8th Gen Accord vs Numerous Vehicles
08-10-2009, 02:10 AM
#41
You'll Never Walk Alone
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The thing is his car in stock form traps from 101-102.5mph, 98-100mph is for the 7th gen Accord with the 3.0L engine that puts down about 210whp or so stock. The new one puts down 240whp, and it's only about 100lb heavier. In other words, ~15% power increase and 3% increase of weight.
08-10-2009, 07:06 AM
#42
All motor
The thing is his car in stock form traps from 101-102.5mph, 98-100mph is for the 7th gen Accord with the 3.0L engine that puts down about 210whp or so stock. The new one puts down 240whp, and it's only about 100lb heavier. In other words, ~15% power increase and 3% increase of weight.
08-10-2009, 08:48 AM
#43
There's plenty on validity. In most of these case, you're simply beating drivers not the cars. I've raced much quicker cars at the strip (mid 13 second cars) and have beat them to the finish only because I was quicker to react and/or my 60' was better. If the race was on the street, to the observer, my low 14 second car would appear to be faster than the mid 13 second car I was racing
08-10-2009, 10:31 AM
#45
Senior Moderator
Looks like the gauntlet has been thrown down.
08-10-2009, 01:07 PM
#46
You mean the Accord running on that Canadian track that is the same one that a bone stock 03 6MT G35 sedan ran a 13.8? The same track that a stock C6 Z06 did a 10.9 on DRs? The same track that a stock Altima SER did a 13.8? Yeah, those times aren't the norm. What are other Accord owners running on a US track? I'd bet most modded Accords like that are doing 13.9-14.2@102mph. Prove me wrong.
BTW, my 14.3 was with a 350Z intake tube which adds no power. The power mods on my car add a mere 15whp, maybe.
BTW, my 14.3 was with a 350Z intake tube which adds no power. The power mods on my car add a mere 15whp, maybe.
08-10-2009, 01:15 PM
#47
Now as far as the auto accord V6 VCM goes its a couple tenths slower than a CVT altima down the 1/4 mile.
08-10-2009, 03:16 PM
#48
Senior Moderator
on both counts.
08-16-2009, 09:52 AM
#49
ShellZV6
lol i hear you i HAD a 7th gen AV6 with SRI and Exhaust on it i raced a new 08 V6 sedan and smoked it. and i raced a new 8th gen Av6 coupe Automatic though and i beat him to..but theres one kid that everytime we see eachother we go at it he has a 2008 Av6 Coupe 6MT and mine is a automatic Sedan with mods but we keep it close but he always pulls on me as expected..lol
lol sonnick and Ls TL i believe should all get a race goin my friend has the 07 AV6 6MT sedan with CAI and exhaust should all line up and see who wins.. thats be a really close race if u are all semi good drivers.lol...nice kills though
08-16-2009, 12:20 PM
#50
All motor
You already know Im down to run anybody win or lose Im all about friendly runs. Only problem L is in DC n Im on long island. Shelly ill run your boy.
08-16-2009, 07:59 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
There is nothing wrong with running a fast time at a fast track. Hell, there is going to be faster tracks and slower tracks everywhere depending on conditions and elevation. Just because its a fast track doesn't mean the time isn't valid. As far as I am concerned I have seen his timeslips and consider MickAV6's times valid.
08-17-2009, 04:57 PM
#52
Never said the times weren't valid, they're just not the norm. I find it funny people nutswing from these types of times and claim they're what the car is capable of. It's simply not true. Correcting times goes both ways when it comes to conditions. Correct down for poor conditions and correct up for below sea conditions. You run what you run, but don't kid yourself into thinking this is somehow the norm because if was, LOTS of these Accords would be posting 102-105mph traps. I focus on trapspeed because you really can't screw that up, regardless of your poor driving technique and trap speed shows available HP. ET is traction and driver skill.
