 at 08:51 PM.
#87
Team Owner
#88
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I'm just being crass..
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
#89
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Here's to confirm they are the same as Fram. Apparently the old Filtech's might still be in supply. Probably old stock.
#90
Team Owner
It looks like we're back to the sock in a soda can.
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#91
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Sounds like some sophisticated masturbation contraption justn uses..
![Chuckle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/chuckle.gif)
#92
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
We should tell him an old Honda filter will work.. already lubed.
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
#93
Team Owner
After looking at the Honda filter I think you could gut it for superior flow without hurting filtration. Cut it, remove the media and failure prone cardboard endcaps, glue the shell back together. You now have the same filtration with better flow and reliability.
Mods can put this DIY in the Garage if you like.
Mods can put this DIY in the Garage if you like.
#94
Team Owner
The following 2 users liked this post by I hate cars:
Majofo (03-18-2014),
Undying Dreams (03-19-2014)
#95
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#97
Suzuka Master
The best oil is clearly..................oooops nevermind I only know the best oil for an 06
#98
Ex-OEM King
You make all valid points but again, what is it worth in the end? I don't doubt the fact that some of the more expensive or non-OEM products are probably better built and have nicer features but what's it worth in the end?
Also, in all my years of driving and with numerous other cars from numerous manufacturers and friends with various other cars and an even broader range of manufacturers, I've never ever blown up an oil filter and I have not known anyone to do so either. I've done cold starts (not started for 8 hours) at -35F all the way up to warm starts at 101F and never destroyed or blew up an oil filter. So what are you guys doing that you are destroying oil filters?
Also, to your comment about engineering time, you wouldn't believe the amount of time spent on the most minor of components. I bet several months were spent on the specifications of an oil filter with a group of people who spent that time doing development work, testing, more testing, validation testing, etc...
Also, the ADBV is designed to prevent dry starts so as long as the filter is full, it's doing the right job. Agreed that silicone is better than rubber, it is for most applications, and it appears that Honda filters use silicone anyway. Being that silicone is a synthetic compound, I would bet that a lot of companies will go that route over time since the price of rubber is quite variable.
You are all free to spend whatever you want on your car but I've never had an issue with running ~5k OCI's on the OEM filter. If you're planning on going longer then sure but I just follow the recommended timings.
FWIW, BMW recommends a 15k (!!) mile OCI on their cars which is total BS. That's one thing the entire community disregards and does 7500-8k mile changes, but still using the OEM filter.
Also, in all my years of driving and with numerous other cars from numerous manufacturers and friends with various other cars and an even broader range of manufacturers, I've never ever blown up an oil filter and I have not known anyone to do so either. I've done cold starts (not started for 8 hours) at -35F all the way up to warm starts at 101F and never destroyed or blew up an oil filter. So what are you guys doing that you are destroying oil filters?
Also, to your comment about engineering time, you wouldn't believe the amount of time spent on the most minor of components. I bet several months were spent on the specifications of an oil filter with a group of people who spent that time doing development work, testing, more testing, validation testing, etc...
Also, the ADBV is designed to prevent dry starts so as long as the filter is full, it's doing the right job. Agreed that silicone is better than rubber, it is for most applications, and it appears that Honda filters use silicone anyway. Being that silicone is a synthetic compound, I would bet that a lot of companies will go that route over time since the price of rubber is quite variable.
You are all free to spend whatever you want on your car but I've never had an issue with running ~5k OCI's on the OEM filter. If you're planning on going longer then sure but I just follow the recommended timings.
FWIW, BMW recommends a 15k (!!) mile OCI on their cars which is total BS. That's one thing the entire community disregards and does 7500-8k mile changes, but still using the OEM filter.
#99
Team Owner
The BMW OCI isn't that crazy as long as they hold more oil. If it holds 8-10 quarts and uses a cartridge filter it's not that bad. If it holds 5 quarts, that's pushing it.
About the ADBV, it needs to do more than maintain a full filter. If a full filter were all we were after, the TL would probably not need one with its upright filter. There's a column of oil above the filter that needs to be maintained. I know when I pull my filter off a ton of oil comes out from above the filter. I would hate for the pump to have to fill that volume each time it's started before pressure arrives.
One of the reasons I went away from the Amsoil EAO filters was the oil pressure light took slightly longer to go out and when I changed the filter, it was full but hardly any oil came out from above. Their ADBV just wasn't doing it's job and it was evident in time to pressure and when the filter was changed even though it was always full.
You're probably right about engineering. My point was that the bean counters have a large influence and I'm sure the engineers have to compromise a lot.
About the ADBV, it needs to do more than maintain a full filter. If a full filter were all we were after, the TL would probably not need one with its upright filter. There's a column of oil above the filter that needs to be maintained. I know when I pull my filter off a ton of oil comes out from above the filter. I would hate for the pump to have to fill that volume each time it's started before pressure arrives.
