Hi, I'm considering a 2007 TL but have been looking at the BMW 328XI too. Are there any BMW converts who switched to the TL because of poor quality and reliability with their BMW? I've been reading that BMW quality and reliability is nothing to write home about. Because you get so much more for your money I'm leaning towards the Acura.

 

Nope, it's not.

A similarly equipped 330XI to my TL was about 10K more IIRC. Not worth the extra money at all. Reliability is no better than the TL, repairs are triple the cost after warranty, and you just dont get what you pay for compared to the TL. It's such an over-hyped car. M3 is a different story, but still overpriced IMHO. All german cars are overpriced.

My dad has a 2005 E500 4-Matic, 63K sticker, no HID's no Nav, sure it's quiet, fast, blah blah blah, but compared to an RL for example, not worth 13-15K more for a similarly equipped one wih the HID's and Nav just to mention a couple of options.

 

You can't really say that BMW's quality is going down. The entire auto industry improves every year with the exception of a few makes (Land Rover, etc). BMW is just being outpaced in terms of year to year improvement in quality and customer satisfaction.

 

I didn't say that BMW quality is going down, just that its nothing to write home about. I've been reading complaints from BMW owners about dissatisfaction with quality and reliability. If i'm going to be spending upwards of 40K for a car I want it to be free of problems for at least the first 3 or 4 years of ownership or even longer.

 

you hit the nail right on the head brother-man!

 

German cars are fun to drive, when you actually have the chance to drive it. I know people with Mercedes, Bimmers, audi's etc and they all seem to bitch how thier car is in the shop more than they're able to drive it.

 

I have a co-worker that is a total Bimmer nut. He thinks there are no other cars to consider on the market. He had a '03 M3 up until about 2 months ago (traded for a new '06 330i). He had 3 BMWs prior to the M3.

All he ever did was complain about all the thinks that broke on the M3. Xenon headlights (one replaced twice, the other once because they stopped working), both power window motors (each stopped working), starter (car was towed to the dealer), radio (kept malfunctioning), etc.

The funniest part was that the service department (at a very large dealer) was so backed up that it usually took about 7 days before he could get his car in. If the car was dead, they did give him a loaner. If it was a one day repair, they just drove him to work and I ended up driving him back to pick up his car. Funny how we always get a loaner...rather than a ride to work.

 

sorry to go off topic...but we get loaners?

how often? i thought it was only for warrenty repairs. does acura give loaners for things such as oil changes, etc?

 

FWIW, I had a 3 series before the TL and absolutely loved the car. I had a couple of things, such as the window regulators replaced. All the warranty/maintenance work was handled quickly both in NY and here in CO. My experience with the car was one of high quality and reliability, compared to other vehicles I've owned (mostly US made).

I too, purchased the TL because of the price difference about $10-12K less than the BMW I was looking at. I'm pretty happy with the TL quality & relaiability wise. Acura and Honda have a very good reputation. The maintenance costs are less than the BMW, but still a bit steep for my tastes if you go to the dealer. That's why I do the maintenance myself on the TL, as I did on the BMW when the service plan expired. Saved quite a bit of money.

All that being said, I don't think you can wrong with either car. They're both built well and well equipped. The TL is easier on the checkbook each month, but overall the BMW was a more enjoyable car to drive (RWD vs FWD). I have been thinking about the new 335 as a possible replacement for the TL, because I really miss the performance and handling of the BMW.

 

I might be...

Just look at my sig...

Lol...

 

A colleague (who's Volvo had broken down -- again) said his tow truck driver listed the new cars that he tows most frequently, in descending order:

1. Mercedes
2. BMW
3. Audi

All were for electrical problems which are devilish for mechanics to find & repair.

Note that American and Pacific Rim car manufacturers didn't make his list.

When deciding which car to buy, reliability was my overriding factor. So was simplicity of controls, so the iDrive was out, out, out. Some "Ultimate Driving Machine". BMW originally omitted cup holders because the Car was for Driving. I think BMW has lost their focus and companies like Acura are fast outpacing them.