We really don't know what normal is for this car yet(8th gen Av6 6MT). I haven't heard of any one else taking their 8th gen 6MT to the track except for L's TL. I think he said he went( i could be wrong on that.) When more people run we will find out more what is normal and what isn't. MickAV6 ran with a couple mods though and didn't run stock. So I don't know what baseline to use as far as that is concerned. He did trap 105MPH though on several occasions and averaged about 104MPH with all his runs. That gives a pretty good indication like you said of what the car is capable of. We only have mag times to contend with and most of the time those are inaccurate whether they run slower or faster than normal. So as far as I know now MICKAV6 is running normal times since there is no one to compare him to. He is a excellent driver as far as drag racing is concerned so a less experienced driver couldn't touch his 13.4 lol.
08-17-2009, 08:26 PM
#53
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say those times/speeds aren't going to be anywhere close to the norm for an 8th gen, regardless of driver skill. The power to weight just isn't there. I think it may be marginally quicker than a TL-S 6MT if at all quicker.
Does anyone know of that Caymandiver who ran his IS350 with 267 whp at 12.84 @ 109.2 mph at Cecil? That's approaching C6 Vette territory. No one in their right mind will say an IS350 with intake/exhaust is in the same league as a C6 Base. Check drag times for that particular track; there are RSX-S's with CAI's running 14.0 @ 101. I think this is a similar anomaly. Time will tell.
Does anyone know of that Caymandiver who ran his IS350 with 267 whp at 12.84 @ 109.2 mph at Cecil? That's approaching C6 Vette territory. No one in their right mind will say an IS350 with intake/exhaust is in the same league as a C6 Base. Check drag times for that particular track; there are RSX-S's with CAI's running 14.0 @ 101. I think this is a similar anomaly. Time will tell.
08-17-2009, 09:59 PM
#54
All motor
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say those times/speeds aren't going to be anywhere close to the norm for an 8th gen, regardless of driver skill. The power to weight just isn't there. I think it may be marginally quicker than a TL-S 6MT if at all quicker.
Does anyone know of that Caymandiver who ran his IS350 with 267 whp at 12.84 @ 109.2 mph at Cecil? That's approaching C6 Vette territory. No one in their right mind will say an IS350 with intake/exhaust is in the same league as a C6 Base. Check drag times for that particular track; there are RSX-S's with CAI's running 14.0 @ 101. I think this is a similar anomaly. Time will tell.
Does anyone know of that Caymandiver who ran his IS350 with 267 whp at 12.84 @ 109.2 mph at Cecil? That's approaching C6 Vette territory. No one in their right mind will say an IS350 with intake/exhaust is in the same league as a C6 Base. Check drag times for that particular track; there are RSX-S's with CAI's running 14.0 @ 101. I think this is a similar anomaly. Time will tell.
08-18-2009, 12:09 PM
#55
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say those times/speeds aren't going to be anywhere close to the norm for an 8th gen, regardless of driver skill. The power to weight just isn't there. I think it may be marginally quicker than a TL-S 6MT if at all quicker.
Does anyone know of that Caymandiver who ran his IS350 with 267 whp at 12.84 @ 109.2 mph at Cecil? That's approaching C6 Vette territory. No one in their right mind will say an IS350 with intake/exhaust is in the same league as a C6 Base. Check drag times for that particular track; there are RSX-S's with CAI's running 14.0 @ 101. I think this is a similar anomaly. Time will tell.
Does anyone know of that Caymandiver who ran his IS350 with 267 whp at 12.84 @ 109.2 mph at Cecil? That's approaching C6 Vette territory. No one in their right mind will say an IS350 with intake/exhaust is in the same league as a C6 Base. Check drag times for that particular track; there are RSX-S's with CAI's running 14.0 @ 101. I think this is a similar anomaly. Time will tell.
RWD does wonders for the IS. It screams off the line!
08-18-2009, 04:08 PM
#57
All motor
It sure did. I gotta run there lol. It seems off for a 175-180whp n 120wtq car to run those times..esp @99+
08-18-2009, 09:37 PM
#59
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
The Accord did put down 282WHP and 251WTQ so the power to weight ratio is there for a 13.4. Hell if he had drag radials instead of stock tires he would drop that ET a couple tenths with a lower 60ft. He trapped 105MPH!
RWD does wonders for the IS. It screams off the line!
RWD does wonders for the IS. It screams off the line!
