pinito

I have had manual transmissions for the last 15 years. So, I bought a 6MT TL. For some reason I am having a tough time getting the hang of the clutch (sometimes let it out too fast others too slow). When I get back into my old car, no issues. Anyone else experience this?

Stewie

Its not as smooth and easy to drive as other manuals I have owned.
But its no big deal to me.

coop1018

I thought the complete opposite. I feel it is very easy to use. However, I do agree that it is much different than any other car.

ensley696

I have some trouble with the clutch as well however, not a show stopper. I figure by 5k miles I'll have the hang of it, *L*.

pinito

Thanks guys! I don't think it's a big deal either but I was starting to get a complex!

spidey07

just takes a while to get used to.

but once you do you'll be lickity split shifting.

BostonPaul

I've been driving manual transmissions for 26 years and it took me about 1500 miles to master the TL's clutch. It is entirely different from the clutches on the 3 Audis that I've owned over the last 8 years. You will get used to it and once you do you will agree that it is one of the smoothest setups ever built.

TireSmoke

I agree... the clutch is tricky. IMHO, the "problem" is that it grabs high... after the point where it "cams" over and pops out quickly -- I hope people can understand what I'm saying. For example, the first few inches of travel from the floor on the way up is easy. Then it get to a point where the tension increases and it pushes up quickly. Most manuals that I've driven usually catch BEFORE this point. The TL catches at or after this point so you have a hard time getting used to letting the clutch out slowly enough not to be grabby.

Hawhyen51

Yea, it took me about 1300 m before I really got the feel of the it. I've driven a lot of MTs long before this one and everyone is different. The "Sweet Spot" on this took me a while to find, but when I did .... very smooth shifts in all ranges.

JetJock

Some days I seem to be able to shift smoothly, other days I just can't seem to get it right. It's the strangest clutch I've ever used. I have 2 cars with manual trannys, and it's just the TL clutch that gives me trouble. VERY STRANGE!!

seamg

My 6MT is my first manual tranny in 9 years. I have heard alot of long time manual drivers say that the clutch on the TL is totally unique. I've got over 5K miles on the car now and I have greatly improved, but sometimes it still is tricky at very low or very high RPMs. However, when you hit it right, the tranny is smooth as silk. I've heard someone describe the clutch as "very direct." I guess he meant that there is really not much room for play....either you get the sweet spot right or you don't. My biggest gripe with the tranny is that when you push the RPMs up toward 6,000, it takes too long for the RPM's to naturally drop to where they need to be for the next upshift.

coop1018

But forget it driving the clutch in wet sneakers, My feet stick to it and my driving is horrible.

Republican TL

The clutch does catch rather high. I have about 330 miles on mine and I pretty much have got it down now. I just moved the seat back a bit than what I used to have it as. With the tilt/telescope wheel, I still am able to be in the perfect driving position.

pseudonym

The clutch does seem to "grab high," as others have noted. After 12 years with a 5 speed Legend and three manual shift cars before that, it still took me two months until I was comfortavle with the TL. I stalled often, over revved more than I cared to, and generally felt awkard accelerating in first gear. I have gotten comfortable with the clutch and appreciate the TL's quickness and the sweetness of the gearbox. Patience and practice will win you over.

SouthernBoy

I find the clutch action in my TL to be the opposite of what some have described. It has a pretty short travel with a very short engagement. This is fine except for the fact that it starts to engage too close to the floor. I had this same problem with my '02 Altima SE and I adjusted that clutch pedal very soon after having purchased the car.

A few days ago, I crawled up in the driver's foot well to see how much of a problem the adjustment would be on my TL and it's not as simple as the Altima. The working area is very tight, so I'm waiting on the delivery of my Service manual to see if there is another way to do this. If not, I'll just have to get used to it.

Fredo0709

Does anyone else have a problem with first gear and sometimes second gear allowing the car to shake? It basically happens when i take my foot off the accelerator and the car will seem to buck forwards and backwards. It feels like springs are causing the vibrations... but I'm not sure. This is my first MT car and i've got 1800 miles on it. Still getting used to the clutch a little bit...

