SodaLuvr

I just pulled the stick a few days ago on my GM. Now tell me how many miles are on my oil:

SodaLuvr

One of the guys I know has a 98 Camry V6 with 150k+ on it. Changed oil whenever he got around to it. Last oil change we did, it had 13k on the fill of bulk Pennzoil 10W30.

97 Camry V6. Has 95k? on it...every 5k miles with bulk dealer 5W30. No problems either.

As long as you make some effort to change the oil at least every 7500 on most cars that are designed to run conventional oil, its unlikely that you'll have a problem.

x03BlackAccV6x

Yeah but it's all an illusion. It's just Acura's way of extending to service intervals without making any real changes to the cars. Which brings me back to my first post in this thread. Wether they right down in the book or have the car throw a maint. light on at aprox 7,500 miles makes no difference.

x03BlackAccV6x

That's cause we're lucky enough to be driving some of the most reliable cars out there. I remember speaking to one of the field engineers for Honda and he was telling me about a time when 10 CRV's that left the plant with no head gaskets by mistake. The machining on the heads was so precise though that most of them didn't overheat for about 12,000 miles with no head gasket. Just goes to show you how well built theses cars are.

mishar

Extending oil change periods was long overdue in North America. They are on the average three times longer in Europe for at least 15 years. Even with the recent changes they are still twice longer.

When every technical reason says that it should be just the opposite, it creates logical question: Why? I think that frequent oil change creates jobs through whole industry and profits for oil companies. I hope that we all know how powerful they are in North America.

Why now? Well I think that they figured out that it is cheaper to give way somewhere then to confront with all environmental issues at the same time.

pimpin-tl

Sorry but you are incorrect. The dealers changed this interval because oils of today are much better grade than they use to be. In all the Blackstone tests that many have done this has been proven. Why would a dealer change the interval to lose money? Dealers make more money on 3k oil changes than they do 7500 miles.

I suggest you do some studying at bobistheoilguy.com forums and learn about tests on oils, etc. Because you are totally wrong on everything you just posted.

pimpin-tl

It does, but on most blackstone lab tests it can't go near that fall especially the new formula. Still the fact that remains, you can not take your car to 15k on oil changes without voiding your warranty. You must change it in the time recommended.

And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.

pimpin-tl

I would definitely not purchase your car. 15k oil changes on M1 is a nono. Especially if its losing oil, first sign of the oil that isn't lasting.

pimpin-tl

There are known issues with the DEXCOOL that GM started going with. It actually ate away at the seals of the engine and made the headgaskets go prematurely. It happens even on todays cars. Reason why DEXCOOL has articles all over it about this and why people need to flush that crap out.

Even my brothers Olds Silluette Minivan had only 40k of miles and its headgasket got eaten away by the damn dexcool stuff. So did a 96 grand am of ours. Many many other cars have.

That stuff is crap.

SodaLuvr

I have no clue what you are talking about. I have installed Prestone OAT coolants in both my Saturn and Toyota, both of which did not originally come with DexCool, and have had 0 problems. I've also installed it in a Honda minivan with no problems either.

Look...I don't see GM cars lining up at the dealerships and repair shops getting new headgaskets, water pumps, etc on a premature basis. It just doesn't happen. The 3.4L V6 in your Olds Minivan had defective intake manifold gaskets (some even headgaskets) that were unrelated to the coolant used.

Blackstone's oil analysis are good if you drive a GM 3.4 and want to check for coolant leaks , but aside from that, should be taken as a grain of salt given the lame repeatability and questionable accuracy. I would be more inclined to trust the testing of ExxonMobil and the OEM versus Joe Blow oil analysis.

SodaLuvr

ExxonMobil has always made it clear that they do not advocate the 15k service interval on vehicles under warranty. Call them up and that's what they'll tell you. They do not even recommend using M1 EP in vehicles under warranty, at least the last that I checked. (Last year?)

In order for the warranty to be invalidated, oil must be proven to be the cause of failure...

pimpin-tl

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dexcool+problems

From a simple search.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...m_dexcool.html

I need not to say anything further on this. Even Dexcool is not fond of on the BITOG forums. GM cars are having premature problems due to DEXCOOL. It has been a known issue for many many years since they came out. That is a fact. Do some research.

Headgaskets are the main failure due to the DEXCOOL issues. It eats away. There are even pictures of how dexcool eats away at the material on the net.

---

Also if you do not change your oil within the specified period in the owners manual the warranty is automatically voided. You can't prove crap if you prove you did it 15k under warranty, that doesn't meet the specified schedule.

ironviet

Never told you I could tell you how many miles but I can tell you that your oil still appears quite clear but with an unfocused camera and just a digital image it's hard to tell you the fluidity of your oil.

geronimomoe

No doubt whatsoever regarding voiding the warranty if the OCI isn't followed based on manufacturer recommendation (or MID). That's why I follow the MID.

