Auto vs manual
08-01-2009, 03:37 PM
#1
Auto vs manual
I have a auto Base model, and when i push the pedal down all the way it lags before it starts to go. My brother thought it was because of the "drive by wire" system. I was driving his car 1991 3.0L V6 Mr2 and the power came on instantly. Then i thought because the TL has a lot less torque than most cars. So is the Manuel take less time for the power to "come on".
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
08-01-2009, 04:09 PM
#3
'10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
I have a auto Base model, and when i push the pedal down all the way it lags before it starts to go. My brother thought it was because of the "drive by wire" system. I was driving his car 1991 3.0L V6 Mr2 and the power came on instantly. Then i thought because the TL has a lot less torque than most cars. So is the Manuel take less time for the power to "come on".
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
Automatics always take a while to find the right gear, which is why I utilize SS mode so that the lag is eliminated.
08-01-2009, 04:16 PM
#4
Safety Car
iTrader: (4)
Hope your not implying that your switching to royal purple oil because its gonna get rid of lag lol. Dont spend more on motor oil than you need to and going out of your way to track down royal purple. The engine will last just as long using regular oil from autozone or whatever.
I personally use Mobile one Synth in my 07 Type S.
As far as lag is concerned any automatic takes time to downshift before it gets goin. If this isnt what your referring to then im not sure. I have owned two TL's. A 07 base and now an 07 Type S. I notice no lag because of the "drive by wire" system. Once it downshifts it goes.
I personally use Mobile one Synth in my 07 Type S.
As far as lag is concerned any automatic takes time to downshift before it gets goin. If this isnt what your referring to then im not sure. I have owned two TL's. A 07 base and now an 07 Type S. I notice no lag because of the "drive by wire" system. Once it downshifts it goes.
08-01-2009, 04:47 PM
#5
I have a auto Base model, and when i push the pedal down all the way it lags before it starts to go. My brother thought it was because of the "drive by wire" system. I was driving his car 1991 3.0L V6 Mr2 and the power came on instantly. Then i thought because the TL has a lot less torque than most cars. So is the Manuel take less time for the power to "come on".
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
08-01-2009, 05:02 PM
#6
08-01-2009, 05:42 PM
#7
Trending Topics
08-01-2009, 06:51 PM
#8
I have a auto Base model, and when i push the pedal down all the way it lags before it starts to go. My brother thought it was because of the "drive by wire" system. I was driving his car 1991 3.0L V6 Mr2 and the power came on instantly. Then i thought because the TL has a lot less torque than most cars. So is the Manuel take less time for the power to "come on".
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
I met another board member, i forgot his board name; he had an 2006 NBP base w/ navi in Rockville/ Gaithersburg. He told me to use royal purple oil synthetic vs regular oil. I will probably try this in about 2000 miles as i just got my oil changed a little while ago.
-Alex
08-01-2009, 08:17 PM
#10
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,599 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
Agree on the intake, the DBW lag is a known issue with the TL.
Its not an issues on launch with a 6MT because you have already put up more RPM's before you engage the clutch then you can with a 5AT even if you torque brake it.
The RP oil will do nothing for this issue other then empty your wallet faster then either a regular synthetic or dino oil.
Its not an issues on launch with a 6MT because you have already put up more RPM's before you engage the clutch then you can with a 5AT even if you torque brake it.
The RP oil will do nothing for this issue other then empty your wallet faster then either a regular synthetic or dino oil.
08-01-2009, 08:22 PM
#11
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Age: 31
Posts: 17,431
Received 1,485 Likes
on
1,049 Posts
Is it from a dig or from a roll? If it's from a dig, then it's probably the DBW, although my 92 Cavalier did the same thing from a dig, and Lord knows that thing has never heard of DBW. If it's from a roll, it's just the car downshifting.
08-01-2009, 09:02 PM
#12
Registered Member
My '04 manual doesn't. And neither does my '05 automatic. Now if I was in first gear with my manual at, say, idle speed and the clutch fully engaged and nailed it, I wouldn't expect the engine to pull like crazy at that low of an RPM. After all, it's not a large engine. But once over around 1500 RPM, it pulls quite handsomely.
