AP2s are dirty quick
07-13-2011, 03:53 PM
#41
16GS FSprt,03Max,12 335is
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Manhattan Beach, Ca / Dallas, Tx
Age: 51
Posts: 976
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Fella I hope you aren't calling me a troll as your arrow is pointing up to my post. I great knowledge of what TLS and Z is capable of stock in "reality" after owning both. I don't go around calling people trolls/name calling in this forum and have been here for 9 yrs etc based on their opinion in this forum and its just that opinions, no opinions are the same and we don't all always agree thats life. You seem to have a troll/name calling problem which I have noticed before, grow up as in life everyone has opinions and no ones is always right...If you think so you will have problems as you get older!
07-14-2011, 07:39 PM
#42
Senior Moderator
MODERATOR'S NOTE TO ALL: The term 'troll' is an unnecessary pejorative reference in this discussion. Those being labeled as such (in this thread) are lending their opinions and insight to this conversation. Should you NOT agree with their position then feel free to post a legitimate counterpoint(s). But if it's just their participation that's being objected to then, YOU have the option of not participating at all.
07-15-2011, 09:26 PM
#43
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
Sigh. I guess you really don't get it, do you? Barely beats a BONE stock AP2. With just FlashPro ($600) and testpipe+exhaust+intake ($70/400/130), an AP2 will pick up an extra 20-30 whp... at peak. One thing I don't get about the majority of TL owners is that they seem to have limited understanding of midrange power and power gains in general.
It doesn't matter how much whp you pick up at peak.
Peak is held for a fraction of a second, yet you go around quoting 'peak' whp. What matters is midrange gains. The majority of time spent after shifting is in your midrange climbing back up to peak.AP2's will gain 30-40 whp from 4-8k RPM with the boltons I mentioned. They'll rape a fully bolted TL Type S, no doubt about it. AP2 with those boltons is trapping a solid 103-105 MPH.
And my bank account is just fine, thank you. I'm also picking up an 05 TL 6 speed on Thursday - as a daily driver. Funny that a TL owner would try to talk shit about S2000's being expensive to mod - a TL exhaust costs over $1k.
Anyways, like you said, apples to oranges: an S2000 destroys a TL in overall performance, while the TL handily beats out the S2000 for practicality and comfort.
It doesn't matter how much whp you pick up at peak.
Peak is held for a fraction of a second, yet you go around quoting 'peak' whp. What matters is midrange gains. The majority of time spent after shifting is in your midrange climbing back up to peak.AP2's will gain 30-40 whp from 4-8k RPM with the boltons I mentioned. They'll rape a fully bolted TL Type S, no doubt about it. AP2 with those boltons is trapping a solid 103-105 MPH.And my bank account is just fine, thank you. I'm also picking up an 05 TL 6 speed on Thursday - as a daily driver. Funny that a TL owner would try to talk shit about S2000's being expensive to mod - a TL exhaust costs over $1k.
Anyways, like you said, apples to oranges: an S2000 destroys a TL in overall performance, while the TL handily beats out the S2000 for practicality and comfort.
07-19-2011, 08:32 AM
#44
All motor
Everyone knows that S2Ks are great cars. They are dependable, performance oriented, have great styling, and are pretty quick; not to mention RWD. The fact is, they just aren't that fast in NA form. I haven't seen S2Ks gain that much at all from full bolt ons/tune. Maybe 20whp. The midrange didn't gain your magical 30-40whp/tq either. We aren't talking about the K series.
The F20/2c are pretty maxed out from the factory. A catback w/test pipe gains what, 6-7whp? A header gains even less. From the tune alone I've seen maybe 7-9whp/tq throughout the midrange with full bolt ons and maybe 4-5whp peak. I've seen quite a few S2K dynos.
Now on to the TL-s. This particular TL-s was automatic. He is probably putting down about 250-255whp/220wtq through his automatic. He also had a passenger while the S2K did not. A 6MT with the same mods will put down 270-275/240.
Show me bolt on S2Ks that trap 105mph without gears & a smaller tire combo. They max at about 225-230whp NA. Even with your quoted 'great' midrange, they aren't fast in NA form.
I'd love to run a modded S2K. I put 3+ cars on a stock AP2 awhile back when I was full bolt on. My car is begging for a tune. My AFRs are probably all over the place.
