jwats

I need to change mine, would you put this in , or use GM or AMSOIL?

thanks

John

SodaLuvr

You can be the pig for the "improved" Honda stuff.

subinf

I'd go put it in today but I'm having some issues with Acura at the moment about the breather plate on the manual tranny and they marked my drain, fill, and check plug so I cant crack them until the warranty is up. I've got about 2k more miles to go.

Adobeman

I put the new and supposedly "improved" (Honda labeled) MTF in today. See my post #40 above about the Honda labeled fluid getting "improved"...its the same new fluid except in a Honda bottle and without the "A" ending the P/N. Now I'll drive it for a while and see if I get any resistance going into 3rd. It's not like it happened all that much but it was noticeable enough that I figured I'd give this a try. It had that same great (not) smell but seemed perhaps to be a slightly different color.

HEK

I've used the GM stuff and will say that after 7Kof shifting it still feels smooth like medicated cotton...


hey I bought my TL at Schaller but will never go to Avon for service....

mbarb17

I had the "new" Acura MTF put in my TL yesterday and although I will have to wait and see what a few more miles brings I have to say so far I am impressed. I would say I made 70 or so shifts to third last night and this morning and no problems what so ever. That previously would have been good for a couple of bad shifts.

When they switched out my original MTF for new "old" MTF a few months ago it felt better, but I still had one bad shift on the way home and one the next morning on the way into work, so this seems better based on the little experience I have with it. I will post again once I have some more miles on the new MTF, but as of now it feels like they gave me a new transmission.

Scott_6Spd

I bought from Avon and had my free services at Avon. I'm trying to decide Avon or Schaller. I agree that Avon has no-clue on the 6MT. But they are much closer and trying. I'll just ask them at the next oil-change to try again.

What's up with Avon?

Adobeman

I think they they might not have many MT customers and also that Acura seems to have not "officially" recognized any issues. Gerry at Avon seemed pretty open minded but not to the point of talking about anything but Acura/Honda MTF.

As far as Schaller using the GMSM FM fluid I didn't get a chance to talk to the service manager when I was in to order some parts. I will be back to pick them up and will ask exactly how they back the fact that they are putting in the GM stuff. It is doubtful they "cleared" this with Acura let alone Acura even knowing about it. I realize they don't need "mother Acura's" OK to do things but I'm not going to trust a dealership if they say "we will back it even if Acura won't"

First - I would not take the "new" MTF to mean anything other than Honda/Acura is updating their fluids. I think we would all be pretty naive to think it was because of the TL 6MT.

Second - Definitely a different color. I had some leftover of the old stuff from last time and it is much different. Old is golden yellow, new is reddish grey.

Third = Nothing dramatic in changes. Just like last time it seems to get better with driving about 100 mi. I have had two third gear not wanting to engage without pushing incidents since changing. None the last day or two. They only happen to me on 4 down to 3.

mbarb17

Update after a little more time with the new Acura MTF.

It definitely seems to perform better in my car then the old stuff did, that said it is not perfect. I have had one bad shift since I put it in and maybe two that weren't clean feeling. If you are of the mindset that you are not going to chance voiding your warranty (I was told flat out by my dealer that the regional manager had been consulted and it could cause problems with warranty if I/they put the GM stuff in), it is definitely an improvement worth making in my opinion. I will stick with it as I am not willing to chance it until the car is out of warranty.

Adobeman

Depending on how old your MTF prior to the change was you may be seeing some temporary benefits as I did the first time I changed MTF. Here is my update after a few weeks of the new stuff.

There is no appreciable shifting difference whatsoever. That said, there still may be overall improvements in the fluid that merit it's use. Just none that I see for shifting quality.

I am still finding that with shifts into 3rd gear are having that one extra "notch" about once per day. Most of the time things are fine but there are definitely times where it needs an extra nudge to fully engage 3rd gear. Most notably when traffic gradually slows down enough for me to need to go 4->3. It seems to be RPM sensitive as well the higher the RPMs when going 4->3 the less likely there is to be a problem.

I'm not quite ready to go to the GM stuff yet. A local Acura dealer is using the GM stuff but I haven't had a chance to talk to them about it yet. But aside from what Acura says there seems to be lots of miles racking up in 3G TLs on the GM stuff. When it was just S2000 stories that was one thing but lots of 3G owners have quite a few miles under their belts with the GM stuff and nobody has anything bad to say.

clsdave

I was hoping the new fluid would be significantly better than the old stuff. I'm using the GMSFM fluid and I guess I'll be staying with it. It seems to always resolve the shifting problems.

