Tripnbeats

Id rather have a poor mans BMW than something made by ford... and I have driven them (mazdas) and dont think the quality quite compares to hondas..... lexus adds more sound proof to their cars......i have 2 lexus' in my family (both GS) as well and even the people who drive those tell me their next cars are acura's.... i dont say or do anything to hype the car up... one person says its the tightness in handling another says its the comfort.....i personally never liked toyota or mazda they dont appeal to me... i dont think they ever will either...and if u ask me mazdas trying to come up right behind acura..... M/T....fwd.....almost same body stance... wheel base....hmmmm honda kinda sets standards

XxAfG786xX

haha yea traffic in nothern va does suck ass...every freaking day at 3 pm it starts!!!

OKNBPTL

I'm not a Ford fan either, and I realize they are corporate cousins, but I will say that Mazda has been emphasizing sporty handling, 'sports sedan'-type cars for quite some time now. If you are talking about Acura, yes, they have set the standard for a lower-cost 'sports sedan' for a long time (going back to the original Legend), but certainly not under the Honda brand - they are like Japanese Buicks (or were up until not very long ago).

My enthusiasm for Mazdas started the first time I went to one of their 'Rev It Up' driving events, where they actually encourage you to thrash their cars around on mini-autocross courses set up in large parking lots. That says a lot about a manufacturer and their commitment to enthusiast drivers, and really made me a believer in at least their concept of sport tuning (and I've been a fan of their styling for quite some time - more than I can say for Honda/Acura, who are very hit-and-miss on styling imho).

My main point is - even if Acura abandons the MT/enthusiast driver with their non-S-type TL's, Mazda has pretty much made their bones on catering to that type of driver (much like BMW does, at a higher price point). I doubt you will ever see them sell a compact, sedan or 'sports' car without offering MT as an option.

rb1

Or, you have a true "poor man's BMW" and get a German-engineered VW .

OKNBPTL

True, VW also makes an awesome handling car and had not (yet) abandoned the MT enthusiast. I absolutely love the way they drive, but my luck hasn't been too good with them reliability-wise. But they're a great choice if you have a good dealer and/or mechanic!

S PAW 1

I traded my '05 6MT for an '07 TL-S AT recently. I don't regret it.
>Reduces tendency for "road rage"
>I have a car that my wife can drive should something happen to me
>I don't get as stressed if heavy traffic encountered
Lastly, I wanted a a car that I could keep for many years. There is a strong tendency for the sport luxury segment to move to the paddle shift or CVT. They are more efficient than ever, and getting more so.
IMO, within 5 years you won't see a true manual transmission available from ANYONE, with resultant loss of resale value on used ones. People will have the choice of having their cake, AND eating it on new cars. Again, IMO and

S PAW 1

[QUOTE=Tripnbeats]I personally love the fact that they give u a manual option on this car..... the control this car offers in the snow...the rain....the dry weather can out maneuver a lot of other cars

Control????????
Let's see, we have Vehicle Stability Assist, anti-lock braking, traction control, torque steer reduction programmed in to the ECU, Electronic brake force distribution (EBD), and brake assist all built into the '07 TL and TL-S.
What are YOU really controlling any more?

007TL-S

the limitation's of "RWD" in the midwest , Try winter time ! ....is a death wish!......the majority , specificly baby boomer's and late 30-40 year's old, could care less about a RWD manual! (competitive driving or not!) they'd buy Porcshe's and Bimmer's in the pursuit of Motorsport driving pleasures!!

Tripnbeats

U know not for nothing I would get an auto type s to see how the tranny is on that they said its more refined....to me that means problems...but id like to see anyway.....they stuck to the manual box they had in all the tl's for the tl-s and only made a mod to the auto...i dunno but yea i see where u were going with it now OKNBP

S PAW 1

According to my dealership technician, the AT is the same one they have been using in the RL for many tried and true years now. MUCH stronger innards.
This is the tech., not a salesman...so I have a tendency to believe him.

Tripnbeats

And the tech that works on my car said check out the inside workings of it in the service manuals and they are totally different on the inside.... they have very very specific things that make it a lil stronger "supposedly" so they probably did thir homework on whatever kept breaking in the AUTO 04-06 and kinda made some upgrades.......and then if u want u can even see the inner workings at acuraoemparts.com.... when u click on AT section for 07types itll show u '07 AT parts that have been changed.....

