AJ's Silver CL

iTrader: (2)

Good Kills !!!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

It's because Dave B is an exceptional driver. His skills alone are more than enough to beat TLs with not as good drivers. I mean, I am sure he knows what the TL is capable of, as he posted a comparison test earlier from Motortrend that even the TL 5AT has a higher trap speed than the G35.

Dave_B

I understand that and I believe the TL times. Now I'm sure you know that those times are corrected for sea level conditions and my 14.3@99.87mph (almost 100mph) was done in near sea level conditions so my 5AT G35 is comparable to the TL 6MT, overall. Sure, it's mag racing, but it gives me a solid idea of what a well driven TL 6MT will do. The thing is most guys are clueless when it comes to racing at the strip. With a manual, they figure you just rev it up and go as fast as possible. Well, that's nearly impossible unless you're sporting slicks or an AWD car. Launching a high powered FWD manual is a HUGE dance. It took me a long time to get my old Maxima into the lower 2.1 60 foot range on street tires. You have to launch high, slip the clutch a bit, and modulate the throttle. You cannot go WOT from the start. A lot of these guys show up to the strip with larger rims too which kills ET/MPH and makes the car far harder to launch.

What I'm trying to say is that I will usually take advantage of people's inexperience when it comes to drag racing. I've beaten lots of quicker cars only because the driver sucked or the driver got really greddy with the throttle when I put a small lead on them from the start.

XxAfG786xX

im guessing its all about the driver

Dave_B

I can't speak for the TL, but the G35 traps reported in that test were a bit odd because in three other tests with the G35 5AT, Motor Trend was getting 96-97mph. Car & Driver has done 14.4s@96mph with the heavier 2005 G35X.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

I heard 5AT G's get better times than the 6mt's G's. Why is that?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I agree Dave, that's the same for the TL as well, where other tests have shown it can trap much higher than 94.4mph.

I also believe those times for the TL and TL-S, 14.3@100mph and 14.1@101mph, if driven by a skilled driver, can be improved too. A good example would be type-s09. Like you've said, launching a higher powered FWD car is very tricky, especially with the 6MT model, from my understanding from reading car mags, when they perform acceleration tests, they only do 3 trials. I am sure it took you more than 3 tries to get down to 2.1 60ft with your Maxima. Sure enough the test drivers have a lot of driving experience, but each car is different and it certainly takes more than 3 tries to get the best launch.

Dave_B

Try about 60 runs to get solidly in the 2.1s on 215/60R15 Goodyear RSA rubber

Dave_B

That's not really true. The 6MTs are fractionally quicker (.1-.2 seconds and 1mph) assuming the 6MT is an above average driver. On DRs or slicks, the 6MT is going to be much quicker.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

What about your G35? how many times did you run before you got 14.32?

Dave_B

7 runs, I think. First run was a launch off idle, no manual shifting, and got a 14.6@97mph. Seond run was with a brake stall launch and manual shifting and did a handful of 14.4s@97mph. Went back to the strip a couple months later in cooler and ran a couple 14.4s then a handful of 14.3s@97/98.

RWD is just that much easier to launch consistently. My 94 Z28 was the same way.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I believe most magazine testers use the brake stall launch methods too when conduction acceleration tests, at least that's what C&D and MT do.

Yea, there's no doubt RWDs are much easier to launch. I think that's the primary reason why you don't see that many TL's getting good times.

6SpdTerror

Great kills!! Not to mention your car is waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy better looking than any of those nissans that u raced.
This guy has taste

Dave_B

Definitely for the 6MTs. The 5AT's problem, for the most part, is it's awful gearing. The 5AT is woefully undergeared.

type-s09

one day i went to the track and ran 4 14.0s all with 2.1 60 fts...tell me that isnt consistent...all on street tires...o and when you say launch high and modulate clutch..thats definatly wrong on a 6-cylinder fwd..i launch at 2k rpm and rapidly releace with out totally dropping the clutch..its all full throttle from there unless traction is loss then its throttle control...with the clutch, the more you ride the clutch the less you are moving..just like tire spinning..

6SpdTerror

When u run at the track do u run with the traction on or off??

Dave_B

That is consistent. My G35 is far more consistent than my Maxima ever was. My G35 will run within less than tenth, even after 4 back to back runs. MPH only varies by .5mph. I should take up bracket racing in the car because it's so damn consistent.

As for launching FWD, I guess it's all dependent on the car. My Maxima weighed ~2,950lbs and had 205whp/200wtq. I experimented with all sorts of launch rpms. When I first started racing it, I was launching at 1800-2300rpms and all I got was spin and then bog. The car was stuck in the upper 2.2s/low 2.3s. I was convinced I was launching too hard. I launched even softer and the 60 foots got worse. Then I decided to get really greedy and go against everything I knew about launching FWD. I upped the launch rpm to 4500-5000rpms, released the clutch quickly, and got all sort of wheel spin, but never any bog and the 60 foots were the same (upper 2.2s). I then tried 4500rpms, slipped the clutch enough to feel the car start rolling, then released the clutch quickly while feeding the gas to keep the rpms above 3500. Instantly I was in the upper 2.1s. I refined the launch as time went on and got it into the low to mid 2.1s. That stock clutch had 113K miles on it when I sold the car and the current owner (3 years now) is still on that stock clutch. Too bad the G35's stock clutch isn't remotely as strong.

type-s09

vsa off FTW..if you have vsa on you will never run a good time...a computer will never replace human reactions...plus the throttle by wire cuts your power even if you are not spinning...go try it..rigth about 5500 rpm it will finally hit full throttle and then the vsa turns on stopping the wheel spin...just learn throttle control and you have the key to a good time...

type-s09

heres a new video guys...i beat a 2001 honda s2000 with intake and exhaust...had about a car length from 50-130..close race..but TL ftw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY0Liu969O4

erick3

how come i'm not as quick as you? sure i'm a five speed auto...but c'mon! i don't think i'd even come close to taking a G35...

i have cai...
i have comptech catbacks...
does the p2r really help that much?! c'mon!!! lol

type-s09

6-speed ftw man...auto is a lot slower

Dave_B

Very true. For whatever reason, Honda hasn't made a correctly geared, fast shifting auto paired with the right type of torque converter stall speed. BMW, Nissan/Infiniti, and GM all have automatics that perform nearly as well as their manual counterparts.

