I got an 04 base model TL, 71K miles, with automatic transmission. I need this car to get me a good 200k miles, its my everyday car that i drive back and forth to work. I know if i maintain the engine that goal shouldnt be difficult on Honda engines. BUT, how about the Trani?

How has everyone's experience been with the automatic trani on their TL's? How reliable has it been?

Any help will be appreciated..i am strongly thinking of selling the car and getting myself a manual just because of the fear of losing the trani.

-cheers.

 

I bought my 05 with 61 on the odo and havent had any problems at all, about to hit 72... Im not exactly sure but i think the 04 had some tranny problems??.... Could someone back me up on that?

oh and WDP FTW

 

It did. Not sure if yours was fixed or not. I have a 2006, so I am not up to speed on it.

Read up on the things that you can do to help your tranny last. There are 2 pressure switches that need replaced that will save clutch packs. You can also use synthetic Redline D4 tranny fluid that will save wear.

I change out 3Q of transmission fluid every time (or every other time) that I change oil. For me, this is cheap insurance... and it has worked for over 350K on my accord.

 

I have read up on the 04 trani call back..problem was with the second gear. with cars less than 15k miles they installed an injector that sprayed trani fluid back into the second gear for lubrication and it fixed the issue, cars more than that were serviced and in 9 out of 10 cases the trani was replaced..

I havnt had any problems with the trani so far, but then again the car only has 71k miles on it..i wonder how it would be if it hits the 6 digit number..

350k on original trani?!!! dude that is amazing..

gotta love the WDP

 

"I hate cars" posted a thread about those pressure sensors and how it should greatly extend the life of the tranny. Check it out. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ission+sensors

 

If it's early '04 get the oil jet mod done regardless of mileage. I believe it's free but some of the 2nd gen guys can help out with that.

Use Redline D4 or Redline racing. After running it for a while now and Inaccurate's experience, I honestly would skip the D4 and run the racing stuff. This is not for performance although it helps it to shift quicker. It greatly reduces clutch pack wear. I've seen this and Inaccurate has some great info on the huge reduction of metal on the drain plug with the racing stuff. D4 is excellent and it's a huge step up from the factory Z1 but the racing fluid is even better as far as wear is concerned and there are no downsides. IMO while the D4 is great, it's almost like a stepping stone to the really good stuff.

The switches will help as much or more than the fluid. Now is the time to do it. I would replace them every 60,000 miles. It's $100 spent that will save you thousands down the road.

With the last two mods you will enjoy very nice quick and snappy shifts yet more comfortable than stock.

The engine is just about bullet proof but Redline 5w-30 will guarantee that engine wear is the last thing you will ever have to worry about. A Royal Purple oil filter is the best out there that you can buy at a local store.

I would do a drain and fill of the power steering reservior every oil change. Not a complete flush but just using a turkey baster to empty the reservior and refill it. This is one of the few fluids that should remain OEM though Amsoil has a high viscosity fluid out that will work well.

I would also drain the coolant. Not a flush but just open the valve on the radiator and let it drain. Refill only with Acura or Honda coolant. The reason I recommend this now is when I did mine at 20,000 miles a ton of sand came out which was probably left over from the casting process. After the initial drain and fill, I would only do another drain and fill when the timing belt replacements are due since you have to replace the water pump anyway.

Air filter, stick with OEM. Honda uses a 3 stage oil, guaze, paper element. You're not going to find a better filtering filter out there. The quality is very high and you won't have to worry about the rubber seal cracking and tearing like many aftermarket filters.

 

^^^ damn IHC another bad ass post !!!

I have 135K on OEM ATfluid....i change 3 Quarts every other oil change (10K miles).....I really have to look into D4....you think i should switch at 135K miles ??? and how often should i do a drain and refill ? and a flush ?

Power Steering really ? every oil change ?

Coolant yeah every 20K miles i drain and refill....

 

I meant to say every other oil change with the PS fluid. This was assuming you go by the MID (which I don't) which would put you 10,000-18,000 miles. It's pretty conservative but with no real filter it's not a bad idea. Plus you're only getting maybe 1/3 of the fluid out each time. A single pint will fill it up.

It's always a good time to upgrade the fluid. You've done good by changing the Z1 so often. Changing often helps a lot when you're running Z1, not as much with the good fluids. Personally I would go for the racing fluid but D4 is great too.

 

and how often you have to:

1> flush the racing fluid
2> drain and refill

 

My pressure switches just came today along with a filter. When it gets under 100 degrees here in the midwest, be on the lookout for a thread with pictures.

For the record, my accord got this new tranny at 60K (torque converter known issue)... so only 300Kish on this "new" one.

This "new" transmission was the only expense in almost 20 years that cost more than a new battery or oxygen sensor, so I take really good care of them now.