Tripnbeats

I highly doubt they'd use an RL A/T that cant keep up with the power of the tl engine.....its a very relaxed grandpa transmission "smoootttthhh" maybe the case is from RL's

Tripnbeats

HERE ya go
=)

AT ACCUMULATOR BODY ('07)
AT ATF PIPE ('07)
AT CLUTCH (2ND) ('07)
AT CLUTCH (3RD) ('07)
AT CLUTCH (4TH-5TH) ('07)
AT CLUTCH (LOW) ('07)
AT COUNTERSHAFT ('07)
AT DIFFERENTIAL ('07)
AT MAIN VALVE BODY ('07)
AT MAINSHAFT ('07)
AT REGULATOR BODY ('07)
AT SECONDARY BODY ('07)
AT SECONDARY SHAFT ('07)
AT SENSOR-SOLENOID ('07)
AT SHIFT FORK ('07)
AT THIRD SHAFT ('07)
AT TORQUE CONVERTER CASE ('07)
AT TRANSMISSION CASE ('07)

S PAW 1

The RL does, and always has, generated MORE hp than the TL.
Unfortunately, the public wants smooth shifting transmissions, which create more heat..........which is bad for durability.

SilverJ

i see some chatter here about paddle shifters being the same as manual with clutch...
I drove my wifes RDX---used her paddle shifters. Sorry----no where near the same experience. Shifting a manual should require a *little* skill...not just the flick of a button.
I dunno...hard to explain---I guess I am one of the 2% of people on this planet that will alway prefer a manula shift.

Mike 06 TL

I agree. A standard auto with paddle shifters is no different than an auto with sportshift on the shifter, just more convenient. Now, if you look at the new DSG tranny from VW that is a different story. No torque converter so it feels just like a manual. Just don't have to work a clutch pedal. Pretty cool.

Tripnbeats

I agree Mike the dsg is a wicked ass transmission my boy just got the new GTI and that lil thing hauls ass

black label

Your logic for explaining why a manual trans doesn't benefit a front drive car can be used to explain why it's useless on a rear drive car as well. If holding a gear can be done on a front drive car with a sport shift, it also could be done on a rear drive car as well.

The purpose of a manual transmission is simple, to give the driver complete control over the gear selection/RPM range they choose to operate in and give them a more direct feel of the car.

Mazekid15

Responding to other posts too.....
A TL looking Ricey? Makes No sense. Its funny how some say that when every person older or younger has told me how "classy" my car looks. The rims ar Hot on the black, I havent really seen any others in person with the same rims besides the Electron blue (which I didnt like) but the rims in general are pretty nice. For 38G's how much I paid, this car is worth every dollar. Compared to the is350 n 335i your saving 5 to 10 thous dollars. The only bash I can honestly say that is beat about my TL S and others, is the FWD. Still, Smoothness in this car is unbelievable. Touch Screen, every option under the sun, looks, good handling, and descent speed, and all the hot girls in there little scions and RSX/TSX keep looking over at the Big Dog, that even makes you feel better
FInally, the TL Type S should not be offered in Automatic. If your going to have more HP and a way more sportier look then the regular TL, why woud you even want automatic. Everytime I look in a high performance car and see an automatic shifter, I disappointly put my head down and lose respect for the car. Fwd Rwd AWD, why wouldnt it be a manual Trans...So what if it lags a little, if you want true performance dont buy a TL. THis car is for HOT LOOKS, SMooth Riding, and Descent speed. I had a 12 second 06 Subaru Legacy turbo AWD way faster, lighter, and better handling, and I still think the TL is wayyy hotter than that. FWD and AWD is better than RWD in New Jersey. Thats the reality. Dont worry in 2009 AWD plus 5 thousand dollars more will be offered on the New TL

Tripnbeats

thank u maze kid!!!

vincethe1

In a way you never grew up, sorry to say but you are trying to sound like a professional and making a fool of yourself....your argument makes no sence because you can do the same thing with the sequential as u can do with the manual, because you can tell it in what gear stay on.

