here is my ordeal. ive been driving AT for years now, and right now im in the market to find 04-06 TL 6MT. but ive been reading and reading about all the 3rd gears issues, constantly going back to the dealer to solve problems, etc. ive been dying for a MT for a while now, and finally found a car that i like (TL). is the 6MT worth all the issues, if i do get it, should i be worried for the future?

PS. this will be my first car with MT. but im not totally clueless on how to drive a MT.

 

I have an '04 manual TL and would never consider an automatic for myself, though I also own an '05 TL which is an automatic. However, that one is the wife's. I have a VERY strong bias in favor of manual transmissions for a host of reasons. That being said..

My '04 6MT has never given me any cause for concern. I has never had the "3rd gear" problems others have reported. Yes two years ago, I drained and filled the tranny with the GM Synchromesh Friction Modified fluid (easiest tranny fluid change I've ever done). But I confess that my manual transmission has been completely flawless for the 2 years, 8 months I've owned my car. Same with my clutch. Smooth, precise, positive, and just a joy to use. Ditto with the shifter.

So, if you find a good one, by all means.. go for it. And if you want or need some tips, PM me and I'll be happy to help you out.

Good luck!

 

If you're worried about the 3rd gear, get an extended warranty for it.

 

I'm with SouthernBoy. He stole the words right outta my mouth. I've had mine since July of 04 and I couldn't be happier. I've replaced the tranny fluid with the GM Syncromesh fluid that u've prolly read about and its been smooth sailin since then. I also installed the Comptech SS and fell in love with the car again. So do urself a favor and get the 6MT. You wont regret it. And yea, SouthernBoy is the go to man on anything concerning the manual tranny. I thought I knew how to drive an MT until I read some of his posts. He's extremely knowledgeable.

 

I also agree, i love my six speed & have had no problems since I changed to the Gm fluid.

 

southernboy: yea i read your posts on a different thread, something about fully depressing the clutch, wait 3 seconds, and so forth. i can see that u know what your talking about when it comes to trannys.
like i said before, i never really drove a manual, only a test drive with my friend's rx8. and he said i was actually okay for the first time. so hopefully i can find the right 6MT for me. thanks guys

 

The 6MT is nothing short of Amazing!

Oh, get that Comptech short shifter too. I just installed mine today and I'm more in love with the car than ever.

 

Unless you drive for an hour in stop and
go traffic twice a day, you should get the
6MT. Or move closer to work. The transmission
itself is bulletproof. I've made over two hundred
passes at the dragstrip. Besides, this drive
train is really nice to operate, rewarding even.

 

get the 6MT. the TL comes with one of the best short throw six speeds on the market IMHO

 

Wait three seconds??

If I had to guess, that post probably had something to do with the idea some were advancing that the ECUs in our TLs have software which holds the engine speed at the proper RPMs when upshifting for a few seconds as an aid in smoother shifting. I remember testing this theory with my '04 and found it to be true.. just as other members had reported.

However, I would never do this in normal driving for several reasons. It increases wear on the release bearing, serves to set bad habits in operating a manual transmission, and is dangerous. You're far better off to learn the correct way from the get go and then increase your knowledge from there.

 

Thanks so much for the kind comments.. I do appreciate them. Nice to know you found those posts helpful. Your tranny and clutch thank you, too.

 

200 trips down the quarter, eh (or is it the eighth?). What's your best time? What are your average times? Box stock?

Good for you. I love drag racing (my favorite motor sport). Nice to see your TL takes it.

 

Oh, BTW.. I also did my share of drag racing in my earlier years.

 

I agree. While it can always be improved upon, personally I have no plans to swap out my factory shifter for an after-market affair. I am very fond of it and like, you, I find it fits my needs and wants to a tee. It even looks great in the car and fits the car perfectly.. as in classy.

 

Hey SouthernBoy! You are just down the way from me! 270 - 495!! Forget Acura, how about I bring my 06 6MT to you for tranny issues? LOL! You should be ok for now, I just bought it in November. But don't move on me!!

I have 3800 miles, and I am switching to the GM Syn MTF next week! I don't have the problems some of these others have, but why wait until I do?

 

I've had both - a 5AT TL and a 6MT TL-S. Now that I have the 6MT TL-S I'd never go back. Yeah I had the 3rd gear hiccup but the GM fluid cleared it up.

My go for the you'll love it.

 

1/4 best of 14.30, consistent mid-14s.