What I am skeptical of is how the car put down over 10 whp more than the factory crank rating with just an intake and test pipe. That's a tough pill to swallow. That would be like a TL-S putting down 297 with those two mods and we all know that isn't happening.
08-18-2009, 10:26 PM
#60
All motor
You seemed to miss all my points about this being an anomaly. I believe the times, but do you see what I was getting at? Of course we all know that RWD is good in drag racing, but do you think that it enables a 267 whp 3500lb+ car to trap at 109 mph while running 12.8's?
What I am skeptical of is how the car put down over 10 whp more than the factory crank rating with just an intake and test pipe. That's a tough pill to swallow. That would be like a TL-S putting down 297 with those two mods and we all know that isn't happening.
What I am skeptical of is how the car put down over 10 whp more than the factory crank rating with just an intake and test pipe. That's a tough pill to swallow. That would be like a TL-S putting down 297 with those two mods and we all know that isn't happening.
08-19-2009, 01:49 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
Thank God some other people see where I'm coming from on this. I'm constantly debating with people about these wild times some people run. Yes, they ran those times and it's legit, but it's not the norm. It's been my experience over the years that a factory car with a good driver in sea level DA and decent track prep, will run a couple of tenths quicker than what you'll typically see in magizine (which uses correctly ET/MPH for sea level conditions). Now sometimes people figure out ways to make the stock car quicker like manually shifting the auto, speed shifting, etc, but the MPH rarely change and typically match that of the mags. MPH shows available HP and ET potential. In the mags, my G auto was good for 14.6s@97mph letting the auto shift itself. I ran a 14.3@98mph by shifting myself. In auto mode, the car ran 14.6s@97mph.
So when you read about a car running stellar times look at the following:
1) What was the DA like the day they ran? Often on these NE tracks like Cecil, E-town, Maryland, and The Rock (NC) to name a few plus a handful of other coastal tracks, fall and winter conditions are such that the air density is often negative. I've seen occasions where the air density was such that the car technically had 10% more power than stock. That's significant. In my car, the numbers woud go from around 230whp to 255whp with the same increase in torque.
2) Some tracks are quicker than others for no apparent reason. Example: My mildy modded 94 Z28 auto ran a best of 13.8@101mph here in KC in cool and dense fall air, but ran 13.5s@103mph in at HRP in Houston with no changes and in much hotter weather no less. I've seen the same exact thing with my old Maxima when running on a different track in Missouri. No changes to the car, same DA, .3 seconds and 2mph slower.
3) Dynos are tuning tools, that's all. What your car makes on a Dynojet in Kansas City means nothing comparison to what Joe Blow's car makes on the Church's Wonder Dyno in Socal (ie this thing kicks out crazy numbers). The fact that this 8th gen Accord makes 282whp sounds way too high especially since the mags are only getting 100-101mph out these 3,500 cars and that the motors are basically the same ones used in the TL-S. It just doesn't make sense. 100-101mph in 3,500lb FWD car suggest to me it's making around 240-250whp.
So when you read about a car running stellar times look at the following:
1) What was the DA like the day they ran? Often on these NE tracks like Cecil, E-town, Maryland, and The Rock (NC) to name a few plus a handful of other coastal tracks, fall and winter conditions are such that the air density is often negative. I've seen occasions where the air density was such that the car technically had 10% more power than stock. That's significant. In my car, the numbers woud go from around 230whp to 255whp with the same increase in torque.
2) Some tracks are quicker than others for no apparent reason. Example: My mildy modded 94 Z28 auto ran a best of 13.8@101mph here in KC in cool and dense fall air, but ran 13.5s@103mph in at HRP in Houston with no changes and in much hotter weather no less. I've seen the same exact thing with my old Maxima when running on a different track in Missouri. No changes to the car, same DA, .3 seconds and 2mph slower.
3) Dynos are tuning tools, that's all. What your car makes on a Dynojet in Kansas City means nothing comparison to what Joe Blow's car makes on the Church's Wonder Dyno in Socal (ie this thing kicks out crazy numbers). The fact that this 8th gen Accord makes 282whp sounds way too high especially since the mags are only getting 100-101mph out these 3,500 cars and that the motors are basically the same ones used in the TL-S. It just doesn't make sense. 100-101mph in 3,500lb FWD car suggest to me it's making around 240-250whp.