Basically you're just another person that thinks that fwd is worthless and rwd is the best, because you do not know any better...the reason of driving a manual is primarily the clutch, nothing else, if there was no clutch there is way faster and more advanced transmissions than a simple manual. The clutch is there to control your launches however you would like them, to save weight, and to gain fuel economy and some performance figures over standard automatics...so there is just as good of a point having a manual in a fwd as a rwd, just cuz u think rwd is for drifting that's your own way of viewing it, but saying it's useless is completely ignorant and false.

oh, and i forgot, if traffic is your manual issue, you obviously do not understand the beuty of manual transmission, idk how much traffic virginia can have, but i live in vegas and although i hate traffic, the manual is the only thing that cheers me up while i'm in it.....traffic is a pathetic excuse of not driving a manual, eather you're no entthusiast, or you are a lazy non-enthusiast as well...that's it really

mark-e-mark

I love manual tranys because the driving experience is so much more engaging. One particular reason I liked the MT/TL is the close pedals for heel-and-toe. There's just something satisfying about blipping the motor to match revs on a turn while you trim speed and down shift at the same time you turn the wheel.

Automatics are boring, making the task of driving a chore when it can be quite enjoyable. The availability of a manual tranny is the first buying consideration I make.

Shalooby

I've read your post three times in a row now and still don't know what your trying to say. Were you trying to make a point or were you just trying to insult me?

First you say I'm not making any sense but then you state the same thing I said in my first post. Go read it again, carefully. I also never said front wheel drive was worthless or that rwd was the best, but you say I did because I don't know any better? When did we meet that you got to know me so well?

I don't take kindly to being insulted, being told I'm not a enthusiast, and that I've got pathetic excuses for making choices. I thought about describing your inability to write complete sentences and words, the spelling errors, puncation, and fragmented thoughts in an attempt to retaliate but you've already done quite a fine job of doing it yourself.

Cheers.

Vanilla_Gorilla

Agreed - I also think that the Type-S should only come with the manual trans. I also agree that 'traffic' is a poor excuse to not getting the Manual trans.

vincethe1

If you did not understand what i was trying to say, i will restate it.

you said a manual transmission in a fwd car is useless, and your reason for that is that in a rwd you can hold it in a gear while you control the car with the gas...aka drift.

then you stated that a sequential automatic would do a fine job in a fwd, but what makes it so different in a rwd, you can still hold the gear in the automatic so in that sence, manual is not an advantage.

the point that i was trying to make (and no i was not trying to insult you but i am frankly tired of people that bash fwds for no good reason just because they don't like them) is that your reason for having manual transmission in a rwd was the same as having a sequential automatic in a rwd, it would make no difference.

i am sorry if you read it 3 times and misunderstood, but i was not the only 1 to say that, if you look a few posts up somebody actually said the same thing as me.

that being said, it's not that i don't know how to write properly it's just that i could care less because this is not an english class and people over here use all types of abbriviations and slang words, and it does not matter if it's spelled right because that's most likely a typo....

Shalooby

This has turned into a manual vs auto and fwd vs rwd debate. That's not what I was writing about. Did you miss the "in regard to competitive driving" part of that first sentence? You make it sound as though I'm saying any fwd car with a manual gearbox is stupid. I'm not.

If you read my first post it states that manual + fwd in competitive (and not just "drifting") driving makes no sense in that it has many shortcomings when compared to a manual + rwd car. That's it.
I'm not opposed to fwd or manual gearbox vehicles. Driving a car with a manual transmission obviously requires much more involvement than a automatic. Some people want that. I don't - not anymore. I bought the TL for what it is. A touring luxury (that's the TL part) four door sedan. I've had plenty of manual vehicles, both fwd and rwd and enjoy the hands on approach to operating them.

Rear wheel drive, whether it's a manual or automatic, has many advantages over fwd in competive racing. Thats it.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

weren't you the one wanting to see a good controversy and light the fire?

vincethe1

you enjoy it and yet you are annyod by it for every day drivin....don't make much sence to me. There are shortcommings to a fwd in "competitive" driving, but they are not as big as you beleive they are, and as far as contorlling the car with the gas, you could do the same in a fwd except with regulation of understeer and not oversteer like in a rwd...not that it's the same thing, it's not but you are still controlling the car not with the wheel alone but with the gass too.

point is that i don't care what ppl think the tl is and is not, and weather it should be an automatic or a manual....the reason behind the 6mt tl is simple...a lot more fun and involving to drive, quite a bit faster over the automatic tl, and it's also lighter...so there are the advantages of getting manual tl, it's not useless.

just cuz you prefer the automatic that is ur own prefecence, but i can only see 3 advantages of an auto vs a manual vs a lot more vise versa.