One of the reasons I went away from the Amsoil EAO filters was the oil pressure light took slightly longer to go out and when I changed the filter, it was full but hardly any oil came out from above. Their ADBV just wasn't doing it's job and it was evident in time to pressure and when the filter was changed even though it was always full.
You're probably right about engineering. My point was that the bean counters have a large influence and I'm sure the engineers have to compromise a lot.
#100
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
He still believes Honda "engineers" the filter.
Almost everything engineered on a Honda is contracted out. That includes the small stuff that you refer to, like the oil filter. You honestly think Honda has a team of engineers behind the oil and filter..![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
It's contracted out. It meets a certain spec at a hardline price. Done.
A new guy says we can meet the minimum spec at a lower price.. Sure, Welcome to HoMoCo.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Almost everything engineered on a Honda is contracted out. That includes the small stuff that you refer to, like the oil filter. You honestly think Honda has a team of engineers behind the oil and filter..
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
It's contracted out. It meets a certain spec at a hardline price. Done.
A new guy says we can meet the minimum spec at a lower price.. Sure, Welcome to HoMoCo.
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
#101
Team Owner
He still believes Honda "engineers" the filter.
Almost everything engineered on a Honda is contracted out. That includes the small stuff that you refer to, like the oil filter. You honestly think Honda has a team of engineers behind the oil and filter..![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
It's contracted out. It meets a certain spec at a hardline price. Done.
A new guy says we can meet the minimum spec at a lower price.. Sure, Welcome to HoMoCo.![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Almost everything engineered on a Honda is contracted out. That includes the small stuff that you refer to, like the oil filter. You honestly think Honda has a team of engineers behind the oil and filter..
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
It's contracted out. It meets a certain spec at a hardline price. Done.
A new guy says we can meet the minimum spec at a lower price.. Sure, Welcome to HoMoCo.
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#102
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I wish Honda would refer to themselves as HoMoCo like Ford. I'd apply. Majofo and IHC, the new brewmasters behind the add packs. Sam's application is rejected, overqualified and wants to be paid millions. We work for free..
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
#103
Team Owner
I would supply Turbonut and NFN with free factory oil with my special add pack, sodium silicate, to keep their engines extra clean.
We could buy oil and filters from a major manufacturer and relabel them..... I can't believe no one has thought of this before.
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
The following users liked this post:
Majofo (03-19-2014)
#104
Senior Moderator
You make all valid points but again, what is it worth in the end? I don't doubt the fact that some of the more expensive or non-OEM products are probably better built and have nicer features but what's it worth in the end?
Also, in all my years of driving and with numerous other cars from numerous manufacturers and friends with various other cars and an even broader range of manufacturers, I've never ever blown up an oil filter and I have not known anyone to do so either. I've done cold starts (not started for 8 hours) at -35F all the way up to warm starts at 101F and never destroyed or blew up an oil filter. So what are you guys doing that you are destroying oil filters?
Also, to your comment about engineering time, you wouldn't believe the amount of time spent on the most minor of components. I bet several months were spent on the specifications of an oil filter with a group of people who spent that time doing development work, testing, more testing, validation testing, etc...
Also, the ADBV is designed to prevent dry starts so as long as the filter is full, it's doing the right job. Agreed that silicone is better than rubber, it is for most applications, and it appears that Honda filters use silicone anyway. Being that silicone is a synthetic compound, I would bet that a lot of companies will go that route over time since the price of rubber is quite variable.
You are all free to spend whatever you want on your car but I've never had an issue with running ~5k OCI's on the OEM filter. If you're planning on going longer then sure but I just follow the recommended timings.
FWIW, BMW recommends a 15k (!!) mile OCI on their cars which is total BS. That's one thing the entire community disregards and does 7500-8k mile changes, but still using the OEM filter.
Also, in all my years of driving and with numerous other cars from numerous manufacturers and friends with various other cars and an even broader range of manufacturers, I've never ever blown up an oil filter and I have not known anyone to do so either. I've done cold starts (not started for 8 hours) at -35F all the way up to warm starts at 101F and never destroyed or blew up an oil filter. So what are you guys doing that you are destroying oil filters?
Also, to your comment about engineering time, you wouldn't believe the amount of time spent on the most minor of components. I bet several months were spent on the specifications of an oil filter with a group of people who spent that time doing development work, testing, more testing, validation testing, etc...
Also, the ADBV is designed to prevent dry starts so as long as the filter is full, it's doing the right job. Agreed that silicone is better than rubber, it is for most applications, and it appears that Honda filters use silicone anyway. Being that silicone is a synthetic compound, I would bet that a lot of companies will go that route over time since the price of rubber is quite variable.
You are all free to spend whatever you want on your car but I've never had an issue with running ~5k OCI's on the OEM filter. If you're planning on going longer then sure but I just follow the recommended timings.
FWIW, BMW recommends a 15k (!!) mile OCI on their cars which is total BS. That's one thing the entire community disregards and does 7500-8k mile changes, but still using the OEM filter.
