TZVECL

I have a mild, constant vibration (low amplitude, high frequency) that starts at 52 or so, and continues all the way up. It is a bit worse at 52-55, and then it gets a bit better (but is still there), and then gets a little worse over 84 or so.

Is this the EL-42's? They have been rebalanced, etc. I have some flat spotting as well. But I was unsure if this plain-old at- speed vibration is from them as well.

Thanks!

svtmike

That's the one I've got. My dealer thinks it's the tires, but Acura hasn't issued a decree from on high yet.

Mike

NBP04TL4ME

I really hope Acura/BS get this figured out soon. I should have mine in 30 days or so. My daily driver is a 94 Accord and to this day is vibration free.

jyg tl 3

is your car auto/ MT. have you shifted into
neutral to see if not related to transmission?

scelipt

Read the http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=67438 forum which has alot of theories about your problems

TZVECL

I called ACS, and registered my complaints about my 17tns
(1. Overnight flat spotting
2. Vibration at all speeds, worse at 50-55, worse at 80)

They said they would pass it along to engineering. I asked if they had received other calls, and I was told yes.

I was told that, at this time, this was a "normal characteristic" of the EL42s. I agreed - b/c these tires a such sh*t, this was normal FOR THEM.

But they should NOT be on this car.

jyg tl 3

with el42. I did not notice any flat spotting
, but did notice torque steer. BUT when car was warmed up in neutral slowly reving car up. I noticed and felt vibration through steeting wheel & seats. IT possible that vibration felt by tzvecl is not caused by tires but by engine vibration through drive train, Vibration was prominent from idle through 1500 rpm, dealer had silver quart nav 6mt, but not ready to sign yet. Also body assembly was poor, but rear doors were not flush with body when closed. seems like acura is putting cars together like step- sister of honda, Alslo drove a Honda Coupe, not a consideration,
lttle or no torque steer. but ride was punishing compared to TL and my
BMW. which rides better than both. fit was good but quality of materials were dismall You get what you pay for. TL has good quality in front of cabin, but rear seats, headrests, rear of center console feel very cheap. Also rear visabilty of TLi is poor. bloocked by large bulky headrests and third brake
light, Car was nov build vin 13,-----f

Peters

I hoped I would avoid this problem, but I have felt it today after about 2,900 kms. Its there, subtle, but there. I don't know what it is. I have the 5AT. Your description is consistent. Mine is subtle, but its almost as if the car is slightly...skiddish is the word that comes to mind. I don't know if other's can relate to your description or mine. Some of the road feel and road irregularities seems amplifed to the point where it seems to develop a feeling of vibration as you describe it. Its unnerving but subtle. My '01 did not have this characteristic. Maybe it was a combination of tires, road conditions and weather - I'll check it out again tomorrow.

That Girl

If the vibration occurs at 52- 55 most noticeably ,it can't be the tire's . I have proven this as I am sure any who have this occur at just this speed know ..ANYTIME you hit that 52 mph mark the vibration is very strong wether you have been driving 10 minute's or 2 hour's. So is it that the engine and tranny are not in sinc? The fact that 52 is a weird speed per-say and the car doesn't know if your going to slow down or speed up ,gets confused and just rumbles till you make your next move... hit the gas or slow down to stop ..


Speculation .... But THIS is not the tire's on this one.

TZVECL

So I slap over to SS - I'm in 5th. I downshift to 4th, hoping the vibe goes away (like you said, the thinking being the engine is revving too low in 5th)...guess what? Vibe is still there!

Just like it gets worse in the 80 mph range.

That's why I'm thinking it's the sh*tty EL42's. I mean, the d*mn tires flat spot after 12 hours! Normal tires do not do this! These two issues MUST be related, don't ya think?

Peters

I don't think its the transmission. It feels like its definitely coming from the wheels, suspension set-up. I felt it for the first time today, and only once when the car was new, but I dismissed it. I took it for a drive tonight - and its there, subtle but there.

That Girl

I talked to a tech who was told to loosen the engine mounts ,there are five of them and see if the engine settles per-say ,if this does not fix the problem they are to replace the tranny .

The tires were not the issue with this car's vibration ..so we will see what happens'.

Peters

Whoa, that's some radical screwing around. Having owned Hondas since '85 I can't believe the engineers would screw up with NVH attributes - but now I'm completely unsure.

acuraddict

I totally agree. My car does it at 80 mph and in the 50 mph range, and it doesn't matter if I put the car in neutral, it still vibrates. EL42s are pathetic, but I'm not so sure the Potenza RE030s are so great either. The tires are likely to be the source of it, and lots of people who switched out the stock tires have said the vibration went away!

I'm expecting to be wearing new rubber very soon.

That Girl

Ok the engineers told him to loosen the engine mount's ,rev the engine drive it around for a bit to let the engine settle and then re-tighten the mounts.

fsconsult

The tech should talk with the district rep for Acura. Originally, they were going to replace my tranny, but the District Rep stepped in and stopped the replacement.