1 is that it's good 4 lazy ppl
2 that u don't gotta worry of wearing a clutch and having to py to replace it
3 it shifts a little faster

vs the manual

1 it's faster (not only cuz of it's direct connection from engine to wheels, but also cuz it has 1 more gar and they are shorter)
2 it's lighter
3 it's more contorl/fun to drive
4 it's usually better on gas
5 not to mention the extra stuff that came with the tl for free over the automatic (4-piston brembos, lsd, stiffer suspension, tq contorl module)

things like that are advantages of m/t, not just trying to contorl the gar with gas in a race which you could also do in an automatic nowadays......the advantages of m/t over a/t are basicaly the same regardless of fwd or rwd, now that rwd has advantages on the track that's a totally different story, a rwd automatic or a rwd manual would have the same advantages over a fwd, mt does not give rwd a bigger advantage then it gives to fwd.

Shalooby

You seem fixated by trying to find inconsistencies in what I have written in that you begin by commenting on what you describe is a contradiction. Yes, I enjoy the hands-on requirements of a manual gearbox - but not all the time. I guess that's just hard for you to understand.
While I'm here, what the hell does "regulation of understeer" mean. Sounds like a politician trying to simply say "slow down". And again you seem to know me better than I know myself because you know what I believe better than I do?
.
.
.
If you don't care what people think the TL is or is not then why do you feel the need to defend it so vigorously? I never said the TL with a manual transmission is useless. I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of people driving them every day who do so in a non-competitive manner and I'm glad this car comes with the option of choosing a manual transmission.
.
.
.
^^^^ I have no idea what you mean by this. ^^^^


Your making a huge generalization that all people who drive cars with automatic transmissions are lazy. I wont interpret that as an indirect insult but your getting close.
.
.
.
I agree with all of that.

You finish with the most confusing statement of all. You talk repeatedly about the advantages of manual transmissions but then you say the advantages of one over the other are basically the same???? If you say they're basically the same then there wouldn't be an advantage, would there?

And finally you comment on my original topic and it's not - or wasn't meant to be - a totally different story. It was the topic of my first post. I'll let you have the last word since you seem to agree.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

Ok ok after reading 3 pages worth I understand why you guys love mt... I am just going to explain my point of view of the paddle shifters...

Honestly there is nothing like a mt you drive by feel, when I drove my previous mt cars I was never fixated (well at first during the learning process) on the rpms... You drive by what the car gives you, makes your foot part of the process...

Now, with the paddle shifters, it moves to your finger tips, I kid you not, you have to drive it to believe it, I am a true mt guy and went with the at for convenience and piece of mind (for possible future resale)... I would love to have a mt and get a performance clutch in there and shift through gears like butter milk at 6500-6700 rpm's... but the reality is I get the same feeling when I shift with the paddle shifters...

What I can tell you from 4 months of driving my paddle shifters... the redline is almost absolete, hands are quicker than feet, when I feel the need for speed (lol) I slap the shifter to the left and down to 2nd with my hands, then boom into 3rd, and so on and so forth...

and I kid you not I still have my gsr, and the 3rd to 4th shift as the civic/integra drivers know is ideal when you are speeding... the paddle shifters put out the exact same thing...

I THINK I AM GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A VID FOR REALLY...

94eg!

My buddy purchased one of those newest Volkswagen GTIs with the DSG 6AT paddle-shift transmission. He previously had a GTI 5MT, and a Eagle Talon TSI (AWD) 5MT before that. He's been driving the DSG for a year and a half now, but every time I talk to him he says he misses his old MT's more and more. He basically wants to kick himself every time he takes his brother Subrau STi 6MT for a spin. He's planning to trade out for the same GTI, but with a MT in another year (when he can afford it)...

I just thought I would share this experience as the DSG is supposed to be one of the foremost automatics available...

vincethe1

w

vincethe1

e

vincethe1

This is from your 1st post on this thread:

I beleive that statement is very false. (since the manual is faster and you can contorl the car better regardless if it's a rwd or a fwd)

To do that don't you have to slide or "drift" the car? Also you can do that in an automatic as well was my point.

If that can also be done in an automatic why even state it? (btw since you care about grammer so much it's not "excelerate", it's "accelerate".