Randomly, at slower speeds, how do we drive this car smoothly? Do we need to ride the clutch? Seems like that's the only way to drive the car <10 mph w/o the bucking. Thanks for any input.

alexscoupe

The bucking at low speeds in low gears is generally common behavior with MT cars. To minimize the effect, apply a little gas, a little brake pressure, or put the car in neutral and coast until you need more forward movement. In slow stop and go traffic, I work the lower 4 gears and coast a lot. I only use first to get moving from a dead stop, then I go right into 2nd or neutral. Use 2nd to pick up any speed between 1 and 10mph, 3rd for 10 - 15mph, and 4th for 15-25. At these speeds the clutch goes in smoothly without fuss, and the v6 has enough power off idle to use the higher gears at low speeds to make stop and go driving as pleasant as possible without stressing the clutch too much. It should really never be necessary to ride the clutch, however smooth of a ride it may provide...

Fredo0709

Thanks so much for the tips... I will try them out tomorrow and get a better feel for slow speeds!

SouthernBoy

Yes, NEVER ride the clutch for any reason. You want to see people who haven't a clue how to operate a manual transmission, watch the ones who sit at a light on a hill and hold the car with the clutch instead of the brake. They have no idea of what they're doing or the damage they're doing to the clutch disk, pressure plate, and flywheel.

SouthernBoy

Another much-abused technique with manuals is downshifting. However, I must admit that from what I've been reading on this website, there seems to be a greater percentage of people here who might know how to do this correctly than on some other sites on which I have participated.. at least from the postings I've read.

kosh2258

The clutch on the TL is quirky compared to other cars. To me it has no feeling and it's really impossible to feel the point when the clutch is engaging the flywheel. The 1 - 2 shift is the toughest one for me to get right.

Now that I've had the car for a few months I'm getting used to it and can get clean shifts 99% of the time. Still, I wish Acura would address the dead feel of the clutch. It would make the car more enjoyable to drive.

If the car is bucking, you've let the RPM's get too low for the gear you're in. The engine isn't generating enough torque to keep running smoothly. Either down shift, or, if you're in 1st or reverse already, put in the clutch.

smides

I agree with seamg. It takes quite a while for the RPMs to drop, so if you shift with any kind of alacrity, it's usually the case that the revs haven't dropped sufficiently. Letting out the clutch at this point causes the drivetrain to bring the RPMs back down to match, and this can cause some jerkiness, indeed.

One "feature" of the TL, that I'm not sure I really care for is that if you're patient enough, the car will hold the throttle at the proper engine speed for perfect matching, all without any throttle input from the driver. The problem is that this takes quite a bit of time, so it's not useful in most acceleration scenarios, or perhaps I'm just too impatient. It is interesting, though, so try it out sometime if you haven't already.

Republican TL

You know also, I think being able to hear the engine would help in shifting. This car is too damn quiet!! Of course, my previous car was an '02 Camaro SS, so anything compared to that is quiet! But seriously, I like to be able to hear the rpms build and shift accordingly. I'll be looking into an exhaust system at some point. Comptech is out of the question because it looks terrible. Either that or get a shift light!!

SouthernBoy

I fully agree with you, Republican TL. Hearing the engine is a great aid in your shift timing. Doesn't need to be loud of offensive.. just there.

When I first bought my last car, a 2002 Altima SE (V6 = only engine), it was too quiet also and my shifting was affected. Within the year, I had adjusted the clutch pedal because engagement was occurring too soon, and installed Stillen mufflers. Big difference.

AirlineMuseum.c

What are the correct and incorrect ways of downshifting?

Aegir

If you do it incorrectly you end up in a higher gear. J/K

SouthernBoy

I'm going to take a chance and post this with the expectation I'll catch a ratio of crap for it. But this is a comglomeration of things I have written about over the years.. actually quite short since I did two college papers on this topic.

Enjoy and cut me some slack.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Note: As it says, this is a collage of various postings I have made over the past one and a half years on the altimas.net website. So you are likely to see redundancy as well as a few other items of disarray. But enjoy and I hope you learn something.




PROPER MANUAL TRANSMISSION DRIVING TECHNIQUES

What follows is a collection of writings which I have posted at various times on this website in an effort to help answer some questions regarding the proper manner in which a manual transmission should be operated. While there are certainly many ways to drive a car with a manual transmission, there is really only one correct way. I was most fortunate to have learned these techniques while I was still in my teenage years. In so doing, I was able to avoid developing entrenched habits before they became really bad habits and difficult to correct. It is my hope that this helps you learn what I have learned and perfected over the years. If you do, you will reap the rewards, both financial and in the knowledge that you have mastered a technique that few do in their lifetimes. Have fun!