 

Just drain and refill. 3 quart drain & refill three times with 10-20 miles in between will get mostly racing fluid in there.

From there, it is up to you. I consider ATF insurance - what are you willing to risk?

 

Matt, certainly enjoy your threads and knowledge that is passed along to others, but when reading about the recommended Redline Racing Type F ATF, just couldn't help but think that with the high viscosity it could be detrimental to the Honda/Acura trans. Called Redline and spoke to the tech and under no circumstances should the Type F racing ATF be used in place of the D4 application. In fact, in his words, any racing fluid should be in direct relationship with the factory viscosity, so I'd stay away.
Just my

 

is amsoil atf just as good as redline? i ask because i get a hefty discount on amsoil products..

 

Are you sure it wasn't the "high temp synthetic" fluid? The D4 and "racing" have identical viscosities. The way I look at it is theres a 1% difference in viscosity at operating temp between D4 and Z1. When cold both fluids will be 800% thicker. Everywhere between full hot and cold will be a pretty large viscosity difference. Final operating viscosity differences are very minor compared to the warmup cycle .D4 and racing are actually thinner throughout most of the warmup process but Z1 thins out more when hot. If you look at excessive temps the Redline fluid does not thin out anywhere near what the Z1 does.
lIn fact the Z1 behaves just the opposite of what you would want. Thicker when cold and thinner when hot than D4.
Did you speak with Dave or was it someone else?

 

Have no idea who I spoke with, but I asked about the Type F racing fluid and Z1. If you look at the PDF files on both, the viscosity is quite higher on the Racing ATF and similar to the Syn High Temp ATF:
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...PDS%201-10.pdf

 

You're right and I just looked this up 2 days ago. My memory is not what it used to be.

Going from a 7-ish cSt to a 10 is not a big deal. Cool the Z1 15 degrees and you've done the same thing. Or in other words, TLs in a cold climate with Z1 are already running a thicker fluid. My only point being it won't hurt anything and may provide better protection. It pumps fine when it's cold and >200cSt. You can always mix it with the lightweight stuff.

 

Matt, say what you may, but if the Redline Tech says it's a no go and not to stray from the D4, I wouldn't try it, but that's me, others may do as they see fit.

 

They told Inaccurate it would be fine, it's in another thread.

 

I wanted to add, turbonut, thanks for keeping it civil. These threads seem to turn ugly quick.

Here are the common Redline fluids. The last one on the right is the Chrysler fluid. You have D6 which is for the newer lightweight spec like DexVI. D4 covers many including DexIII, Z1, and others. Syn is a generic synthetic fluid. HT is high temp which is thicker. Race is the type F non friction modified fluid and LW is the light weight racing fluid also non friction modified.

Typical Properties

D6 D4 SYN HT RACE LW
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 6.4 7.5 7.2 10.0 10.0 4.9 7.5
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 30.7 34.0 32.5 53.9 53.7 23.2 32.3
Viscosity Index 166 198 197 172 177 140 213
Brookfield Vis@-40°C,P 45 52 45 175 150 75 38
Pour Point, °C -60 -60 -51 -51 -50 -50 -60
Pour Point, °F -76 -76 -60 -60 -58 -58 -76
Flash Point, °C 249 225 224 238 238 240 222
Flash Point, °F 480 437 435 460 460 464 432

 

Question for anyone.

I have 54k on my car (Auto), bought it last year with 42k, certified from Acura. I have not changed the ATF nor do I know when it was last done. Should I do the 3x3 as well as the pressure switches next oil change (roughly 500 more mile)?

The tranny occasionally lags when shifting, nothing serious, but I was wondering if I should do this to prevent any problems down the line.

 

Just treat other people the way I want to be treated. You bring quite a lot to this Forum and that's what these threads are all about. Someone expresses their opinion on a subject and someone else counters with their thoughts and we go on from there, as you say, in a civil manner.

 

That looks like shit.

Z1 is around 7.2-7.5 when new and shears to 6.0-6.2 after use.

Again, 2.5 cSt higher is no big deal when you can see at 100F a 7.5cSt fluid thickens to 34cSt.

All it takes is a 15 degree temp swing to have a 2.5cSt change and the trans temps regularly vary more than that.

Or said another way, if 10cSt was too thick, all of us that use trans coolers would run into issues.

Here's a viscosity chart with the 3 common Redline oils along with a common Dex III dino oil.



You can see how D4 starts out thicker than the dino oil but ends up thinner at cold temps.

The racing stuff is thicker across the board but take a close look. At a common start up temp like 25C, Racing is 41cSt thicker. It sounds like a lot but look what happens to the D4 if you cool it off a few degrees.

