Advice for my first ATF change
08-15-2010, 03:10 PM
#1
Advice for my first ATF change
I'm new to car and TL is my first car. My father's friend is a technician, he told me that I will have to change my ATF about 50k mileages (It's 48970 already). I read some posts about the bad of Z1 fluid so I want to use the other ATF.I read the thread about the racing ATF of Inaccurate. It's interesting but fill me with full of questions 
. I don't really understand about the method 3x3. What should I do really to change to the RedLine Type F ? Do I mix it with the other ATF like the RedLine D4 or I will do pure ? My TL is still stock and I have AT 
.
. I don't really understand about the method 3x3. What should I do really to change to the RedLine Type F ? Do I mix it with the other ATF like the RedLine D4 or I will do pure ? My TL is still stock and I have AT .
08-15-2010, 03:36 PM
#3
you should go with redline df atf, as i have read threads on this forum saying that it will extend tranny life. make sure that you do a 3x3 as you are changing the fluid from the honda z1 stuff and you do not want to mix them.
a 3x3 is basically dumping out three quarts of tranny fluid and filling it with three more. then starting the car and cycling through all the gears and doing this three times.
a 3x3 is basically dumping out three quarts of tranny fluid and filling it with three more. then starting the car and cycling through all the gears and doing this three times.
08-15-2010, 04:19 PM
#4
Drifting
iTrader: (13)
The best thing about this car is how easy it is to work on. OP, I have done my ATF a couple of times--the first was a simple 1X3 (a single drain and fill with 3 quarts). I used the Honda Z1 fluid. I was concerned because at 30K my fluid was dark brown and smelled burnt. After the change, the fluid seemed a bit redder, but nothing like new fluid should look, so I did some more research. At the time, IHateCars had just posted about the 3rd-4th gear switches and how replacing them makes good preventative sense. He had also posted about Redline D4 fluid and how much better it is than Z1. I also found a post on changing the ATF filter. So, at about 50K I tackled all three of these in a single session. The D4 is very impressive in how much more smoothly the trans shifts now. I don't know that it will extend the life, but any regular maintenance should extend the life of any part. The switches did not give that much of an improvement, but it's more a peace of mind type thing with those. The filter was pretty dark when I pulled it out, but I think they all get dark when saturated.
The one thing I still want to do is install an ATF cooler (there is another DIY for this on this site). Heat is the biggest threat to any transmission, IMO. Anything you can do to keep it cool will help.
Do some thorough research---arm yourself with information and you can do anything.
Good luck!
The one thing I still want to do is install an ATF cooler (there is another DIY for this on this site). Heat is the biggest threat to any transmission, IMO. Anything you can do to keep it cool will help.
Do some thorough research---arm yourself with information and you can do anything.
Good luck!
08-15-2010, 04:25 PM
#5
Redline fluids are ester based, that alone will result in a drop in trans tempratures. Honda trannys built up heat, in large part, due to FWD and the way Honda utilizes them. Honda thinks it's a good idea to have a long shift. A long shift is really nothing more than a slip, that is softened by friction modifiers. If you can make the shifts quicker, it will reduce the friction, thus create less heat.
Where Z1 falls down, besides tons of friction modifiers, is the base stock it's formulated with really isn't very good at handling the heat. That is a major part of the reason a lot of Honda trannys start shifting like crap within 15-20k miles. Z1 just isn't intended for long service intervals, especially in this transmission, IMO.
You can use Z1 if you want, but I'd change it every 20k miles. I use Redline D4 in mine, works perfectly.
Where Z1 falls down, besides tons of friction modifiers, is the base stock it's formulated with really isn't very good at handling the heat. That is a major part of the reason a lot of Honda trannys start shifting like crap within 15-20k miles. Z1 just isn't intended for long service intervals, especially in this transmission, IMO.
You can use Z1 if you want, but I'd change it every 20k miles. I use Redline D4 in mine, works perfectly.
08-15-2010, 04:46 PM
#6
Redline fluids are ester based, that alone will result in a drop in trans tempratures. Honda trannys built up heat, in large part, due to FWD and the way Honda utilizes them. Honda thinks it's a good idea to have a long shift. A long shift is really nothing more than a slip, that is softened by friction modifiers. If you can make the shifts quicker, it will reduce the friction, thus create less heat.