Thanks for your update Adobeman!

pettydw

The GM stuff has worked great for the last 25K miles in my car. If the viscosity was too low or the friction modifiers were not sufficient, I would have noticed gear whine or sticky shifting under adverse conditions and I have not. There is no comparison to the old Honda MTF in cold weather, it is night and day. Crunching the syncros on every cold shift with the old Honda stuff cannot do the tranny any good. I am not going to mess with success, so I will stay with the GM fluid.

trancemission

No use taking it to the dealer now. Thanks for the update Adobe...

I have sent this thread in an email to my dealer...

Legend2TL

I put in the "new and improved" Honda MTF today, it made a slight difference but nothing dramatic. I had no previous problems with 3rd gear or other gears, except I can feel the detent of 3rd gear synchro a little less now. The gear that it made a noticable difference in was reverse oddly enough.

Still may try the GM stuff one day, wait for some others here to log some longer miles to see how well it works with the 6MT box with the pinion gear limited slip.

trancemission

So far I think its working pretty well. Ive had the new acura fluid in and have not had an issue as of yet puttin it in 3rd. I still feel the notch going in but not nearly like it was before...

broly

Probably is a bit better.

My personal opinion is Adobe thinks it's the old fluid or "updated" and therefore he's treating it like it was before and not trying to notice little changes but rather see if it's any different at all than the old fluid which I think is a poor comparison.

That being said when you update your SKU and bar codes, even more improved stuff replaces the old stuff's barcode if it's in the same life or span for the car it's supposed to support.

Just my 2 cents.

Adobeman

OK, I'm not exactly sure what that sentence was supposed to mean, but if I am the "Adobe" you refer to then I think your incorrect.

• I think it's a new formulation of MTF, technically even an updated formula would be new. I do not think it is just a new label as we have heard others say.
• I was looking for any change, not just dramatic changes.
• Here is the kicker. After even longer with it in the g-box I almost think it is marginally worse than before. I have been paying particular attention to making sure my foot is to the stop with the clutch (thanks Sourthernboy) and I still have about one balky shift into 3rd a day.
• "...but rather [trying to] see if it's any different at all than the old fluid which I think is a poor comparison" Why is that a poor comparison? Should I solely look for similarities ? Hmmm. Slippery, called MTF and still smells like crap. OK?

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm stumped ? Anyone ?

Legend2TL

I read his comments also and was also stumped. Back to the new versus the old, some more notes.

- The "old" Honda MTF fluid I took out was ~4 months old with ~4K miles on it. I changed it out at ~15K miles to remove alot of the particals that were floating around that people in this forum experienced.

- The "new" fluid does look different, I have a partial quart of unused "old" formula and compared to the new formula. I do not have a viscosity stick but the new stuff besides being yellow (versus green) looks slightly thinner to pour.

- I drove it initially ~10 miles, then did a further 20 mile trip just now. For whatever reason but after the fluid warmed up I did noticed better shifting in all gears. Smoother and more fluid like to engage the synchro's.

- If there ever is a TL meet around the MD/DC/VA area, I'll have to compare my revised Honda MTF 6MT feel to a GM MTF 6MT.

- Even if you DO NOT have any shifting problems I recommend changing the original stock MTF to the "new" Honda MTF or the GM stuff. The difference is noticable. The cost is only 1 hour of time and $18 in cost.

Yakuza70

Had my '05 MTF fluid changed at 15,000 miles with the new Honda MTF. I had the third gear notchiness before too but it's now gone. Third gear still "clunks" a little going into third but it doesn't stick or pop out of third like it used to. The shifting in all gears seems much smoother now.

broly

Just saying that his early hunch of the "fluid" being similar may hinder his ability to actually judge if the fluid is better or not.

It's a common thought in psychology and it is very true. When people think something is the same, even if it is better, they will neglect the pro's of the new because they expect it to behave the same as the old.

This is a hinderance in judgement.

Also, I was saying that when newer products come out to replace older products, they often take the same model name and part # with maybe a digit/letter difference, meaning that even though it's the same SKU/P# it could actually be a whole new refresh.

BetteR?