It's safe to say that Z1 and D4 would be somewhat similar on startup in the morning with a temp of 25C (77F). The racing fluid at this temp would be the equivilent of D4 at 12C (54F).

Redline Racing at 5C is about the same vis as Z1 at 0C.

Worrying about a 2.5cSt difference at operating temp doesn't seem that important when D4 and Z1 are 205 and 293cSt respectively on a 32F winter morning.

I would worry more about the minimum required viscosity at operating temp than being too thick.

Anyone worried about the viscosity can do a 2x3 of racing and a 1x3 of light weight racing to get a similar viscosity as D4.

Just for fun I took it out a ways to see where the racing fluid would become thinner than Z1. At -46C (-50F) the Z1 becomes thicker.

I think I have bored myself to death. But there's the info so people can make their own decisions.

 

What if we did a 2 x D4 and 1 x Type F?

 

Can't leave it there. If Redline thought it was no big deal, they certainly wouldn't manufacture various fluids for various applications and you are only speaking of viscosity but remember that there are other additives that differ within each product.

 

Agreed. There's a huge frictonal difference between the D4 and racing fluids. But that's what the TL needs, less FM. The D4 accomplishes this but the racing takes it a step farther. I really think the DBW is what allows us to get away with this. If we used the racing fluid in one of the normal cable throttle cars the shifts would probably be too harsh. With the computer closing the throttle on each shift all you get is a very quick snappy shift with no loss in comfort with the racing.

 

You keep stating this, but sorry to say, Redline and I don't agree.
I'm leaving it here as it would be pure conjuncture to continue on.

 

Redline can't agree that the racing fluid is ok for the Tl as it has not been tested. We need to get Inaccurate in here because Dave told him the racing fluid would not hurt a thing.

We've seen a 75% reduction in metal on the drain plug with this stuff. The only reason it's not recommended is shift quality. With rare exception less FM will always give longer life.

So far I have close to 10,000 miles on the racing stuff. Inacc has a few more I believe. Back when this car had 20,000 miles I swapped the Z1 out for Amsoil ATD. This fluid was thicker and had less FM than Amsoil's regular ATF. This car has 74,000 miles on a non recommended low FM to no FM fluid and 94,000 total.

It's safe to say the racing stuff is not going to hurt trans life and I know it will extend life.

 

Well.... sorta. But you have to read between the lines. See the bold blue text in the quote below. This is a quote from the Racing ATF thread.


A company must be conservative in what they endorse. If you come out and ask a company point-blank "Is it ok for me to use Racing fluid in my daily driven foreign car?", I guarantee you the answer is "No, we do not recommend this."

If a person wants to take the conservative, safe route, by all means, stick with the Honda Z1 fluid and change it once every 100,000 miles or whatever the "recommended" time interval is from Acura. I am sure it will be fine.

For me and others, we believe that there are times in life when we must take charge of your own destiny and not let others make decision for us based on what they feel is important (like keeping maintenance cost low, cushy shifts that wear-out clutches).

I educated myself on this topic so that I could make my own decision on what I felt was best for me.

Racing ATF (click here)

 

Does regular ol' Dex/Merc have less FM that Z1? Would it even be a better choice?

 

Yes. The only fluid that comes close to Z1 in FM is some of the older and possibly newer Chrysler stuff. Any DexIII fluid will have less. That includes D4, Amsoil ATF, Mobil, and many other Dex III fluids.

I truly believe the racing stuff is the best for these cars even if you drive like an old lady. I would feel bad recommending something that would have any negative impact. Even though I knew it was ok I didn't recommend it until myself and several others had accumulated some miles on it.

A DexIII fluid is still a huge step up from Z1 and if you're more comfortable running that, you can't go wrong.

 

fwiw...email from Cameron @ redline.com :

ME : Hello,

I have a 2007 Acura TL Type-S (automatic transmission) and had a few questions regarding Automatic Transmissino Fluid. I do a mix of city/highway driving, and just want whats best for the car.

I have read gobs of information about your product line, my questions are:

1. Can I use Redline D4 ATF for my transmission?
2. Can I use Redline Racing ATF for my transmission?
3. Which one would you recommend, if either?

I'll await your response before I place my order.

Thank you for your time,

Aaron

HIM : Aaron,

1. Red Line D4 ATF is a direct replacement for the OE fluid in your Acura automatic: Honda Z1 ATF. So, yes, use our D4 here.

2. No, you don't want to use Racing ATF. It is too thick for anything but an application that calls for Type Fand doesn't not have the proper friction package for that transmission.

D4 ATF is what you want.

Best regards,

Cameron Evans
Director of Sales & Marketing

 

As Inaccurate said, you have to ask the right question. Of course a company rep is going to say no to the type F.