Under normal driving situations (not racing), when you start out from a standing start, you do so with the lowest possible RPMs, get the clutch out to full engagement as soon as you can while adding throttle. If you do this correctly, the transition will be smooth and seamless, and the wear on your clutch disk, pressure plate, release bearing, and flywheel will be minimized.

If properly designed (sufficient size and clamping pressure, etc.), and properly installed with no defects (correct torque, non-faulty equipment, alignment, etc.), then the next, and most important, factor to the life of the clutch assembly is the operator.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY A CLUTCH CANNOT LAST THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE UNDER NORMAL DRIVING CONDITIONS.

When I speak of engine life here, I am referring to life before a serious teardown or part replacement such as a timing chain (200,000+ miles) or headwork. If you cannot get at least 100,000 miles out of a clutch, you are doing something terribly wrong. Obviously, racing and other extreme conditions such as towing constitute a whole different approach and, as such, do not come under this.


Don'ts:

Do not use any more engine speed (RPMs) than absolutely necessary to get the car rolling in first gear.

Do not hold the car on a hill with the clutch.

Do not wait for a traffic light to turn green with the transmission in gear and the clutch depressed.

Do not rest your foot on the clutch while driving.


Do not ride the clutch in any gear (obviously you will to a small degree in first to start off).

Do not down shift by just removing your foot from the gas, moving the shifter into a lower gear, then releasing the clutch slowly.


Do's

Start off smoothly and with low engine speed, and shift in such a manner that if you had a passenger on board, they would not even notice the shifts.

Hold the car on hills with the brakes.. that's what brakes are for. NEVER hold a car on a hill with the clutch. The amount of heat generated by doing this is incredible.

While waiting for a light to change or while sitting in heavy traffic, put the transmission in neutral and get your foot completely off of the clutch petal. Leaving it in gear for extended periods heats up and shortens the life of the release bearing. The normal condition of a clutch is fully engaged so it stands to reason that's where it should be most of the time.

Resting your foot on the clutch petal while driving engages the release bearing.. see above.

Avoid riding the clutch as much as is humanly possible. You will extend its life significantly.

If you do not know how to properly downshift, DON’T. Use the brakes (should do this anyway), and avoid downshifting any more than necessary. Improper downshifting is analogous to riding the clutch because that is what you are actually doing. Learn how to properly downshift first and save yourself the frustration of premature clutch failure.

Clutches are wear items, heavily affected by heat caused by friction. In a front wheel drive car, they are costly to replace, so unless you like shelling out a lot of money periodically for the replacement of these components, learn the correct way. Learn it until it becomes second nature like breathing.



I spent some time teaching a lady with whom I worked 10 years ago these techniques when she purchased a new '92 Honda Accord LX. When I last spoke with her, she had well over 140,000 miles on the original clutch with no signs of slippage. So I'm not jerking anyone's chain here. Learn to operate a manual transmission correctly and you will reap the rewards by saving a lot of money. Plus you will be one of the few who know how to do this right.

I don't mean to set myself up here as some kind of guru because I am not. But I have been driving vehicles with manual transmissions for over 40 years. I have spent the time to perfect the process into an art form because when done correctly, that’s what it is. When I sold my '88 Mustang LX 302CID, it was 6 years old and had 77,000 miles on it. When the buyer drove it, he asked me when I replaced the clutch because to him, it felt very positive. I told him that I had never replaced it and that it was the original unit. I added that it wouldn't make any sense to replace a clutch after only 77,000 miles since that is not very much wear. He had a little bit of a hard time believing this, but he did buy the car. Three months later, he called me up to let me know how much he liked the car and to tell me had had not wrapped it around a tree. He again asked about the clutch and I again told him that it was the original clutch.

I used to own a 1966 Chevelle SS396/360HP. I was the original owner of the car. For a period of about 2 years, I was street racing the car frequently on the weekends. At 83,000 miles when I sold it, it would still break traction in all four gears and the clutch had no slippage. It was tight and strong. Now granted, American cars have traditionally had stronger clutches than Japanese cars. This is changing because the Japanese are putting larger and stronger (torque) engines in their cars.