08-02-2009, 08:37 AM
#15
Registered Member
08-02-2009, 11:15 AM
#16
Team Owner
At 1,500rpm the TL makes maybe 60hp and very little torque. That's just the way it is.
08-02-2009, 11:42 AM
#17
Registered Member
A stock '04 TL engine produces around 60 HP at 1500 RPM, and around 203-205 lb/ft of torque at the same engine speed. At 1000 RPM, it's producing about 190 lb/ft of torque. (source: power graph in the 2004 brochure).
08-02-2009, 11:50 AM
#18
08-02-2009, 11:53 AM
#19
Team Owner
I pulled those numbers off the top of my head to illustrate that there's little power available down there. Though 190lbs at 1,000rpm sounds like big block territory. I would question those numbers.
08-02-2009, 12:12 PM
#20
Registered Member
But the one thing that is missing here is the fact that at very low RPM's the engine is just not going to spool up very fast. It will make good torque numbers which will allow the eingine to climb a steep driveway. But horsepower is a factor of work performed over time and at really low RPMs not much HP is produced.
08-02-2009, 12:22 PM
#21
Team Owner
I know, I would have as well. That's why I gave my source so that no one would think I was making it up.
But the one thing that is missing here is the fact that at very low RPM's the engine is just not going to spool up very fast. It will make good torque numbers which will allow the eingine to climb a steep driveway. But horsepower is a factor of work performed over time and at really low RPMs not much HP is produced.
But the one thing that is missing here is the fact that at very low RPM's the engine is just not going to spool up very fast. It will make good torque numbers which will allow the eingine to climb a steep driveway. But horsepower is a factor of work performed over time and at really low RPMs not much HP is produced.
Interesting. Next time I go to the dyno I'll have to try a pull from a low rpm. I guess the stall speed is as low as I would be able to go.
These things could really benefit from more stall but I guess the tradeoff in heat and mpg wouldn't be worth it to 99% of auto owners.
08-02-2009, 12:28 PM
#22
Registered Member
Interesting. Next time I go to the dyno I'll have to try a pull from a low rpm. I guess the stall speed is as low as I would be able to go.
These things could really benefit from more stall but I guess the tradeoff in heat and mpg wouldn't be worth it to 99% of auto owners.
These things could really benefit from more stall but I guess the tradeoff in heat and mpg wouldn't be worth it to 99% of auto owners.
08-02-2009, 02:12 PM
#23
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,599 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
It would take some very serious mods to get more out of it & most likely they would produce more power at higher RPM's & not be very useful on the street.
08-02-2009, 02:51 PM
#24
Registered Member
I believe that's why these guys get such little horsepower increases out of their dollars spent. This engine is about as far as it will go for street use right from the factory. Guys here are already breaking their motor mounts & tearing out rear sway bar mounts with the little bit extra they can get out of it.
It would take some very serious mods to get more out of it & most likely they would produce more power at higher RPM's & not be very useful on the street.
It would take some very serious mods to get more out of it & most likely they would produce more power at higher RPM's & not be very useful on the street.
Our engines really do a great job of delivering decent performance for the TL. They really do. Quite frankly, I'm very pleased with mine and have no regrets at all. It still puts a smile on my face. As a matter of fact, within the past two hours, I took my '04 manual out for a 16 mile "TL moment" on some of the fine two-lane and four-lane roads in my area. Just enjoying feeling it move down the road made me happy.
08-02-2009, 02:58 PM
#25
Registered Member
Incidently, I saw a brand new Pontiac G8 GXP yesterday in a strip shopping center in my area around 3:00pm. It was purchased on July 17th and was bright red. While I'm not a fan of red cars, this was quite beautiful. The one serious down side was the fact that it was an automatic!. But it was a GXP. The front Brembo rotors were huge. This is the second one I've seen in my little area in 6 days.
It really is a shame that Pontiac is going the way of the dinosaur. The G8 is the best thing they've had in decades and they are going away.
It really is a shame that Pontiac is going the way of the dinosaur. The G8 is the best thing they've had in decades and they are going away.