I haven't checked the forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com yet specifically re: the FSS for the MB's but I thought I read somewhere it takes a sample of the oil and determines the remaining life of the oil. But I can say for a fact that with my parents 02 E320, the dealer says to change oil once a year or follow the FSS, whichever comes first. Someone I know who drives mainly highway has gone up to 15000 miles in a MB between oil changes... OK, I didn't have the oil analyzed but don't you think that MB would take a beating if a good number of their motors started to fail with under 100,000 miles? That would be a public relations nightmare for them, for that matter, any car manufacturer, in this case, Acura?

I did a search on bobistheoilguy and found one where the 1 guy ran 7000 miles on 0w-40 in his 1998 328i, had his oil analyzed by Blackstone and was told to check back in 3000 miles.. OK, it's not 5w-20 (Acura recommended viscosity). So, according to that poster, 10,000+ miles seems possible with M1 0w-40.

Another guy (in Madison, Wisconson.. COLD) ran 5w-20 in his son's Accord V6, did a change and test at 4024 miles, was told to change it at roughly 5000 miles next time. HOWEVER, the son makes many 4-5 mile trips to and from school, therefore in severe conditions. If the driving was highway miles, I bet it could handle easily 7500 miles.. OK, I didn't do any oil analysis or this guy hasn't tried 5000 miles or more yet.

That being said, I'd still trust Acura (or MB) automotive engineers with a large sample of data and their recommendations when it came to their cars. So if the MID said change the oil, I'd change the oil, whether it was 4000 miles or 10000 miles, again, following the MID, especially under warranty.. Once out, I'd probably go with my mantra 6 months (May/November or June/December) or MID, whichever came first. (I don't want to change oil by myself in the dead of winter.. it stinks! )

My worth (or less...)

pimpin-tl

geron, new formula is the one I am talking about. M1 just changed it and its not as good as it use to be.

SodaLuvr

You still haven't answered my question...VW uses virtually the same stuff (G-12 and G-12+) in their vehicles for the last seven or more years and have had no problems either...maybe the issue is with GM? Still, I have many friends and neighbors with GM cars running DexCool without problems...including myself. The internet really exaggerates the small # of customers with a complaint. Just think of the Honda transmission paranoia...not all of the 4 and 5-speed autos that were prone to failure have failed. Quite a few of 'em last over 100k miles...in fact, I just went to work yesterday and a guy had 110k on his 00 TL with the original unit.

You need to google for the Magnuson-Moss Act...

x03BlackAccV6x

I have yet to hear an explanation as to why I am incorrect. How are you gonna tell me the dealership makes less money with 7,500k intervals when I have first hand experience? There are plenty of other things that the service department makes money on aside from doing oil changes. Even if the dealership did no maint. on vehicles and did only repairs we wouldn't exactley be starving for work. Trust me, were not really relying on it and have no reason to set-up this intricate scam to rip people off. The next thing your gonna tell me is that the dealership sabotages the cars to do warranty work right?

x03BlackAccV6x

That's not true. The dealership would have to prove that the cause of failure was a direct result of neglect in order for it to deny warranty coverage. In most cases it's easier for the dealer to warranty the repair after going through plenty of diagnostic time to tear down the motor than it is to accuse the customer of doing something wrong and go through a whole customer relations process. There are certain things that are obvious and should no doubt be the customers resbonsibilty (i.e "I was doing 85mph and the accidently shifted into 2nd gear and the piston shot out and hit some grandma walking down the street"). The only time not having your vehicle serviced at the dealership at the recommended intervals is when your vehicle is out of warranty and Acura is considering a goodwill warranty repair. They will ask if the car was serviced at the dealer and how often.

SodaLuvr

You're right on one and wrong on another. Oils today last far longer than those of the past. Heck, if advancements in oil quality have not been made, wouldn't we still be changing oil every 500 miles like we did in the 50s?

However, you are right on the dealership not losing much money (if any at all) from the longer intervals. Here's a little example:

Example #1: Honda V6, without Maintenance Minder system:
3750- oil change, $35
7500- minor service, $119
11250- oil change, $35
15000- intermediate service, $169
18750- oil change, $35
22500- minor service, $119
26250- oil change, $35
30000- major service, $379

This is from my local dealer. The older service schedule calls for a maintenance service every 7.5k, with an oil change in between under severe service. Total cost of maintenance over the 30k period I illustrated is $879.

Example #2: Honda V6, with Maintenance Minder system.

The service dept at the local dealer is telling me that most customers are going in for service about every 6k miles per the maintenance minder system.

A1 service (6k miles)- $119
B1 service (12k miles)- $169
A1 service (18k miles)- $119
B2 service (24k miles)- $379
A1 service (30k miles)- $119

A1 is an oil change, tire rotation. But most dealerships will sell you the basic "minor service" anyway. B1 service is the oil change, tire rotation, and inspection...so most dealers use this opportunity to sell you the intermediate service, which includes a more thorough inspection. And with the B2 service, they try to sell you the major service package anyway even though it includes the ATF/Brake fluid changes in addition to what is called for. (I agree on the additional services though). So, if I add up all the costs, the total cost of services is $905.