Downshifting

Ah yes, downshifting. If I had to name just one facet of manual transmission errors-of-operation, this would probably be it.

To understand how to operate a manual transmission, you have to know how the clutch assembly and transmission work, and I am going to take the assumption that most do on this forum. I will only clarify synchronizers. They serve to match the speed of the gears in the transmission as the shifter is moved to a given gear. Now for downshifting.

Let's say you are in fourth gear and you are approaching a stop sign, so you decide to downshift from fourth gear into third. What most people do is just remove their foot from the throttle, depress the clutch while moving the shifter from fourth to third, then start releasing the clutch slowly until they achieve full engagement. If you do this, what you are actually doing is riding the clutch in third gear. After all, the engine has returned to idle (or close to it), you get into third, then just ease the clutch out which pulls the engine from idle up to the RPM's at which it will operate at whatever speed you are traveling in third gear. Here is the correct way to do this in steps that I will break down in a moment.

Raise your foot off of the throttle.

Depress the clutch.

Start the shifter up into third.

As you pass through the neutral gate, let the clutch out a bit (doesn't have to be all the way) while at the same time blipping the throttle to increase engine speed BEYOND that which it will operate in the chosen lower gear.

Depress the clutch again.

Engage the chosen lower gear.

Let the clutch out while adding throttle.

As the engine RPM's decrease they will be met by the engaging clutch and opening throttle.

This should be a simple, smooth, fluid motion and you will know you've done it right if there is no jerking as the clutch comes out in the last step. Now for some details.

As you move into the neutral gate with your foot off of the throttle, the engine RPM's will be returning to idle. This is the point at which you want to blip the throttle a bit while at the same time engaging the clutch some. You want to get the engine turning faster than it will when you are in the lower gear you have chosen. The reason is that you want to spin the gears up to a speed that equals that at which they will be operating when you finally release the clutch in your downshift. If you do this right, there is no clutch slippage because the engine and the gears in the transmission will be spinning at the same or nearly the same RPM's. No slippage means you will get into gear with full engagement of the clutch sooner and with virtually no wear. To best understand this, you really need to know how a clutch assembly and transmission work together to deliver power from the engine to the drive wheels.

This takes a lot of practice, but if you get it down, you will be heads and shoulders above just about anyone else who drives a car with a manual transmission. You will begin to notice the mistakes other are making when they drive. Learn from their mistakes and it will both save you money and make you a far better driver.

So it's in with the clutch, start the shifter into the chosen lower gear, while passing through the neutral gate, blip the throttle and at the same time engage the clutch a bit to spin up the gears, then back in with the clutch as you get into the chosen gear, then finally release the clutch in one smooth operation.

Here's another little tip. Say you are waiting at a light for the green and your transmission is in neutral like it should be with your foot completely off of the clutch petal. When the light turns green, instead of just depressing the clutch and pushing the shifter up into first, pull the shifter partially into a higher gear first, such as second or third. The gears in those selections are not spinning as fast as the gears in first. By starting the shifter into a higher gear before you go to into first gear, you will cause less wear on the synchronizers and they will last far longer because they do not have to stop gears which are spinning at a higher speed. For cars which do not have synchronized reverse, definitely do this and you will not experience the grinding affect when shifting into reverse.

Say you are driving normally, shifting up through the gears to the one in which you wish to be for cruising. As you disengage the clutch and move the shifter to the next higher gear, you might notice a slight resistance just before you finish the shift. What you feel is the synchronizer for that gear forcing the drive gear(s) from the input shaft and the gears selected to "mesh". That is to say, their speeds are forced to equalize so that as they engage, there is no grinding and no damage to the gear teeth. That said, we can move to double clutching.

Double clutching was a technique that came about when earlier manual transmissions did not have synchronizers. If you did not double clutch, you would experience some serious gear grinding when shifting.

If you did not have synchronizers in your transmission, you would have had two choices when shifting gears: (1) put up with some really serious grinding and damage/breakage to gear teeth, or (2) manually match the speed of the gears in each selected shift so that you would eliminate the problems just mentioned in #1.