There are several reasons why they would say no to type F but you have to ask the right questions as Inac did. This says it all...

Inaccurate - "The reason that I ask is if a person has been using D4 with no problems that they could then use Racing ATF with no problem if the two were of the same base. In this way, a person could tailor the amount of overall friction modifiers in their transmission fluid by mixing Racing ATF with the D4."

RedLine - "oh, you could certainly do that. That would be fine. The two fluids are fully compatible with one another. You wouldn't want too much racing fluid because it would cause the converter to have shutter during lock-up.


All I have to say to this is I'm running it as are several others and the trans has never shifted as well as it does now and I bought the car new. Again, over 70,000 miles on a non recommended low FM fluid. 10,000 on a non FM fluid. 94,000 total and it shifts better than the day I bought it with the lowest metal on the drain plug ever.

You guys are free to use what you want and D4 is a safe bet but if you want better shifts and less wear the racing fluid works great.

If you're concerned about the viscosity, order some of the lightweight racing stuff to mix.

 

^thanks for your input on the matter at hand.

i am still on the fence about it, i would ideally like to use the racing fluid (given all the positive reviews i've read about it) but i do not want to have any problems down the line.

you suggested mixing some of the lightweight stuff? what kind of ratio are we talking if i do a full 3x3 drain n fill?

thanks for your help IHC.

 

I believe the ratio (from what I've read in other posts) is two parts racing fluid and one part lightweight fluid.

I think I also read that in case you never changed your ATF for a long time, it would be best to slowly introduce the aftermarket ATF to avoid "shocking" the system. Is this statement still accurate? (I was initially thinking of changing to D4 (3x3) until I ran out and switch to racing ATF, but if skipping D4 is ok, I would look to do that.)

 

I bought my 2006 TL new in January 2006.

I had just 14,700 miles on Z1.

I had 39,786 miles on Mobil1 Synthetic ATF.

I have 7,814 miles on RedLine Racing ATF.

My car does *not* shift like a new TL. It hasn't since I drained that crappy Z1 out of my trans. I would be embarrassed to say that my car shifts like new. The new TL sucked golf balls better than it shifted gears with the Z1 fluid.

At 14,700 miles on March 17 2006, I drained out the oem Z1. Replaced it with Mobil1 Synthetic ATF. I did a 3-quart drain for four times. Yes, 12 quarts of Mobil1 Synthetic ATF. The trans had much snappier, quick shifts with the Mobil1 Synthetic ATF than the oem Z1.

For every 3,500 miles thereafter, I did a single 3-quart drain of the ATF every time I changed the engine oil. Thus, from 14,700 miles to 54,486 miles, I did 13 refills of my trans with Mobil1 Synthetic ATF.

At 54,486 miles on March 2 2010, I drained out the Mobil1 and refilled with RedLine Lightweight Racing ATF. From 54,486 miles to 62,300 miles, I have done 4 refills of my trans with RedLine Racing ATF. The trans shifts gears so quickly that it sounds like a sportsbike shifting gears.

 

That's awesome to hear! I followed you because I figured at your car's weight, if there was going to be an issue with harsh shifts it would be more drastic.

I only wish I had the time and money to run it at the track with Z1 and with the Racing fluid. Just thinking it may be possible to pick up a tenth or so from the positive shifts but that's probably wishful thinking.

 

That expression comes to mind - "Making no decision is a decision".

From the many stories here on Acuarazine, staying with the oem fluid for the recommended change intervals is not a perfectly safe decision either.

Based on the amount of metal needles and metallic sludge on the drain plug, staying with the oem Z1 is a very unwise decision.

I have never seen a metal needle on my drain plug since dumping the Z1 and using the Mobil1. I still had some metallic sludge however. It is believed that the metallic sludge is worn-away clutch material.

Since switching to the RedLine Racing ATF, I have no metal needles and very minimal metallic sludge. I am a very happy camper by what I see (or what I don't see) on the drain plug while running the RedLine Racing ATF.



Please see these post from the Racing ATF thread -

1) click here

2) and click here

3) and click here

 

Correction to my post above -

As posted = "At 14,700 miles on March 17 2006, I drained out the oem Z1."

Correction = "At 14,700 miles on March 17 2007, I drained out the oem Z1."

 

^thank you for all that information. makes my decision a bit easier.

now i just gotta figure out the best bang for the buck while purchasing some lightweight & race atf.

case of 12qts redline race atf is around $120

looks like i'll need 15 qts total, so 10 qts race atf n 5 qts lightweight?

dammit...

 

Why 5 refills? Most people do 3 refills.

For 3 refills, you would need 6 RedLine Racing (PN 30304) + 3 Lightweight Racing (PN 30314). Or, 9 qts total.

"This won't hurt a bit"