So are we really saving money with the Maintenance Minder system?

x03BlackAccV6x

I never doubted that the cars can't handle the extended intervals I only said that in my opinion it would not be optimal. The oil filter is only going to go so long before all filtration is lost and negate any advancements in the quality of the oil.

pimpin-tl

Magnuson act will not save you if you DO NOT MEET the maintenance schedule on any car. That will only protect you if you have performance mods.

Let's see here, I have over 20 years of experience in cars you barely 5?

pimpin-tl

Look, its easy to see it was neglected with 15k oil changes. That is a easy voided warranty. If it says in the manual to replace the oil every 3750 or 7500 then it needs to be done IN THAT TIME FRAME. If it's not its neglect. That is why service receipts or oil receipts are very important and how many miles.

mishar

What an argument! It seems to me that I would be the smartest around here that way. 40 officially, closer to 50 unofficially.

pimpin-tl

mishar, then give us your input.

mishar

Well, I did, but could be that I was not loud enough.

Oil change: according to factory recommendation. Not shorter because it is waste of time and money and it hurts environment. Not longer because you can have trouble with warranty. There I think that you can fight dealership in court, but it would be long and expensive procedure with uncertain outcome.

Baseline: I am not unloved with my car and most certainly not ready to be its slave. Hate washing it and doing any maintenance. Upgrading is something else, of course. On the other hand I can understand some love there, but too much is getting close to fetishism and that is not good at all.

fsttyms1

Well i can attest to 8k oil changes with dino oil till 100k, then switched to 10-15k with synthetic (M1) till 200k when i did my 6 speed conversion. I challenge any one to tell me it wasnt good for the motor! The original cross hatching is still present in the cylinder walls. When i ran 15k intervals it was down less than 1 quart of oil (which every motor consumes oil. It has to. Also for those concerned with the filter, simply Unscrew the filter along the way, fill it up with fresh oil and screw it back on. New fresh filter for filtering the oil. simple as that.


x03BlackAccV6x

Motors Have changed. The tolerances are tighter, materials such as bearings have changed, efficiency of the motors are far superior as far as unburnt fuel not contaminating the oils. So Yes things have changed, Along with oils themselves.

pimpin-tl

I'd be more worried of it sluding up than it protecting the metals. Without tests you can't say for sure that oil was doing its job though. I know if anyone did what you did and at least changed it, you would probably be fine. It's the picky BITOG people that test and show its not doing as well as it should then its no good anymore.

fsttyms1

There wasnt a ounce of sludge in that motor. It was tested, and it was doing its job, or else the motor wouldnt have been in the shape it was when i pulled it out. None of the bearings had any signs of wear either. Thats just my real world Im sure there are some on BITOG that wouldnt approve just on the science alone, but i had real world results that i will stick by and continue to do so.

pimpin-tl

I agree. If its working for you no reason to switch. Plus some engines run cleaner than others.

geronimomoe

You mean the "new" High Mileage Mobil1?

fsttyms1

SodaLuvr

http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...&Number=821732

EKPOLK and GC4Lunch are both attorneys. Yes, differing opinions, even between attorneys. Let's read and discuss...

misterdeedub

What exactly does "MID" stand for? Sorry for the newb question. I just acquired my tls three weeks ago. I know turbo dsms but not Acuras... yet.

kenny5

Right now my 06 TL (about 6 months old) only has 4000 miles and the MID says 30% oil life left. I am going to the dealer, when the odometer hits 4500 miles, for the first oil and filter change, regardless what the MID says. Should I specify what type of oil should be put in, as I am not an aggressive driver and most of my miles are city rather than highway driving? In my case, I think the dealer's "regular" brand oil would work, right?

DMZ

Aside from better formulations in today's oils, especially synthetics, another main reason oil change intervals are getting longer are the computers controlling the ignition systems in newer cars. As these computers get better and better, there's less and less in the way of unburned fuel and air mixtures mixing with the oil.
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Kostyan

I am going to follow MID for intervals, but will change when there is still little oil life left. That will be a safety net to ensure the motor longevity for any driving conditions that MID does not pick up.

Disagree with those of you that switched to synthetic oil and still changing it using the same intervals, it is excessive, and just plainly, a waist of money. Personally, I want to keep my car in a shape, but at the same time spend less time and money on upkeep.

Acura dealers make out like felons on oil changes...in my area, they charge close to 40 bucks for something that other places charge 25. Is Acura's genuine oil filter that expensive, or what is the other reason for such a high cost?

weedeater

MID = Maintenance Indication Display or something similar.

Formula 350

Sodalvr....

You have your real life numbers wrong..... I ONLY change my oil with an A1... so I don't pay $119 like you have...

My tire rotations (and balance at the same time) is with Discount which I paid a fee for life of about $50....

Have not yet had a B1 in 4 years... only have 18K on the car...

cccjoecool

MID=Multi Informational Display