I'm not taking anything away from the S2K. I personally love the car. But in a straight line they just aren't that fast. Put a bolt on/tuned S2K vs. a bolt on/tuned TL or TL-s 6MT. I guarantee you'd be surprised./rant
The F20/2c are pretty maxed out from the factory. A catback w/test pipe gains what, 6-7whp? A header gains even less. From the tune alone I've seen maybe 7-9whp/tq throughout the midrange with full bolt ons and maybe 4-5whp peak. I've seen quite a few S2K dynos.
Now on to the TL-s. This particular TL-s was automatic. He is probably putting down about 250-255whp/220wtq through his automatic. He also had a passenger while the S2K did not. A 6MT with the same mods will put down 270-275/240.
Show me bolt on S2Ks that trap 105mph without gears & a smaller tire combo. They max at about 225-230whp NA. Even with your quoted 'great' midrange, they aren't fast in NA form.
I'd love to run a modded S2K. I put 3+ cars on a stock AP2 awhile back when I was full bolt on. My car is begging for a tune. My AFRs are probably all over the place.
I'm not taking anything away from the S2K. I personally love the car. But in a straight line they just aren't that fast. Put a bolt on/tuned S2K vs. a bolt on/tuned TL or TL-s 6MT. I guarantee you'd be surprised./rant
07-19-2011, 09:25 PM
#45
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
^^ I ran a fully bolted AP2 two or three years ago, from both a 5 and 50 mph roll. I wanted to do it from a dig, but he wanted the 5 mph. I had everything in my sig, minus the HFC's and drag radials and I pulled hard both times. Granted, he had a passenger, but I still pulled hard enough to negate the fact that I didn't. It wasn't even close from either speed. In all honesty, the fully bolted/K-Pro Civic SI that I played with put up a much better fight to about 50 mph from a dead stop, but he had no passengers.
The bad thing is, that S2K driver didn't get the memo his car sucks in the snow. I saw it off the road, wrapped around a utility pole a couple months later, around X-Mas time!
The bad thing is, that S2K driver didn't get the memo his car sucks in the snow. I saw it off the road, wrapped around a utility pole a couple months later, around X-Mas time!
07-20-2011, 01:08 AM
#46
Everyone knows that S2Ks are great cars. They are dependable, performance oriented, have great styling, and are pretty quick; not to mention RWD. The fact is, they just aren't that fast in NA form. I haven't seen S2Ks gain that much at all from full bolt ons/tune. Maybe 20whp. The midrange didn't gain your magical 30-40whp/tq either. We aren't talking about the K series.
The F20/2c are pretty maxed out from the factory. A catback w/test pipe gains what, 6-7whp? A header gains even less. From the tune alone I've seen maybe 7-9whp/tq throughout the midrange with full bolt ons and maybe 4-5whp peak. I've seen quite a few S2K dynos.
Now on to the TL-s. This particular TL-s was automatic. He is probably putting down about 250-255whp/220wtq through his automatic. He also had a passenger while the S2K did not. A 6MT with the same mods will put down 270-275/240.
Show me bolt on S2Ks that trap 105mph without gears & a smaller tire combo. They max at about 225-230whp NA. Even with your quoted 'great' midrange, they aren't fast in NA form.
I'd love to run a modded S2K. I put 3+ cars on a stock AP2 awhile back when I was full bolt on. My car is begging for a tune. My AFRs are probably all over the place.
I'm not taking anything away from the S2K. I personally love the car. But in a straight line they just aren't that fast. Put a bolt on/tuned S2K vs. a bolt on/tuned TL or TL-s 6MT. I guarantee you'd be surprised./rant
The F20/2c are pretty maxed out from the factory. A catback w/test pipe gains what, 6-7whp? A header gains even less. From the tune alone I've seen maybe 7-9whp/tq throughout the midrange with full bolt ons and maybe 4-5whp peak. I've seen quite a few S2K dynos.
Now on to the TL-s. This particular TL-s was automatic. He is probably putting down about 250-255whp/220wtq through his automatic. He also had a passenger while the S2K did not. A 6MT with the same mods will put down 270-275/240.
Show me bolt on S2Ks that trap 105mph without gears & a smaller tire combo. They max at about 225-230whp NA. Even with your quoted 'great' midrange, they aren't fast in NA form.
I'd love to run a modded S2K. I put 3+ cars on a stock AP2 awhile back when I was full bolt on. My car is begging for a tune. My AFRs are probably all over the place.