08-19-2009, 03:41 PM
#62
You seemed to miss all my points about this being an anomaly. I believe the times, but do you see what I was getting at? Of course we all know that RWD is good in drag racing, but do you think that it enables a 267 whp 3500lb+ car to trap at 109 mph while running 12.8's?
What I am skeptical of is how the car put down over 10 whp more than the factory crank rating with just an intake and test pipe. That's a tough pill to swallow. That would be like a TL-S putting down 297 with those two mods and we all know that isn't happening.
What I am skeptical of is how the car put down over 10 whp more than the factory crank rating with just an intake and test pipe. That's a tough pill to swallow. That would be like a TL-S putting down 297 with those two mods and we all know that isn't happening.
I could see why you are skeptical of the 280+whp but he does have trap speeds that support that rating plus his friend that dyno'd in his ITR on the same day same dyno and put down 171WHP which is right on the money for a Type-R.
08-19-2009, 03:42 PM
#63
I agree on it being an anomally. 109 mph trap for that IS clearly makes no sense with 267whp. I see what satinsilver is saying tho too..we will see other traps n ETs to compare. But the Accords numbers dont make sense, nor does the 60, yes 60whp jump @VTEC. But they are damn quick n sleepers for sure.
08-19-2009, 04:45 PM
#64
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
I'm sure as time goes on we'll see more dynos and ET's and have a better idea of what the car is capable of. It's definitely quicker than the 4th gen TL and possibly a bit quicker than a Type-S 6MT and that's pretty lame imo. Not taking anything away from the Accord, as I like them, but that's just another ball dropped by Acura. You wouldn't see Infiniti or Lexus let their entry level sport sedans get upstaged by an Altima or Camry, respectively. Well, I suppose the first gen G35 and Altima were fairly close.
08-19-2009, 06:17 PM
#65
I'm sure as time goes on we'll see more dynos and ET's and have a better idea of what the car is capable of. It's definitely quicker than the 4th gen TL and possibly a bit quicker than a Type-S 6MT and that's pretty lame imo. Not taking anything away from the Accord, as I like them, but that's just another ball dropped by Acura. You wouldn't see Infiniti or Lexus let their entry level sport sedans get upstaged by an Altima or Camry, respectively. Well, I suppose the first gen G35 and Altima were fairly close.
In reality its not sad though that the Accord coupe 6MT might be a touch faster than the TL-S 6MT. these are two different vehicles with two different purposes. One is a two door coupe and the other a 4 door sedan. Plus the TL-S is based off of the 7th gen accord. Now that the 8th gen is out the new TL and TL- SHAWD are built off that chassis. Hell a SRT-4 stage 2 can walk all over a TL-S 6MT and Accord 6MT and its a frickin dodge NEON for gods sake. But I am not at all upset that its faster than my accord. I would still take my accord any day! lol
08-19-2009, 06:59 PM
#66
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
Actually as sad as it is you do see this with the Camry and ES350. They are both powered by the same 3.5L (just like the TL and Accord are powered by the 3.5L) and the camry is faster than the ES350 due to the extra weight the lexus carries. So the ES350 gets upstaged in performance by the lesser Camry.
In reality its not sad though that the Accord coupe 6MT might be a touch faster than the TL-S 6MT. these are two different vehicles with two different purposes. One is a two door coupe and the other a 4 door sedan. Plus the TL-S is based off of the 7th gen accord. Now that the 8th gen is out the new TL and TL- SHAWD are built off that chassis. Hell a SRT-4 stage 2 can walk all over a TL-S 6MT and Accord 6MT and its a frickin dodge NEON for gods sake. But I am not at all upset that its faster than my accord. I would still take my accord any day! lol
In reality its not sad though that the Accord coupe 6MT might be a touch faster than the TL-S 6MT. these are two different vehicles with two different purposes. One is a two door coupe and the other a 4 door sedan. Plus the TL-S is based off of the 7th gen accord. Now that the 8th gen is out the new TL and TL- SHAWD are built off that chassis. Hell a SRT-4 stage 2 can walk all over a TL-S 6MT and Accord 6MT and its a frickin dodge NEON for gods sake. But I am not at all upset that its faster than my accord. I would still take my accord any day! lol
We'll see what happens with the new TL-S, performance wise. It's still gonna be ugly.