That's the part that got me and that i did not enjoy at all, because it's total bs...they offer no high speed ability at all? they offer no manuvering at all?

i'm not even gonna bother arguing that.

DineshD

The fact is someone who can afford a brand new TL and wants a 6spd is most likely going to be someone who wants a quicker and sportier car ...

If Acura made a 6spd for the base model as well, there would be like 4 sold to date.

vincethe1

what acura is basically doing is promoting it's top of the line model the m/t...in cheaper cars, m/t is the standard transmission and automatic is an option and is more expencive....but those a cheap 5 speed manuals and cheaper cars overall...acura obviously looks at it's 6-speed manual transmission as equal or better than the automatic, not worse.

that's because on the 04-06 tl, when there was no type-s, the 6mt was basically the type-s of it's time, has the 4 piston calipers (brembo brakes) that the type-s has, has the front suspension of the type-s (stiffer than 04-06 automatics), has a chip module for the computer, ect...

also, if you look at the 04-06 tl's brochures, they picture the manual transmission tl in almost all their pictures, as well as in commercials and such, the manual transmission in the tl is the premium option, not the cheap one, look, even the price is the same no matter if manual or automatic...

the fact that most people in america prefer automatic is why the market is down for manual transmissions, when i bought my 6mt at acura of las vegas, there was only 2 6mts on the lot, a white one and a black one which is mine now....the rest were all autos and there was like 80 of them....that's a very small percentage for manuals, like 3-5%, which is what i hate because the next tl might not even have a manual because they sell so few here in america and there is basically no logical point for honda to offere them....that's the sad part and why i hate it when people said they get auto cuz of traffic......people, you don't realize that you are killing the manual transmission and that in about 10 years there will probably be very little manuals for sale if at all.....that's what kills me, the m/t is dying and i can't stand that because i love it to death, an automatic is just a boring car no matter what it is...

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

^^^ that's why there will always be a BMW to satisfy the enthusiast wanting a 6MT. Even if the MT makes up a small % of the buying population, I would really want Acura to at least offer it in a S Type or whatever for the next generation. One of Acura's saving graces IMHO of course is that it at least offers a 6MT ( and it is one of the best short throw 6MT out there) in its TL unlike the Lexus IS350.

94eg!

Holy crap! You actually found a 6MT in Vegas? I've only seen one other on the roads here (anthracite a-spec w/ smoked tails). I had to drive all the way to San Diego to find mine. Of course I wanted a used one and they where nowhere to be found. It sure worked out in my favor though considering Nevada residents don't have to pay sales tax on a "private party" purchase...

Shalooby

Vince, you are the one and also the last one to be correcting anyone on grammar or spelling.

You are obviously partial to the MT and seem to be trying to convince me that I'm wrong and you're right. You've told me numerous times that you know what I"m thinking or what I believe better than I do. Hell, you've even told me that you know what Acura is thinking. Must be nice to have such a elevated level of perception.
I think a lot of the confusion you exhibit here is the result of too many topics at the same time. I would imagine a fwd vs rwd debate wouldn't be too difficult for you but when we throw manual vs automatic transmissions into the mix at the same time it gets to be too much. It's OK, really. I understand. I'll try and keep my topics two dimensional from now on.

I'm glad that your so enthusiastic about cars and your choice of the TL shows exceptional knowledge, value, and taste. You also show a good deal of immaturity though in that you speak down about people who have chosen what you believe to be inferior. I'm referring to the "good for lazy people" quote and other things you have written.
Your young. Open your mind a little. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge to be had. Learn to appreciate things for what they are.

vincethe1

hey man, i get you but you also don't know me to be saying what i'm thinking...i do appreciate cars for what they are and that was exactly my point from the beginning....as i saw it u didn't apprecialte a manual on a fwd and that's whay got me. I appreciate automatics for what they are, heck, i drove 1 for a year and a half...(02 TL-S) and i actually bought a 07 Camry V6 SE 6-Speed Automatic but returned it because later on in that same day i discoverd damage on it and the dealer bought it back...and then i went and bought my 06 6mt TL...my parents were also mad at me for getting a m/t since i've been known for destroying cluthces before, and they are harder to sell in the futute. So i do appreciate automatics for what they are but i don't want to be the one driving them...i can deal with driving them as i have before, but i will always prefer a manual.