I have an 05 V6 Accord 6MT coupe.
It has the exact same transmission.
I Broke two front engine mounts.
Clutch continues to work flawlessly,
especially since the only dragstrip
on the island was closed a year ago.

CT short throw shifter,
solid-metal shift cable bushings and
GM Synchromesh Friction-Modified
trans oil will induce you to take 50
mile detours. Half-tank of gas cruises
in the wee hours, Etc...

 

The only reasons not to get a 6MT:
1) Significant other has preference for auto (how I wound up with a 5AT ).
2) constant stop-and-go or bumper-to-bumper traffic
3) maybe a smaller buyer's market, and therefore slightly lower resale value, when you re-sell the car
Otherwise, a good manual transmission/clutch on a car is much more fun and involving than a slushbox, even a good one, on the same car.

 

well lets see, I have an '05 TL with 28K and comparing to my sis in law who lives in NY has 12K on her '06 auto and has had the brakes changed once already....6MT if you live outside the city but other than that, if you can manage both.......go with the manual....

 

hey thanks everyone for the input. ill keep u guys updated when i get the car. BTW, if i do happen to find one, could i get some pointers just to start out, so i dont mess the tranny up too bad. just any tips from you guys that might help me while im learning. thanks again.

 

I have an '04 6 MT and I've never had any problems with 3rd gear or any gear and still have the original transmission fluid. I recently took my car in to Acura for some work and got a TL loaner for the day that was AT and it made realize how happy I am with my MT. I agree with others on here that unless you have a lot of stop and go traffic I'd go with the MT.

 

Best times I've ever seen recorded for a 3G manual TL was by Car and Driver in their May 2004 issue. With an A-Spec version, they managed a 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and the quarter mile in 14.3 seconds at 99 MPH.

So your 14.3 (and mid 14's) puts you right in there and helps prove the point. Great job!

 

Go for it. Don't worry about the 3rd gear thing. I had the issue (mild case) and as soon as I switched the MTF to the GM Synchromesh Friction Modified all issues were completely solved. The car shifts beautifully now. Loads of fun to drive.

 

Don't forget you also get the Brembos with the 6MT. That alone makes it worth it. Personally I would never own a car like this with an auto when a manual version is available. The auto is a snoozefest.

 

Buying from a dealer means you don't know who owned the car previously and therefore you have no idea how it was driven. Buying from a private party has some advanatages, the best being you get to take a ride with them to see how they drive their car.. the worse being it's the "buyer beware" with private sales.

Here are some terminologies to help for the rest of this post:
Clutch pedal travel - the distance the pedal travels from full depression to full release.
Clutch takeup - the distance the clutch pedal travels from initial clutch engagement to full engagement.
Clutch shutter - a vibration or shuttering feel during clutch engagement, felt when starting from a stop.
Clutch howl - a noise from the clutch which many people calling "howling" that occurs during clutch engagement.. again from a stop.
Clutch slipping - failure of the clutch to apply sufficient pressure when fully released to "marry" the clutch disk firmly between the pressure plate and flywheel. In other words, when your foot is off of the clutch and you apply enough throttle, the engine speed increases faster than it should for the car's speed, the clutch is slipping. VERY BAD.


Dealer Sale:
1. Look at the rubber cover on the clutch pedal. Does it show an undue amount of wear on a corner (the lower left..)?
2. When driving it, does the clutch engage quickly with very little takeup or does it feel kind of mushy and does not seem to engage sufficiently until the clutch pedal is near complete release?
3. Are there any signs of noise or shuttering when releasing the clutch from a stop?
4. Does the shfiter move the transmission through the gears smoothly and with little effort, or do you need to force it some?
5. Is there any grinding during shifts not caused by you (most common reason for user-induced grinding is not timing your shifts with your clutch operation)?
6. Is the general feel of the clutch and shifting smooth, precise, and positive or is it loose and forced?


Private Sale:
All of the items mentioned for Dealer Sale apply here as well. When you take your road test with the seller, have him drive the car for a few miles first, and carefully note how he drives the car. Make sure, if possible, there are some hills with lights or stop signs during the drive.

What you are looking for is errors in operation which could tell you a lot about the condition of the car's drive train. There are four items involved here to which you should really pay attention:
1. How does he wait at a stop sign or light when on a hill?
2. When at a stop or a light, in what state is the clutch?
3. How does he travel?
4. How does he downshift?