08-19-2009, 11:06 PM
#67
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Thank God some other people see where I'm coming from on this. I'm constantly debating with people about these wild times some people run. Yes, they ran those times and it's legit, but it's not the norm. It's been my experience over the years that a factory car with a good driver in sea level DA and decent track prep, will run a couple of tenths quicker than what you'll typically see in magizine (which uses correctly ET/MPH for sea level conditions). Now sometimes people figure out ways to make the stock car quicker like manually shifting the auto, speed shifting, etc, but the MPH rarely change and typically match that of the mags. MPH shows available HP and ET potential. In the mags, my G auto was good for 14.6s@97mph letting the auto shift itself. I ran a 14.3@98mph by shifting myself. In auto mode, the car ran 14.6s@97mph.
So when you read about a car running stellar times look at the following:
1) What was the DA like the day they ran? Often on these NE tracks like Cecil, E-town, Maryland, and The Rock (NC) to name a few plus a handful of other coastal tracks, fall and winter conditions are such that the air density is often negative. I've seen occasions where the air density was such that the car technically had 10% more power than stock. That's significant. In my car, the numbers woud go from around 230whp to 255whp with the same increase in torque.
2) Some tracks are quicker than others for no apparent reason. Example: My mildy modded 94 Z28 auto ran a best of 13.8@101mph here in KC in cool and dense fall air, but ran 13.5s@103mph in at HRP in Houston with no changes and in much hotter weather no less. I've seen the same exact thing with my old Maxima when running on a different track in Missouri. No changes to the car, same DA, .3 seconds and 2mph slower.
3) Dynos are tuning tools, that's all. What your car makes on a Dynojet in Kansas City means nothing comparison to what Joe Blow's car makes on the Church's Wonder Dyno in Socal (ie this thing kicks out crazy numbers). The fact that this 8th gen Accord makes 282whp sounds way too high especially since the mags are only getting 100-101mph out these 3,500 cars and that the motors are basically the same ones used in the TL-S. It just doesn't make sense. 100-101mph in 3,500lb FWD car suggest to me it's making around 240-250whp.
So when you read about a car running stellar times look at the following:
1) What was the DA like the day they ran? Often on these NE tracks like Cecil, E-town, Maryland, and The Rock (NC) to name a few plus a handful of other coastal tracks, fall and winter conditions are such that the air density is often negative. I've seen occasions where the air density was such that the car technically had 10% more power than stock. That's significant. In my car, the numbers woud go from around 230whp to 255whp with the same increase in torque.
2) Some tracks are quicker than others for no apparent reason. Example: My mildy modded 94 Z28 auto ran a best of 13.8@101mph here in KC in cool and dense fall air, but ran 13.5s@103mph in at HRP in Houston with no changes and in much hotter weather no less. I've seen the same exact thing with my old Maxima when running on a different track in Missouri. No changes to the car, same DA, .3 seconds and 2mph slower.
3) Dynos are tuning tools, that's all. What your car makes on a Dynojet in Kansas City means nothing comparison to what Joe Blow's car makes on the Church's Wonder Dyno in Socal (ie this thing kicks out crazy numbers). The fact that this 8th gen Accord makes 282whp sounds way too high especially since the mags are only getting 100-101mph out these 3,500 cars and that the motors are basically the same ones used in the TL-S. It just doesn't make sense. 100-101mph in 3,500lb FWD car suggest to me it's making around 240-250whp.
08-20-2009, 11:27 AM
#68
I do get what you mean though about the Altima V6 won't touch the G37 in performance and camry won't touch the IS350's performance. Only if Acura had a TRUE sports sedan with RWD and enough power to break into the 13's stock like the other companies then the accord wouldn't get near its performance like it is now. Its all up to honda/acura!
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