08-02-2009, 04:14 PM
#26
Drifting
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this. To really get a decent increase in power, you either have to go with some serious internal work, along with an increase in displacement, or a blower, or both. This means a fair amount of money and perhaps losing some steetability.
Our engines really do a great job of delivering decent performance for the TL. They really do. Quite frankly, I'm very pleased with mine and have no regrets at all. It still puts a smile on my face. As a matter of fact, within the past two hours, I took my '04 manual out for a 16 mile "TL moment" on some of the fine two-lane and four-lane roads in my area. Just enjoying feeling it move down the road made me happy.
Our engines really do a great job of delivering decent performance for the TL. They really do. Quite frankly, I'm very pleased with mine and have no regrets at all. It still puts a smile on my face. As a matter of fact, within the past two hours, I took my '04 manual out for a 16 mile "TL moment" on some of the fine two-lane and four-lane roads in my area. Just enjoying feeling it move down the road made me happy.
I have an automatic and the sequential shift is excellent on mountain roads. I don't use SS much in the city because the automatic is pretty good as it is. I've had many manual cars in my past and this automatic is no slouch at all with shifts. I had a Maxima SE (auto) that was a big slouch (picking the wrong gear and bogging down) and I regretted not getting the 5 speed manual but not the TL.
08-02-2009, 04:21 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canaduh!
Age: 56
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
I believe that's why these guys get such little horsepower increases out of their dollars spent. This engine is about as far as it will go for street use right from the factory. Guys here are already breaking their motor mounts & tearing out rear sway bar mounts with the little bit extra they can get out of it.
It would take some very serious mods to get more out of it & most likely they would produce more power at higher RPM's & not be very useful on the street.
It would take some very serious mods to get more out of it & most likely they would produce more power at higher RPM's & not be very useful on the street.
08-02-2009, 10:21 PM
#30
Senior Moderator
getting back onto topic, the AT transmission does have lag and the MT can have lag too, there are two reasons for this lag:
1. Drive by wire, it takes a few ms for it to interpret the command and send it out, any electronic will do this. This is most evident when you are at a redlight and when you stomp on it when it turns green, there's a little delay.
HOWEVER, the MT folks won't feel/know this. When they stomp on the gas, the clutch is engaging still, so in the time it engages, the lag is already done with.
2. Downshifting, if you are cruising at 60 MPH and then you want to pass, you stomp on it. The car needs to downshift to 3rd gear in order to get you into the power band. It takes about a second to do this.
1. Drive by wire, it takes a few ms for it to interpret the command and send it out, any electronic will do this. This is most evident when you are at a redlight and when you stomp on it when it turns green, there's a little delay.
HOWEVER, the MT folks won't feel/know this. When they stomp on the gas, the clutch is engaging still, so in the time it engages, the lag is already done with.
2. Downshifting, if you are cruising at 60 MPH and then you want to pass, you stomp on it. The car needs to downshift to 3rd gear in order to get you into the power band. It takes about a second to do this.
08-03-2009, 04:52 AM
#32
Instructor
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08-03-2009, 05:03 AM
#33
Registered Member
08-03-2009, 06:22 AM
#34
Takes a (short) while for the fluid to open up the kickdown valve, and for the computer to register it all for anything to even happen. As smart and as fast as it is, it doesn't want to fudge anything up by dropping it into 1st gear at 60 mph if you drop the hammer.
08-03-2009, 11:19 AM
#37
Full of water...
i have never driven a honda/acura that "took off" when the pedal was slammed to the floor from a dead stop, there just isnt enough power to get it moving and the car just wont allow it to happen. it is always best to get it rolling a bit before you slam on the gas...
08-03-2009, 01:27 PM
#38
.a BUM with SMG...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Houston
Age: 34
Posts: 886
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not much of different though, i mean if you in the drag, you should pick the auto, but when racing in the track and cornering, should pick the manual for faster response on the gears
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rp_guy
Member Cars for Sale
9
07-16-2017 07:33 AM
08_UA7_Gr33k
Member Cars for Sale
13
02-11-2016 02:17 PM
lanechanger
Member Cars for Sale
4
10-13-2015 10:56 AM