What I'm told by the District Rep is that this is normal. Acura has designed the shift points very low to increase gas efficiency. Vibrations is an unfortunate side effect. Occurs in some cars worse than others. (It really occurs anytime engine is throttled while at 1500rpm...any speed...worse at 50-55) Replacing tranny, therefore will have no effect...if u were to believe the District Rep.

Acura Corporate is already aware of this issue. They are claiming since this is a "normal Characteristic" of the TL, there are no fixes planned.

It seems that some people feel the vibrations while others merely hear a slight engine droning noise. Why some feel engine vibrations while others do not is a BIG question that Acura has no answers for. For now, they are just saying that this is a normal characteristic of the TL, therefore they cannot fix.

I have a feeling as more and more Acura's are sold, they will hear more complaints from owners. Maybe Acura will then take some action to correct.

I'm very suprised that they are recommending a tranny replacement, since this can only be authorized by Engineering in California and they are fully aware of this issue???? Maybe they found out something new since my encounters with them. Hope this is the solution!

Peters

Well, certainly in my car, the sensation is evident in SS mode and I had the throttle wide open, and the RPM's high enough to engage the VTECH - I didn't think it had anything to do with the auto...but who knows? To me its a high speed vibration that seems to coming from the tires/suspension set-up.

Time will tell.

rets

At 50MPH, I feel slight vibration with droning noise from the engine. (Maybe someone would think it's the "vibration" based on his definition... everyone will have the different threshold about "vibration"...) If I SS downshift to 4th at 50MPH or shift to neutral, that little vibration is gone. (I don't like EL42s, either, but won't believe tires are the main factor for the whole issue.) So, in my car, I would say the 5th gear's converter engaging at 1400-1800 RPM would shake the car a little bit.

I agree with fsconsult, tranny replacement is not the solution since Acura declares this "vibration" is "normal Characteristic". I'd prefer to keeping my car intact until engineers figure out answers. Sometimes, those Acura dealers do not work hard enough to find the right solutions from engineers. (at least, my dealer always talks something stupid to me in the first day I report the new issue to them. For example, "check engine light ON" is normal if you rev to 5k RPM...)

Let's expect ACS gets tons of calls from now on, and push Acura to figure out this issue ASAP.

That Girl

The second post I made did say that the ENGINEERS' specified that the way this particular case was to be handled. I assume they have checked this car top to bottom ,know the vibration is not the wheels and consider THIS case to be tranny related if adjusting the motor mount's doesn't solve the problem . Maybe this is ONE sure way to see if it is tranny related ,since all else has failed...

Yes time will tell ...........and this is NOT my car ,but YES my car has this same issue.Will update on what happens in this case.

scelipt

My problem started with the 18 inch rims and tires. I had the same problem that all of you are experiencing with the 17 inch rims. This makes for a very curious thing. If both the 17s and 18s are having the same problem, and they are both sets of different rims and tired then how can it be the rims and tires. From what I've read and that is alot, it seems as if though there is no rhyme or reason why some people have this problem and some don't at all.
To make things even more interesting for everyone, my dealer put my 17 inch rims and tires with the bridgestone back on my car. GUESS WHAT? VIBRATION GONE. Now if this s**t isn't to weird I don't know what is. I will say this though, I don't think this is as easy to fix as we all think. Just an opinion.

need4spd

Here is the problem, there are three vibrations that I have read (I think) in the many threads and posts on this:

1. Cold tire flat spotting (happens at sub-50F temps sitting for 4 or more hours).
2. Misc vibrations from improper tire balancing.
3. The 1500rpm vibration (happens whenever the car is not accelerating and around 1400 - 1600rpm).

We keep mixing things up, so you have to read between the lines to figure which one every one is talking about.

Since I have all three, I can figure this out.

bluenoser

need4spd,
I have a theory on the 1500 rpm problem and am seeking more information. What octane gas do you use?

fsconsult

Speaking for myself, I use 93 octane. I've been using this grade for last 4 cars I've had, including 2nd Gen TL. No problems with the 2nd gen TL nor any other cars.

I did find something odd though. I've recently tested additional demo cars from dealers. I've noticed that demo cars with lower mileage did not exhibit vibrations or noticeable engine droning. The higher mileage demo cars did exhibit engine droning but no vibrations.

I know I'm probably fishing, but maybe as the engine breaks in, the engine will start to drone, and further down the line, as more mileage is driven, vibrations will show its ugly face.

When I first took delivery of the car, I had only 10 miles. Didn't really notice the vibrations until I put on additional mileage. Maybe all the early folks who stated that they do not feel vibrations or engine droning, have had very low mileage???

I currently have a little over 6200 miles. Just a theory.

bluenoser

need4spd,
Next time your down to empty, put a couple gallons of 89 octane in it and see how much it vibrates/ drones.
Here's my theory:
To make the engines powerful, Acura pushes the envelope on compression and spark advance.
To make the car meet it's fuel mileage targets, they push the gearing down.
To keep the engine from self detonation (knocking) at low rpms they retard the timing with knock sensors.
All motors run rough at low rpms with too much spark advance.
My theory is that lower octane gas causes the knock sensor to retard the timing enough to let the motor handle low rpms without vibrating/ droning.
In Canada we don't seem to get the 1500 rpm problem, we also don't get gas with octane higher than 91 (and I'm doubtful it's even that high), so I believe there's a pattern here.