1. If, while waiting for a light to change on an incline, he holds the car with the clutch and not the brake, do not buy this car. He is seriously shortening the life of the clutch.
2. If he waits at a light with the clutch pedal depressed and the car in gear the whole time, he is wearing the release bearing prematurely.
3. When driving along, does he rest his foot on the clutch or the floor where it belongs? If on the clutch, again he is wearing the release bearing prematurely.
4. If this is how he downshifts;
- foot off of the throttle and depress the clutch pedal
- move shifter into next lower gear
- start releasing clutch slowing
and the car has a fair amount of mileage, consider passing it up. This method of downshifting will significantly shorten the life of the clutch.

As for other pointers, there are a lot of postings about this topic on this site. Start off doing things the right way and continue from there. Avoid developing bad habits because they are much harder to break later on. Use common sense and learn how a clutch and manual transmission work.. this will help you immencely in learning the correct way to operate one.

 

6mt > *

 

Couldnt have said it better myself. I have an 06 6MT for myself and an 05 5AT. I love my 6MT and I dont think Ill be getting an automatic ever again unless its a family car such as an SUV or a boat like the 7 series/ M35. The power difference between the 6MT and 5AT is extremely noticeable. If youre concerned about its warranty issues get the extended warranty or lease it.

 

6MT all the way!! If you are worried about the 3rd gear issue, just switch the tranny fluid out to GM Syncromesh and it will be night and day! Do a search on GM syncromesh and you will be able to make your decision.

 

Do it, and dont think about it.

 

I've had my 04 6MT for a little over a year and 12,000 miles (it had 26,000 on the clock when I got it). I love the shifter. Never had any 3rd gear problems yet, using whatever fluid was in the tranny when I drove it off the lot. I love it. Sometimes it can be a drag in Atlanta traffic, but it's not like the Swedish bikini team parachutes in through your sunroof if you have an automatic. Traffic sucks no matter what.

I had an 06 5AT as a loaner. Nice car, but the personality is way more luxury than sport. The 6MT adds a ton of fun to the TL and I'd never buy the AT.

 

 

it really depends on where u live.. when considering for a manual... if u live in snow covered areas.. (most of winter) then.. go for AT.. less hassle... seriously... if i lived in CA... i would get myself all MT cars.. =)

 

It's interesting you say this, but you're right about the snow thing. Many (maybe most) people believe a manual is better in the snow. Actually a low torque automatic is better (all other things being equal).

 

im mostly likely will be getting from the dealer, a certified used. i live in PA, we get all the seasons, and im not always in traffic, so thats an upside.

southernboy:
what if your foot is right above the pedal, but not directly on it, would this be ok?

how should u correctly downshift? depress the clutch pedal, and easying off the throttle, but still giving a little bit, and then shift down....

 

asking this question here is like going to a kindergarden and asking if candy is better than spinach.

 

"what if your foot is right above the pedal, but not directly on it, would this be ok?" Do this for long and your foot will suffer fatique.

"how should u correctly downshift? depress the clutch pedal, and easying off the throttle, but still giving a little bit, and then shift down". No, it's much more involved than that to do it right. I would strongly suggest getting the basics down first before learning the finer points of downshifting.. and while getting the basics down, keep downshifting to a minimum.

But to answer your question, it's,
In with the clutch and off of the throttle.
Start moving the shifter to the next lower gear.
As you pass through the neutral gate, blip the throttle while engaging the clutch a bit.
Back in with the clutch, complete the shift and out with the clutch as you catch the engine RPMs coming back down.

Yes, this is called "double clutching". Try not to worry yourself with it at this time.. just get the basics down pat before moving on.

 

I have about 21k on my 2004 TL, and I never had a problem with the 3rd gear........still shifts as smooth as it did day one.

If I notice a diff I will deff change the fluid, but I don't think that should be a reason for you to not want a 6spd.

 

I don't mind my 5AT too much.. but from reading everyone's posts I'm wondering if I missed out...

I live in LA and got sick of the traffic. At least both of my legs are the same size j/k

 

hey SB, i just read your post about proper techniques on driving a MT, all about downshifting, double clutching, etc....very very very detailed, and hopefully with this information, i can learn the correct way to drive a MT. thanks for all your help.

 

It seems I forgot to weigh in on the subject at hand.

When I first saw this car (3rd Gen) on the lot in 03, I remember asking myself if it came in manual because it looked like it might be fun to drive that way. It was then, and it still is now! So I bought one this past November.

If you have a family and sig other can't drive a stick, aren't particularly co-ordinated, or any of the other negatives, then obviously don't buy it.

OTHER THAN THAT...BUY IT!

To me, it is no longer one of the ways to drive/enjoy this car...but the ONLY way!! Nuff said!!