All of this is too bad since the Germans invented the Sports Sedan. They're well on the way to loosing the market they themselves created.

Personally, I bought a TL-S 6MT that just arrived at the dealership. I'll pick it up on over the next few days. As others have said, its fast, fun, reliable, & cheap to own & insure. Its the proper car for me.

 

I just picked up a 2006 TL after deliberating for far too long. It was down to a 328 or the TL to replace my A4. With the recent incentives, the pricing difference became too large to ignore - as stated here about $10k. The BMW was a better drive, and the cornering under acceleration was amazing. In comparson, the torque steer under hard acceleration (particularly when cornering and on uneven road surfaces) is a problem for the TL.

However, that's really the main advantage the BMW had. At the same $10k price difference, the TL has a far better interior, just as smooth an engine, as good or better manual transmission, better ergonomics, more room, and better reliability (not that it seems to be a major problem with BMW's though - my dads 3 is very reliable).

One thing that might seem to be a minor detail that really bugged me was the run flat tires on the 3 series. They give a rougher ride, and although you can replace them with regular tires for a much improved ride, BMW offers no space for a spare! So if you do replace the run flats, you have to take up a large part of your trunk to carry a spare, or carry an emergency repair kit and hope the damage isn't too severe. I take longer trips throughout the year to New England (some to the remote mountain areas), and neither of these options work for me. I'm carrying lots of outdoor gear so there's no room for a spare, and its difficult to get a run flat here outside of Philly even if you have a few days to wait, so you can imagine its impossible in north New Hampshire or Maine.

Maybe in the future I'll get a BMW as a second car, but it wasn't the right fit today. So far I'm loving the TL...

 

I had a new 3 series as well. I got rid of it because I kept having electrical problems.

1) Both door mirrors would wig out randomly and start moving around on their own and I could not get them to stay in the position I set them. Dealer replace the computer.

2) My radio would get a lot of static when listening to FM when I turned on the defroster. When I turn it off, radio stations were crystal clear. Dealer could not fix.

3) Problem with fuel pump making a loud whine randomly for several minutes at a time. I did not get it fixed and the noise stopped happening after I hit 1000 miles.

4) Ignitors replaced due to hard starting/stuttering motor on acceleration. This was actually a TSB from BMW on this problem.


So, I turned in my BMW after the lease was up and bought a TL. I love the features and comfort of the TL but the fit and finish is definetly much lower quality than the BMW.

I do not really miss my BMW other than the handling. ....DAMN.... That road feel is just amazing.

 

I traded 2004 330i ZHP (Perf Package) w/14K miles for 2006 TL w/Nav. So far - I'm happy.
BMW ran like crap. Coils replaced twice. RPMs used to drop below 300, sometimes would die. Couldn't stand goinig to the dealer twice a month. Previously had 99 323i, 2002 325Ci, all had problems, especially with front suspension at 15K, I had to invlove BMWNA to get it fixed.

The only thing I miss was the ability to turn on a dime. TL is not as flexible....
I'm still thinking of going back to BMW, if they fix their issues. I have a friend whose a mechanic for BMW dealer in Naperville IL, it doesn't seem that the new 3 is any better.

 

I hear ya. Had a 3 series a few cars back. It was a fantastic driving car and never stranded me, but had way too many electrical gremlins that could not be resolved after a reasonable amount of time or money spent.

Same goes for the 944, 2 GTIs, and a Jetta I owned. All had electrical issues - the kind that go away when you drive into the service bay Each of those cars were also left me stranded.

 

Used to own an A4 myself. Missed the handling but do not miss the countless visits to my Audi indy shop. I visit there so often they recognize my voice over the phone.