But when you can have a better filter for cheaper than what Honda/Acura is charging for OEM filters, its a no brainer.
BTW I run Bosch 3323 in all 3 of my Acura's and the TL has Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 synthetic in it right now.
#105
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
He still believes Honda "engineers" the filter.
Almost everything engineered on a Honda is contracted out. That includes the small stuff that you refer to, like the oil filter. You honestly think Honda has a team of engineers behind the oil and filter..![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
It's contracted out. It meets a certain spec at a hardline price. Done.
A new guy says we can meet the minimum spec at a lower price.. Sure, Welcome to HoMoCo.![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Almost everything engineered on a Honda is contracted out. That includes the small stuff that you refer to, like the oil filter. You honestly think Honda has a team of engineers behind the oil and filter..
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
It's contracted out. It meets a certain spec at a hardline price. Done.
A new guy says we can meet the minimum spec at a lower price.. Sure, Welcome to HoMoCo.
![Bite Lip](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bitelip.gif)
Every car manufacturer that I've been associated with has had very specific specifications for each product that is going to be used in their vehicle and the vendor must comply with those specifications. Just because it's outsourced doesn't indicate it's of inferior quality. Some vendors even have and use the dies that have been designed and owned by the manufacturer. I once visited the vendor that manufactured the hydroformed frame for the Vette, quite interesting.
A lot of words, but just like oil, take your pick and it will be fine.
You can check the ISO standards for the filters and go from there.
Last edited by Turbonut; 03-20-2014 at 06:01 AM.
#106
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Do you guys seriously believe the specifications and design of the parts that are outsourced are left to the discretion of the vendor?
Every car manufacturer that I've been associated with has had very specific specifications for each product that is going to be used in their vehicle and the vendor must comply with those specifications. Just because it's outsourced doesn't indicate it's of inferior quality. Some vendors even have and use the dies that have been designed and owned by the manufacturer. I once visited the vendor that manufactured the hydroformed frame for the Vette, quite interesting.
A lot of words, but just like oil, take your pick and it will be fine.
You can check the ISO standards for the filters and go from there.
Every car manufacturer that I've been associated with has had very specific specifications for each product that is going to be used in their vehicle and the vendor must comply with those specifications. Just because it's outsourced doesn't indicate it's of inferior quality. Some vendors even have and use the dies that have been designed and owned by the manufacturer. I once visited the vendor that manufactured the hydroformed frame for the Vette, quite interesting.
A lot of words, but just like oil, take your pick and it will be fine.
You can check the ISO standards for the filters and go from there.
#107
The A01 filters are still available to be purchased, most of them only use A01 rather than the honeywell fram filters. As well as honda's oil and filters aren't made by honda themselves, its just like any huge company that outsources their parts, and stamps their logo on it. lol.
#108
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
Don't remember what you write, Alzheimer’s may be in early stage.
#109
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Yet you leave out the part of my quote that explicitly says filter must meet spec. ![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Maybe you need glasses grandpa. Selective reading is usually that of a biased mind.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Maybe you need glasses grandpa. Selective reading is usually that of a biased mind.
#110
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Maybe you think the vendor creates their own specification and makes a phantom product meeting such specification without any customer guidance. ![Chuckle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/chuckle.gif)
Sounds like a winning marketing team to me.
![Chuckle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/chuckle.gif)
Sounds like a winning marketing team to me.
#114
Team Owner
The Mobil One crowd has arrived. I'm guessing the reason you guys are using it is it's "fully synthetic" lol.
Are you going to be going to breakfast this morning?
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
The following users liked this post:
Majofo (03-21-2014)
#116
My first ricer
iTrader: (4)
I've always used M1 but I figure I only change the oil once a year in my car anyways (low miles) and I was happy with what Redline did to the trans so I ordered Redline 5W-20, it'll cost me about $30 more but it's not like I change it every 3 months. I have an M1EP filter on the shelf, anybody wanna sway me to buying a RP one or use what I have?
#117
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Mmmm... Steak and eggs.
I had spam and eggs with a scoop of rice.
I had spam and eggs with a scoop of rice.
#118
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I've always used M1 but I figure I only change the oil once a year in my car anyways (low miles) and I was happy with what Redline did to the trans so I ordered Redline 5W-20, it'll cost me about $30 more but it's not like I change it every 3 months. I have an M1EP filter on the shelf, anybody wanna sway me to buying a RP one or use what I have?
#119
I use Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 with a wix filter in my MKIII supra. Would use german castrol but too expensive and hard to find around here. And M1 is not "fully synthetic" I know. Never had a problem with it. Pennzoil platinum is a pretty good choice to. Purolator pure one is a good choice in filter also.
#120
Instructor
i plan on throwing an S2000 filter on there when i do my next oil change. still a good option? i came from an s2000 and i like having a little part of that car on my TL lol.