6SpdTerror

So true. Honda's auto trannys do suck. I drove my boy's auto TL and its so sloooooooooww compared to mine!

Manual Transmission

The 6MT on the TL is much, much faster than the 5AT TL. There is a wide gap between the two. For cars like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, G35, don't differ much from AT to the MT in the acceleration but Acura/Honda is very different.

Number 1 factor is the gear ratio, as already mentioned by Dave_B. The 6MT TL has very close gear ratios which will give you a huge jump in power.

Number 2 factor is the Less Drivetrain Power Loss. Here is the run down, from best to worst:

FWD 6MT > FWD AT > RWD 6MT > RWD AT > AWD


Number 3 factor is the lighter weight. The TL 6MT is the lightest in the entire TL class, weighing only 3487 lbs(w/o NAVI). With NAVI, it still only weighs 3494, which is even tiny bit lighter than an IS350.


This is another reason why the 6MT Regular TL cars drive like a 300+ HP car when it's only 258 hp.


In other words, the 6MT FWD is the most efficient powered vehicle. Don't let the 258 hp fool you.... it's a different breed. I test drove the AT version and know how slow it is compare to the 6MT. Yes, it will be faster than the AT TL Type-S, especially in the quarter mile.

.

Manual Transmission

Oh and the 4th, 5th, and 6th gear on the 6MT TL has much more power due to tight gear ratios, you can get from 112~ 150 mph much, much quicker too. It'll just keep going, like the G35's do. Lexus IS350 will suffer a bit here due to poor gearing on the 5th and 6th gear. They are too loose compare to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears on the IS350. That's why that car shines upto around 110 mph or so. This is why the '07 G35 and 335i take over at those high speeds, and the Regular TL 6MT following right behind....

type-s09

the tranny on the is350 was made for "red light to red light acceleration"aka 1/4 mile..they just dont want to suggest taking your $50k lexus to the dragstrip..it traps under 110mph so thats why...5th and 6th are for gas mileage..on an a/t car you have to make the gears longer to compensate for the torque converter to gain the gas mileage

Manual Transmission

of course.

and that is why the IS350 doesn't shine after 110 mph.. it's not meant to be for high speed competition. it is for gas mileage.

Manual Transmission

i know.


That is another reason why I prefer 6MT for much stronger pulls on every single gear. Hell, even the 6th gear on the TL is tighter than the 5th gear on the 5AT TL.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

In return 5AT gets better (by quite a bit too) mileage than the 5AT G35....but..I prefer more speed

ILLustriousUA6

iTrader: (2)

s2k's aren't that fast... is that a F22? ot the old 2.0?? I remember pulling on a S2k in the higher end when i just had an intake.

F23A4

Most mag road tests report only about 1-2 mpg advantage in TL VS G3x comparisons.

Dave_B

Yep, the IS350 is definitely geared for 0 to 110mph acceleration and after that it's weak.

With regards to the torque converter vs gearing, at part-throttle and above 30mph or so, most every late model automatic will lock up the TC and make a direct connection to the tranny making it behave exactly like a manual. There's no slippage therefore there's no severe impact on MPGs. Additionally, a big reason why the autos in BMWs, G/Z/M, and the IS350 perform so well is because the TC will actually lock at WOT depending on gear and rpm. This direct connection greatly improves power to the wheels and throttle response Most autos aren't using this technology yet because the TC has to be extremely robust to handle that type of stress. I can't speak for the BMW and Lexus, but the G/Z/M auto also uses a fairly high stall TC (~3000rpms) therefore making for a harder launch. Judging from the large performance difference between the TL 6MT and 5AT, I doubt the Honda 5AT uses the fancy locking TC or a higher stall TC. Hopefully Honda will wake up and realize that you can make a performance automatic.

Dave_B

Yep. Judging from what I've read on this site, the MPGs between the RWD G and FWD TL are pretty close and will basically be based on the driver. My G tends to see 19mpg in pure city driving and around 27mpg in pure highway driving. On occasion, my G35 has seen as high 30mpg on a flat highway. Right now in the severe cold and the crap winter gas, my G is only seeing around 20mpg in combined driving.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, as from what i've seen, the G is usally at 25-26mpg on the hwy, vs 29-30 for the TL/TLS, AT or MT. City driving however, are the same.

I am not sure if Honda is already doing this, but I hope they will partner with some gearbox company instead, just like those other car companies.

6SpdTerror

I would luv to know what my car would do against a 5AT type-s. Any of u 6MT guys ever raced and auto type-s??

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

In the 3rd gen forum a person (blackura) has dynoed his 5AT TL-S with some bolt-on's and got 261whp.

illstrategy

tell ur boy i got a 6-speed tl-s

6SpdTerror

Im yet to see a CBM TLs around queens. Where did u get ur car from? Paragon?

Nice to see more 6 speeds out there!

StYLeZz101

where in qns r u??? cuz the other night he sed he had a run in with a tls...but had to shut down at 100...we cud set this up

StYLeZz101

has ur car ever been around hillside where qns blvd starts???? i think ive seen a white tl wit ronjon wheels around there...cuz i thought i was the only one around here em until i seen that car