I'm not taking anything away from the S2K. I personally love the car. But in a straight line they just aren't that fast. Put a bolt on/tuned S2K vs. a bolt on/tuned TL or TL-s 6MT. I guarantee you'd be surprised./rant
Originally Posted by Sonnick
I haven't seen S2Ks gain that much at all from full bolt ons/tune... From the tune alone I've seen maybe 7-9whp/tq throughout the midrange with full bolt ons and maybe 4-5whp peak. I've seen quite a few S2K dynos.
Good thing us S2000 owners have you and your vast knowledge to speak for us, right?
Last edited by DisgustipatedAP1; 07-20-2011 at 01:12 AM.
07-20-2011, 10:36 AM
#47
All motor
Not a bad gain at all. Most of the dynos I've seen didn't show that much midrange gain, hence my response. Like I said, I think they are great cars, but from what I've heard and seen, they aren't as quick as you make them out to be in NA form.
Where are you from anyways? Are you modded? You should be able to slaughter a bolt on Accord, no?
For someone to come at me saying "it's good we have knowledgeable people like (me) to speak for S2K owners," look at yourself. You are spewing nonsense of TL's. Like I said, show me some S2Ks trapping 103+ in NA form without gears/tire.
Where are you from anyways? Are you modded? You should be able to slaughter a bolt on Accord, no?
For someone to come at me saying "it's good we have knowledgeable people like (me) to speak for S2K owners," look at yourself. You are spewing nonsense of TL's. Like I said, show me some S2Ks trapping 103+ in NA form without gears/tire.
07-20-2011, 10:55 AM
#48
All motor
I did find 1 S2K that trapped 105.9 apparently in NA form with bolt ons/tune and made 227whp. However, it doesn't seem to make much sense given power/weight ratio. They weigh what, 2800lbs? 227whp in a 2800lb shell equates to 106 trap??
07-22-2011, 04:58 AM
#49
Also, please see this thread for my impressions on how fast TL's really are: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/i-wrong-ap2s-dirty-quick-but-tls-filthy-quick-827031/
07-22-2011, 08:39 AM
#50
All motor
2750 bone stock on AP1's, under 2700 lbs with mods + less gas in the tank/spare tire etc delete.
Also, please see this thread for my impressions on how fast TL's really are: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827031
Also, please see this thread for my impressions on how fast TL's really are: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827031
I know S2K's are quick, but I didn't think they would be so quick as to trap 105 in the 1/4. I'm sure a fully bolted/geared S2k would change my mind though
And I guess I didn't really admit I was wrong about the S2K gaining that much in midrange, it does. And I was
11-07-2011, 12:28 PM
#51
S2k looks fast and are great cars. Avg 1/4 mile for these cars are 14.5 and best 13.9 stock or plus bolt on.
Today's standard, that is slow. Any real power gain will be through FI which will set you back 10k and high maintenance fees.
I'll post this again... Cheap $200 nos kit on a stock tl auto will spank a s2k ap1 or ap2. You are more than welcome to add nos to the s2k. The result will be the same vs tl with nos.
I'll look for my old vid...
Btw... Here's ,y experiences with mid 25k cars. Avg ownership 1.5-2yr
Tl - best bang for your buck sedan/luxury
Rx8 - slow but best handling. Blast to drive
wrxsti - fast and fun
Evo8 - fast and fun... More reliable than sti
S2k - sexy (felt like fast and furious)
G35 coupe - clean same speed as s2k but got bored quick
05 350z ... Like this car the least... Slow and expensive to add power
Ultimate sedan would be to supercharge my tl. Anyone selling? Send me a pm
Today's standard, that is slow. Any real power gain will be through FI which will set you back 10k and high maintenance fees.
I'll post this again... Cheap $200 nos kit on a stock tl auto will spank a s2k ap1 or ap2. You are more than welcome to add nos to the s2k. The result will be the same vs tl with nos.
I'll look for my old vid...
Btw... Here's ,y experiences with mid 25k cars. Avg ownership 1.5-2yr
Tl - best bang for your buck sedan/luxury
Rx8 - slow but best handling. Blast to drive
wrxsti - fast and fun
Evo8 - fast and fun... More reliable than sti
S2k - sexy (felt like fast and furious)
G35 coupe - clean same speed as s2k but got bored quick
05 350z ... Like this car the least... Slow and expensive to add power
Ultimate sedan would be to supercharge my tl. Anyone selling? Send me a pm
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