TLNJ

There are a lot of threads re: the 6MT and how it is different/difficult in comparison to other cars. This is not (nor will it be my last) MT, however, I stalled a few times initially and it freaked me out. After reading how other people had similar issues....not to mention noticing that many of valet/car wash people have stalled my car I'm trying to understand why.

I did a search and read a lot, but I'm still not clear as to why. Is it the clutch, it is the drive-by-wire. Just trying to understand so when a friend drives my car and stalls I can somewhat sound intelligent when explaining why their stalling.

Thanks.

VTECboy

I stalled mine a few times when i first got it. I like the clutch engagement point close to the floor. It is like my old prelude. However, the drive-by-wire throttle felt like it had a slight delay in its initial response. I guess i've sort of gotten used to it now because I don't notice it. At first I used to feel like I had to "ride" the clutch slightly in 1st gear, but not now.

I've also had to get used to getting up to smooth cruising altitude by 3rd gear....and just going through the motions through 4th, 5th, and 6th when accellerating quickly up to speed.....so much power.....Damn Speed Limits!

mporter410

I stalled mine frequently after I first got the car. I figured out that it was because the clutch engages at the top of the pedal stroke instead of close to the floor. I have gotten used to it, but as a seasoned MT driver I find it annoying. With the engagement point so far up, it is easy to misjudge how much throttle to apply, thus making it easier to stall.

Pro Stock John

Clutch engages lower than you expect, but after a few thousand miles it comes up a bit.

I hardly ever stall it now.

I have 5,000 on ours.

jtruman

I have 20k on the car now, and I still stall the car once in a while. I put a "clutch stop" (search any bmw forum) about 6 months after I got, and it effective meant the clutch travels less distance before it hits "bottom", and it helped a bit.

You'll get used to it quickly, don't worry.

TL CHROMETIDE

hehe, i stalled a bunch of times too, but for now its hardly,

i've been driving for under a month, and yes i mean driving in general, not just the TL

and it's the only manual car i've driven

SouthernBoy

The day I bought mine, I drove two TLs. First a blue one and then the one I actually bought. The blue one had a more "normal" feel to the clutch pedal and engagement. The one I bought was a little different. Engage begins on my TL right off the floor.

At first, this caused me some problems, especially when coupled with a very quiet engine. I had to use the tach a lot to make sure I didn't stall or overrev the engine when starting off in first. But I got used to it real quick and now it's fine.

The problem is this. Clutch pedal travel on the TL is relatively short when compared to some other sedans in the same or similar class. And takeup is even shorter. Along with this is the fact that the engine is not tuned to make much torque at engine speeds right at and just off idle. Plus the fact that this is a drive-by-wire car.. there is a loss of throttle feel that one associates with a rod or cable throttle. So unless you watch what you're doing, you can either stall or overrev the engine very easily.

But once you get the hang of it, it's actually quite good. Most of the really great cars with manual transmissions have shorter travel and takeup and for good reason. The shortest in both of these catagories I've even experienced was in a late model SVT Focus owned by a neighbor. The best was in my former 2000 SVT Contour. Ford really did it right with that car (also the best brakes I've ever had on any car, bar none).

Hope this helps.

Legend2TL

I think it's mostly the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder design. The difference between the amount of force needed on the clutch pedal when it first is enaged and where the clutch is disengaged is kinda vague. This is sometimes to refered to the "clutch pickup point" as to when the clutch enages when you are releasing the clutch (outstroke).

The difference in force your foot can feel. The force should go down since you are not applying as much force to the pressure plate which is making contact to the flywheel via the clutch hence the transmission input shaft isstarting to turn. This difference in force allows your brain to modulate the trottle to keep the revs up or you will stall out (assuming you at at a stop).

I made this sound like complicated control system theory (which it is!) but is really quite simple. I think that the very small difference in force on the clutch pedal between engagement and disengagement makes it hard for you to get a mechanical feedback for your brain to know when to start modulation of the throttle. You and I compensate for that by using the tach more.

The DBW throttle takes a little getting used to but I don't think that is much of a issue when dealing with the clutch and making stall-free starts from a stop. One thing that I have wondered about the TL clutch is the following wording from the Acura TL tech description.

"CLUTCH AND DUAL-MASS FLYWHEEL

The TL has a compact clutch unit that's self-adjusting for consistent pedal height, feel and effort throughout its service life. This innovative clutch system automatically takes up the slack between the pressure plate and clutch disc and lowers release loads while maintaining consistent pressure for the diaphragm spring.

To reduce drivetrain shock and limit the torque load on transmission components, the clutch includes a one-way delay orifice (check valve) located in the slave cylinder that restricts return fluid flow during rapid clutch engagement. This makes the clutch engagement more gradual during overly aggressive release. ..."


You can feel the one-way delay orfice in action when you release clutch when you try to rapid shift.

SouthernBoy

To Legend2TL;

An extremely succinct and lucid explanation. Thank you for this excellent explantion.

Legend2TL

Thanks

TLNJ

Definetly some good stuff here. I have roughly 8k miles/6mos. I don't have stalling issues anymore...but I do have shifting issues 1-2, 2-3 smoothly. I'm not talking about a big hicup, but a slight one to the extent that I can feel it.

SoutherBoy-Read your old post re: proper down shifting and thought it was extremely informative...thanks.

SouthernBoy

To TLNJ;

You're most welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful.

Hey.. my wife (well both of us for her) just bought a 2005 TL this morning! A Satin Silver/Quartz/5AT/Nav. She loves it.. much better than her BMW.

youngTL

Was her BMW an MT car? Just curious if it was and you drove it how the shifting feel differed.

TLNJ

Congrats, yeah I just read your other post. Initially I wanted ebony, but ended up with quartz and I must say I'm very happy with it. Love the TL, I often find myself driving around with a big smile on my face!!

SouthernBoy

To youngTL;

No, her BMW was an automatic. While she drives a manual better than most people (as do both of my daughters), she prefers an automatic. So for me, I now can enjoy both, although I much prefer a manual transmission for my own personal driving machine.


To TLNJ;

You wrote, "..often find myself driving around with a big smile on my face".

I couldn't agree more. I do this every day. At the end of my work day, I can't wait to get out to my car and drive home. I take a longer route for two reasons: not to put my TL in jeopardy of truck-thrown rocks, and to enjoy driving it a little longer. I work in a pressure cooker many days (I'm a software engineer and our project is quite stressful), and getting in my TL is my sanctuary.. my stress reliever.

I really love this car.

Legend2TL

I agree, after a stressful day at work (I'm a engineer also) driving home in my TL with some decent tunes is great way to unwind.

A former colleague says she is the same way with her Mini Cooper S.

SouthernBoy

Hey Legend2TL;

To some of the general population this may sound crazy, but if we've had a period of snow or similar bad weather and I've had to drive my truck to work for maybe four days or so, I tend to go through TL withdrawals. I can't wait for the stff to clear up so I can take my car out and enjoy it.. I call it my "TL moment".

I used to tell people I was in therapy.. therapy being my car (would be cool to have that as a license plate but I bet it's already been taken... besides, I already have personalized plates on my TL).

Non-gearheads and people who have A-toB cars just don't understand. They tell me (about my analness) "it's just a car". Nonsense. It's my therapy.

SouthernBoy

Since I'm currently boatless, my TL and my guns are my salvation.

Legend2TL

I used to get my therapy from riding my motorcycle after a bad day at work to clear my mind, but the TL is better in that it has great sound and heated seats.

Hey most of us in this great forum totally understand and agree!