Where Z1 falls down, besides tons of friction modifiers, is the base stock it's formulated with really isn't very good at handling the heat. That is a major part of the reason a lot of Honda trannys start shifting like crap within 15-20k miles. Z1 just isn't intended for long service intervals, especially in this transmission, IMO.
You can use Z1 if you want, but I'd change it every 20k miles. I use Redline D4 in mine, works perfectly.
Where Z1 falls down, besides tons of friction modifiers, is the base stock it's formulated with really isn't very good at handling the heat. That is a major part of the reason a lot of Honda trannys start shifting like crap within 15-20k miles. Z1 just isn't intended for long service intervals, especially in this transmission, IMO.
You can use Z1 if you want, but I'd change it every 20k miles. I use Redline D4 in mine, works perfectly.
08-15-2010, 07:29 PM
#7
Team Owner
If you stick with Z1, I recommnend a 1x3 change with each oil change.
If you go to Redline, a very conservative interval would be a 1x3 every 20,000+ miles. You should be able to get away with a 100K interval on Redline but I'm very conservative.
I highly recommend their typeF fluid as this will greatly reduce clutch wear and temps. The ester base oil will reduce hard part wear.
Where you might be confused is some people mix the Redline oils to get the desired viscosity. The type F fluid is a little thicker than the Z1 or D4. It's not mandatory that you mix it but it can give peace of mind. To get close to the factory viscosity on a 3x3 you would do 2 drains with the "racing type F" and 1 drain with the lightweight racing fluid to thin it out. If you plan on spacing the changes out such as doing a 1x3 once a month until you've done the 3x3 I would do the first two with the regular racing type F and the last one with the lightweight stuff.
Again, running pure racing type F will not hurt a thing. It's a 10cSt viscosity fluid and Z1 is about 7cSt with both at 210 degrees F. To put it in perspective if your trans cooled off to 195, the Z1 would be 10cSt and trans temps fluctuate a lot so it won't hurt. The lightweight racing is 4.9cSt. I honestly like a little more viscosity because it will usually protect hard parts better. If you run it in freezing temps, I recommend doing one drain and fill with the lightweight stuff. The higher operating viscosity is fine. It's the cold start viscosity that can be a minor issue.
If you go to Redline, a very conservative interval would be a 1x3 every 20,000+ miles. You should be able to get away with a 100K interval on Redline but I'm very conservative.
I highly recommend their typeF fluid as this will greatly reduce clutch wear and temps. The ester base oil will reduce hard part wear.
Where you might be confused is some people mix the Redline oils to get the desired viscosity. The type F fluid is a little thicker than the Z1 or D4. It's not mandatory that you mix it but it can give peace of mind. To get close to the factory viscosity on a 3x3 you would do 2 drains with the "racing type F" and 1 drain with the lightweight racing fluid to thin it out. If you plan on spacing the changes out such as doing a 1x3 once a month until you've done the 3x3 I would do the first two with the regular racing type F and the last one with the lightweight stuff.
Again, running pure racing type F will not hurt a thing. It's a 10cSt viscosity fluid and Z1 is about 7cSt with both at 210 degrees F. To put it in perspective if your trans cooled off to 195, the Z1 would be 10cSt and trans temps fluctuate a lot so it won't hurt. The lightweight racing is 4.9cSt. I honestly like a little more viscosity because it will usually protect hard parts better. If you run it in freezing temps, I recommend doing one drain and fill with the lightweight stuff. The higher operating viscosity is fine. It's the cold start viscosity that can be a minor issue.
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08-15-2010, 07:47 PM
#8
08-15-2010, 08:26 PM
#9
I think on the Z1 depends on how you drive the vehicle. Apparently, mine did not look bad being I have 62,000 miles. I checked it after I had bought the vehicle with 61,620 almost 2 weeks ago. The transmission fluid has been changed twice with only 1 drain/fill and the fluid is still red. I am planning on changing it out and doing a complete flush with filter replacement to get that fresh pinkish red color back. Hopefully, the tranny will last well into the 200k
08-15-2010, 09:27 PM
#10
If you stick with Z1, I recommnend a 1x3 change with each oil change.