Peters

bluenoser,

I agree with you on the droning at 1,500 RPM... it doesn't seem to be an issue, at least with me. There is a "rumble" or sorts through that RPM range and onward but its pleasant. Maybe the fuel in Canada does have something to do with that.

I had an interesting (and good) discussion with Acura Canada today for about 25 minutes. I'll see what the response is when they call me back later in the week. We talked about a number of these issues.

jimthegreek

sounds like a tire issue...

I had the issue... I upgraded to AM 18" wheels and lowered suspension soon after i bought the car and dont have that issue anymore... its not the tranny...

fsconsult

I believe there was someone from Canada that stated that they do experience the 50-55 engine vibration problem.

I believe part of the reasons why some are experiencing vibrations while others are not, seems IMO have to do with a combination of "driving habits" and "mileage driven"

An engine probably should not be at 1500rpm, especially at 50-55 mph. If you are forced to drive at the 1500rpm range (i.e. if u live in a traffic heavy area) for an extended period of time, this may cause the engine to eventually vibrate due to the stress.

Some or many people may never or rarely have to run the engine at 1500rpm for any extended period of time, therefore may not experience the engine vibrations. If the driver does not live in a traffic heavy region.

I live in the DC Metro area, second only to LA in traffic congestion, so I have no choice but to drive in the 1500 rpm range. I think early on, vibration did not occur until prolonged driving at that rpm range.

I really think Acura already knows this, and figured not all will necessarily drive in that rpm range, so this may not effect the majority of drivers. So they already have clasified this problem as an acceptable risk.

I'm wondering if the people experiencing engine vibraitons live in a traffic congested areas?

zima76

i have some vibrate issue coming from Overhead Consol. I have to press is hard in order to stop the noise.
anyway, overall experience is

rets

fsconsult,

My car has the low droning vibration since I picked it up on October, and of course the engine sounds louder now after breaking-in.

That slight vibration in my car will disappear after 60MPH. Your theory seems right, and I believe most of drivers cannot experiece that because they have smooth traffic everyday. Where I live has the similar congestion.

I may try to get 89 gas next time to see if this really reduces the vibration.

need4spd

blunoser, you are correct, 93 octane.

I will try 89 (a few gallons when low) to see if this stops it.

Fsconsult - I did see it on demo cars with only 7 miles on it (I was the first to drive it I guess). Unfortunately, that was after I got my car. Yes, I live in a traffic congested area where I spend a lot of time at 30 and 50mph (1500rpms).

fsconsult

I'll try putting in 89 octane as well. I'll go as far as putting the low octane on at least 2 tank full, to flush out the 93 octane.

WOndering if this may cause any adverse effects/damage to engine components? I doubt 2 tank full will cause damage?

Anyway, Rets, Need4Speed...can you guys post your results...did it help,stay the same etc. I'll post my results as well.

THANKS!

bluenoser....r u also Golf Nut?

jyg tl 3

after is warm from idle speed until 1500 rpm, I noticed thia on 6mt with 29 miles on it, maybe you are all getting engine vibration in addition to or independant of the tranny shifting to od to early.

rets

Yes, jyg tl 3, I do think of this theory. The vibration is from the early engagement to 5th gear's Torque Converter, which gives you the good gas efficiency and low emission. (EL42s are bad, but they're not related to my slight vibration between 50-60 MPH.)


To fsconsult: I'll have the result posted. My car has full tank of 93 and gonna to have new oil changed this Friday. I should get some outcome over the weekend.

need4spd

I will try also, and post then, I am just under full, so it will take some time.

No adverse effects, the computer just retards the timming as indicated, just don't push the car hard and it will be even safer.

fsconsult

THANKS!

bluenoser

fsconsult,
Sadly yes, I am golfnut...my other passion.

need4spd

I put 12.2 gallons of 89 Octane in yesterday (the fuel warning light came on a little early I would say, with 4.9 gallons left). The average octane should be about 90 with the mix of 93 in it.

Anyhow, no noticible difference in the vibration in limited testing, will post more later.

After thinking about it, the only time the engine will probably retard timming is under hard acceleration, and under our vibration conditions, there is minimal load on it (steady 50mph), but a few should try it and post.

RJC RSX

i'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way with octane ratings, e.g. 5g 87 + 5g 89 != 10g 88

need4spd

That is the way the Sunoco pumps used to work, one was 94, one 93, one 89, and one 87. I am not sure about what they did for the 89, but I know from talking to a station owner a while back, that to get 93 in addition to 94, the pump mixed the gas so they did not have to install an extra tank to get four grades of fuel.

rets

I also tried three full tanks of 87... but no significant vibration on the decrease. Bad... I have 93 again now.

Does gasoline in Canada have any additional special additive inside?

Out of curiosity, do most of drivers in Canada have no vibration issue at all?


Thanks...

(We believe most of vibration coming from EL42s, but my car has some subtle vibration at 5 gear during 50-55 MPH & 1400-1800 RPM. Shifting to neutral or 4th will get rid of this issue... that's why I'm thinking of the engine, tranny, and GAS.)