 

There is a girl at my school who has 9k on her 06 BMW 325 and one night her headlight was on and her rear parking light but only on the driver side. The passenger side wasnt lighting up at all. And in the front it was the DRL which shouldnt make the parking light light up anyway but it was but once again only on the left side. She turned on the car and after that it was fine. Im not sure whats happened since

My dad used to have a 3 series a long time ago. He said once it hit so many miles every little thing went and since it was german it was a lot to fix. He said one time it was 187 just to get the turn singal to start flashing again. This was also with a mechanic he was friends with and gave him good prices. Also this was awhile back so now who knows how much it would be.

My cousins sold one of there Acura Legends at 240K and still running pretty well. As far as they heard it was still working fine after they sold it. They still have another legend that has about 170K and runs like a champ. I have a friend with a 93 accord that has 140K on it and runs great with no problems.

So basically overall honda makes cars that last longer the BMWs at least with my experience.

 

I traded in a 2000 328Ci that I bought new and put 120K miles on, for a 2006 TL. I also currently own a 2003 X5 that I bought new.
It seems from the above posts that I am in the minority here but I had a pretty good experience overall.
The E46's do have a control arm issue and mine gave out after warranty. I replaced them myself so not a biggie. I had a temp gauge replaced under warranty. Replaced an oxygen sensor. For me these issues were outweighed by the performance and handling. Even with these hiccups, I miss driving the 3. (The manual transmission is probably a factor since my TL is 5AT. I was informed by my boss that I was to purchase an auto tranny. )
My X5 has 50K on it and it's been great. Had a burnt out light bulb in the dash replaced under warranty, but other than that, zero. Nothing.
Although I did consider the new 335, I decided on the TL. I consider these cars to be somewhat different. The TL just had more of what I was looking for. For me the TL is a perfect combination of practicality, luxury and performance. Very happy with the TL!

BTW, ChrisPA's mention of the tire situation (runflats without spare) was also an issue for me. It's actually an issue with a lot of folks if you look on the bimmer forums.

 

Also compare the long-term maintenance prices and insurance costs as well if the money makes a difference.
I never had or considered the BMW (due to spotty Consumer Reports histories and fact that the 3-series was re-done but not on market when I was down to final cars), although my best friend's wife thought $1400 was normal price for brake jobs, w/o replacing discs, for her 3-series. The car also rattled when I drove it, but it was a convertible.

 

From my experience with 2 Acura dealerships, both say they do not provide loaner vehicles for regular maintenance services. So no loaner for oil change.

 

For all the people complaining about handling.....

For the 10K price difference, A set of coilovers will do the trick and you still are saving about 9K over the BMW. Just my though. BMW's are great, but again, dollar for dollar, the TL absolutely kicks the crap out of any German Car.
'
When I was shopping I looked at the following, fully loaded.
TL - 36K sticker
MB C350 6-speed - waaaay too much
330XI - about 46 or 47K IIRC
G35 Sedan - 38 or 39K, RWD in winter was the biggest turn-off, at the time nav was junk, car was bland.
A4 3.2 - Overpriced, too small
IS 250/350 - 250 weak, 350 no stick shift available

Thats the list I started with, and the TL quickly made it to the top for value, features, comfort, reliability, and a whole list of other things that were factors in my decision.

 

Yeah, just putting the comptech rear sway bar on makes a HUGE difference....doesn't even feel like the same car lol

I can't imagine what coilovers would do...

 

I had a BMW 7 Series as a company car a number of years back. To be honest, it was both awesome and crappy at the same time. Take the car out onto the highway and open her up, it's rock steady at speeds that would have your run-of-the-mill Japanese car wobbling across 2 lanes. But having said that, there were just so many problems with the air-conditioning that it wasn't even funny.

I just don't get it...why can't we just get a car with German sports sedan brawn and supremely competent handling, and marry that with Japanese reliability and "everything works as it should"ness.



Footnote: So far, the S4 hasn't let me down, and with all due respect, it just kills the '05 TL I had previously.

 

Well said Sebring.

This topic belongs in Car Talk. Feel free to start this over there.