If you go to Redline, a very conservative interval would be a 1x3 every 20,000+ miles. You should be able to get away with a 100K interval on Redline but I'm very conservative.
I highly recommend their typeF fluid as this will greatly reduce clutch wear and temps. The ester base oil will reduce hard part wear.
Where you might be confused is some people mix the Redline oils to get the desired viscosity. The type F fluid is a little thicker than the Z1 or D4. It's not mandatory that you mix it but it can give peace of mind. To get close to the factory viscosity on a 3x3 you would do 2 drains with the "racing type F" and 1 drain with the lightweight racing fluid to thin it out. If you plan on spacing the changes out such as doing a 1x3 once a month until you've done the 3x3 I would do the first two with the regular racing type F and the last one with the lightweight stuff.
Again, running pure racing type F will not hurt a thing. It's a 10cSt viscosity fluid and Z1 is about 7cSt with both at 210 degrees F. To put it in perspective if your trans cooled off to 195, the Z1 would be 10cSt and trans temps fluctuate a lot so it won't hurt. The lightweight racing is 4.9cSt. I honestly like a little more viscosity because it will usually protect hard parts better. If you run it in freezing temps, I recommend doing one drain and fill with the lightweight stuff. The higher operating viscosity is fine. It's the cold start viscosity that can be a minor issue.
If you go to Redline, a very conservative interval would be a 1x3 every 20,000+ miles. You should be able to get away with a 100K interval on Redline but I'm very conservative.
I highly recommend their typeF fluid as this will greatly reduce clutch wear and temps. The ester base oil will reduce hard part wear.
Where you might be confused is some people mix the Redline oils to get the desired viscosity. The type F fluid is a little thicker than the Z1 or D4. It's not mandatory that you mix it but it can give peace of mind. To get close to the factory viscosity on a 3x3 you would do 2 drains with the "racing type F" and 1 drain with the lightweight racing fluid to thin it out. If you plan on spacing the changes out such as doing a 1x3 once a month until you've done the 3x3 I would do the first two with the regular racing type F and the last one with the lightweight stuff.
Again, running pure racing type F will not hurt a thing. It's a 10cSt viscosity fluid and Z1 is about 7cSt with both at 210 degrees F. To put it in perspective if your trans cooled off to 195, the Z1 would be 10cSt and trans temps fluctuate a lot so it won't hurt. The lightweight racing is 4.9cSt. I honestly like a little more viscosity because it will usually protect hard parts better. If you run it in freezing temps, I recommend doing one drain and fill with the lightweight stuff. The higher operating viscosity is fine. It's the cold start viscosity that can be a minor issue.
Last edited by boyhamdzui; 08-15-2010 at 09:31 PM.
08-15-2010, 10:15 PM
#11
Team Owner
I think on the Z1 depends on how you drive the vehicle. Apparently, mine did not look bad being I have 62,000 miles. I checked it after I had bought the vehicle with 61,620 almost 2 weeks ago. The transmission fluid has been changed twice with only 1 drain/fill and the fluid is still red. I am planning on changing it out and doing a complete flush with filter replacement to get that fresh pinkish red color back. Hopefully, the tranny will last well into the 200k
08-15-2010, 10:17 PM
#12
Team Owner
I live in Houston. The lowest temps I ever had is -4 C only last for 3-4 days in the winter so I think I will be fine with the pure Type F. I will drive this car for long time so I want to keep its health. Another thing I'm confuse is my father's friend told me to do 3 quart each time. When do 3x3 I think it suppose to be 9 why it's up to 12.
08-21-2010, 11:41 PM
#16
There is no FM in Racing ATF. If I do 3x3 and after 20k miles do 1x3, There will be the time when there is too little FM or no more FM so I don't know what will be like that time.I still am researching .But IHC did give me a really good information.
Last edited by boyhamdzui; 08-21-2010 at 11:49 PM.
08-22-2010, 12:27 AM
#18
Team Owner
Having no FM is fine. The worst thing with having too little would be too firm of shifts. Having too much FM like factory Z1 causes excessive wear. Since the TL uses a DBW system, the shift quality between D4 and Racing is the same. You don't actually feel the shifts, they just happen quicker. It's really a win-win situation with the racing. There is no downside.
08-22-2010, 12:44 AM
#19
Since I got the stock car and I do not intend to have turbo.I still consider should I use D4 or Racing Type F.This is the useful post I read this evening https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764322 
08-22-2010, 01:01 AM
#20
Team Owner
Since I got the stock car and I do not intend to have turbo.I still consider should I use D4 or Racing Type F.This is the useful post I read this evening https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764322
However, it doesn't matter if you're making 100hp or 800hp, a quicker shift equals less wear. The racing fluid will make a bone stock 5at last longer.
08-22-2010, 01:47 AM
#21
Technically it would be best if you're changing the brand of fluid to do 12 quarts to make sure every ounce of "previous oil/brand" is gone. If I'm not mistaken, the transmission holds about 9.xxx amounts of fluid, so you'll be short anyways and have the old fluid still in there with the new.
08-22-2010, 04:03 AM
#23
Team Owner
I'm out of this one. Don't have the energy anymore.
08-22-2010, 09:42 AM
#24
I did a 4x3 when I changed mine over to D4, I wanted as much of the Z1 out of there as I could. Plus, I had 12 quarts anyway since I ordered a case.
To the OP, just pick one. D4 or the racing version will be fine, both are vast upgrades over shitty Z1.
To the OP, just pick one. D4 or the racing version will be fine, both are vast upgrades over shitty Z1.
08-22-2010, 09:42 AM
#25
I order 6 quarts of Type F last night . After 2 changes I will see if I want the last with the light weight ATF or not then order late . Like IHC said I think the Type F will work fine.They did have a post for discussing about the Racing fluid .
08-30-2010, 03:41 PM
#27
Drifting
iTrader: (13)
That is complete bullshit!
It would be like saying putting synthetic motor oil in the engine voids the warranty.
#1 - Use whatever fluid you want, as long as it is certified for use in motor vehicles in the USDM
#2 - Find another dealer. I would not trust those clowns again - EVER!!
It would be like saying putting synthetic motor oil in the engine voids the warranty.
#1 - Use whatever fluid you want, as long as it is certified for use in motor vehicles in the USDM
#2 - Find another dealer. I would not trust those clowns again - EVER!!
08-31-2010, 10:10 AM
#29
i am not sure how true that is, because warranty cannot be voided if you do your maintenance from an indy shop. what guarantee is there that an indy shop will use honda z1?
09-03-2010, 03:32 PM
#30
Bump!
Since Redline D4 or Racing isn't in stores around here...is there an alternative thats the same? I've seen a few people talk about Amsoil and how its basically the same w/o FM's but just wondering. I'd like to tackle this tonight or this weekend but I want to make sure I do it correctly! I'll just do a drain and fill for now so 3 qts right??
Also...this is the process correct?
1. Take off ATF Fill Cap under filter box
2. Remove ATF drain plug
3. Drain out everything (should be around 3 qts?)
- use a milk carton with 3qts marked so you know how much came out..therefore giving you the amount to put back in
4. Plug it back up
5. Slowly put the new ATF in the fill cap using a long funnel
6. Put ATF Fill Cap back on and take her for a spin
Since Redline D4 or Racing isn't in stores around here...is there an alternative thats the same? I've seen a few people talk about Amsoil and how its basically the same w/o FM's but just wondering. I'd like to tackle this tonight or this weekend but I want to make sure I do it correctly! I'll just do a drain and fill for now so 3 qts right??
Also...this is the process correct?
1. Take off ATF Fill Cap under filter box
2. Remove ATF drain plug
3. Drain out everything (should be around 3 qts?)
- use a milk carton with 3qts marked so you know how much came out..therefore giving you the amount to put back in
4. Plug it back up
5. Slowly put the new ATF in the fill cap using a long funnel
6. Put ATF Fill Cap back on and take her for a spin
09-03-2010, 04:37 PM
#31
Team Owner
Bump!
Since Redline D4 or Racing isn't in stores around here...is there an alternative thats the same? I've seen a few people talk about Amsoil and how its basically the same w/o FM's but just wondering. I'd like to tackle this tonight or this weekend but I want to make sure I do it correctly! I'll just do a drain and fill for now so 3 qts right??
Also...this is the process correct?
1. Take off ATF Fill Cap under filter box
2. Remove ATF drain plug
3. Drain out everything (should be around 3 qts?)
- use a milk carton with 3qts marked so you know how much came out..therefore giving you the amount to put back in
4. Plug it back up
5. Slowly put the new ATF in the fill cap using a long funnel
6. Put ATF Fill Cap back on and take her for a spin
Since Redline D4 or Racing isn't in stores around here...is there an alternative thats the same? I've seen a few people talk about Amsoil and how its basically the same w/o FM's but just wondering. I'd like to tackle this tonight or this weekend but I want to make sure I do it correctly! I'll just do a drain and fill for now so 3 qts right??
Also...this is the process correct?
1. Take off ATF Fill Cap under filter box
2. Remove ATF drain plug
3. Drain out everything (should be around 3 qts?)
- use a milk carton with 3qts marked so you know how much came out..therefore giving you the amount to put back in
4. Plug it back up
5. Slowly put the new ATF in the fill cap using a long funnel
6. Put ATF Fill Cap back on and take her for a spin
See if there's a Mobil One DexIII replacement or even better, a Mobil One "racing" or "type F" or something of that nature.
09-03-2010, 08:51 PM
#32
Just order the Redline. One of the benefits is Redline is group V basestock, which handles the heat much better, and heat is an issue with these trannys being FWD and the car is heavy for it's size.
09-03-2010, 09:45 PM
#33
Safety Car
TL-Noob,
If you want to do it correctly, order the Redline. I recommend 2 quarts RedLine Racing ATF (PN# 30304) and 1 quart RedLine Lightweight Racing ATF (PN# 30314) per every refill.
09-08-2010, 05:49 PM
#34
I can't do the 3x3 by myself so I decide to go to Midas and ask them to do it.I just went to Midas today.They mention to me about doing flush is a good and quick way to take all the ATF out and in. What do you think ? Should I do flush for my car ? And how much ATF need if I decide to do flush ? ( My car has 50k miles )
Last edited by boyhamdzui; 09-08-2010 at 05:51 PM.
09-08-2010, 07:32 PM
#36
08 MDX, 04 TL (sold)
iTrader: (1)
How many miles are on the car. Many people advise against a flush if your car has a lot of miles (more than 60k??). My dealer performs flushes and my service adviser even recommended against it for cars with higher miles.
You should be able to ask Midas (or similar shop) to do the 3x3 for you. It is essential just 3 drain and fills with some driving through all the gears in between each drain and fill.
You should be able to ask Midas (or similar shop) to do the 3x3 for you. It is essential just 3 drain and fills with some driving through all the gears in between each drain and fill.
09-08-2010, 08:35 PM
#37
How many miles are on the car. Many people advise against a flush if your car has a lot of miles (more than 60k??). My dealer performs flushes and my service adviser even recommended against it for cars with higher miles.
You should be able to ask Midas (or similar shop) to do the 3x3 for you. It is essential just 3 drain and fills with some driving through all the gears in between each drain and fill.
You should be able to ask Midas (or similar shop) to do the 3x3 for you. It is essential just 3 drain and fills with some driving through all the gears in between each drain and fill.
.Actually I want to do it myself. It looks easy but unfortunately I don't have enough equipment and I live in apartment (no garage).
Last edited by boyhamdzui; 09-08-2010 at 08:40 PM.
09-08-2010, 09:07 PM
#38
Drifting
iTrader: (13)
Check the Regional section for someone in your area who may be able to help. Seriously, if you can hook up with another member who has done this before, you can be done in a couple of hours and learn about your car while you're at it!
Plus, you will save the most amount of money possible by doing it yourself.
Plus, you will save the most amount of money possible by doing it yourself.
09-08-2010, 11:39 PM
#39
Safety Car
I have seen threads on Acurazine of this exact thing. Ain't making it up. "I got a quicky flush and now my trans won't work".
If you are not able to do it yourself, please wait. Your trans is better off if you leave it alone versus a quicky flush.
Time to change transmission fluid? (click here)
American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using aftermarket trans flush systems (click here)
Flush Systems: A Big Taboo (see page 3 of 4) (click here)