Suppose you are traveling in second gear, the engine is turning at 2500 RPM, and you are getting ready to shift to third. At the road speed you are going, let's say that once in third, your engine would be turning at 1800 RPM. When you remove your foot from the gas, the engine is going to loose RPMs quickly and by the time you get into third, the engine might only be turning 1200 RPM. Without synchronizers, you would need to raise the engine back up to 1800 RPM in order for the gears to mesh. By blipping the throttle and at the same time letting the clutch out some when you are passing through the neutral gate, you will both increase engine RPM and increase gear speed. As the engine RPMs fall back off, they will reach a point at which you will be able to complete the shift.

Since for years, manual transmissions have been fully synchronized, there is no need whatsoever to double clutch when upshifting and I definitely recommend against this practice.

Now downshifting is much like this, only in reverse. In other words, you are going from a higher gear to a lower gear so if your engine was turning at 2500 RPM and you wanted to shift to second, You would want to blip the throttle enough to raise engine speed to perhaps around 3200 - 3500 RPM.

When you are upshifting, the RPMs fall off and most people find it pretty easy to adjust to this and to add throttle at the right time so that when the clutch comes back out, they have the proper RPM's for the gear selection/road speed.

However, most people downshift by (1) removing their foot from the throttle, (2) moving the shifter into the next lower (or chosen) gear, then (3) slowly releasing the clutch while adding little or no throttle. This is NOT the proper manner in which to downshift. What you are doing in effect, is riding the clutch in reverse. In other words, you probably wouldn't dare attempt to start your car off in third gear because you would have to add a lot of throttle and really slip the clutch to get the car moving. When you downshift like the example I just gave, you are doing something similar to starting off in a higher gear, though it does take more energy to get a car moving from a dead start. Now if you double clutch during the downshift, you are spinning up the gears and the transition to the next gear will be quite smooth.


Junkyard asked a question about the concept of “passing through the neutral gate”. You don’t stop or stay in neutral. You are just passing through, so to speak. In your second question, you said I had mentioned to put the car in neutral when downshifting. Not exactly. Try this with the engine off.

Put the car in fourth. Depress the clutch and shift to third and let the clutch out. Now do the same thing, only this time as you pass through the neutral gate, let the clutch out some or a good deal and blip the throttle, then clutch back in, get into third, clutch comes out for the final time. That is the movement you want.

Incidentally, blipping the throttle is just a little stab at the petal, enough to raise RPMs to the desired level. You do not want to be on the throttle long because you will be in the process of shifting. Yes, this does take a lot of practice and may not come easily for many, but it is the best way, in fact the only proper way, to downshift because it very significantly reduces clutch and synchronizer wear (especially clutch), and once you get the hang of it, you will be able to do it quite fast.

The bottom line to all of this folks is to match engine speed to wheel speed in a given gear, and to do it in such a manner as to eliminate undue trauma to your drive train. I do this all of the time and have been downshifting like this since my late teens. I actually learned it from a magazine article (as I can best recall). If you know how a manual transmission and clutch assembly operate, all of the components and how they perform together, you will understand the beauty of the process.

Oh the grinding noise Junkyard hears when he starts letting up the clutch too quickly is most likely due to not having fully engaged the gear teeth and they separate (pop out of gear). That or he actually begins engaging the gear teeth before the clutch is fully depress so there is still some flywheel/disk/pressure plate contact.


One of the things I noticed right off the bat on my SE was that the clutch began to engage much too close to the floor for me (a contributor to the problem Junkyard has had). It was starting to engage about 1 inch from the floor, so I adjusted it out to 2 inches and it is fine. If you do this, just make sure you have the required toeplay, otherwise you will prematurely wear out your release bearing.

The purpose of letting the clutch out some as you pass through the neutral gate is to spin the gears up in preparation for the speed at which they must be at for the lower gear selection. This will allow you to get into that gear very easily. When you depress the clutch, you disengage the crankshaft from the transmission. The gears in the transmission will begin to slow down. By letting out the clutch some (or completely) in the neutral gate, you once again, MOMENTARILY, engage the full drive train and get the gears spinning. Only this time since you have blipped the throttle, they'll be spinning faster. As they slow down from the higher speed, your clutch will be coming out for the final time with the transmission in gear and the mesh will be smooth.

Try it both ways. Do it first the way you do it and notice that you have to add a little bit of force to get the shifter into gear. That's because the synchronizers are doing their job of gear speed meshing. Now try it the way I outlined and if you do it right, you will have virtually no resistance as you slip the shifter into your chosen gear.

Instead of going right into first as the light starts to go green, try starting the shifter into second gear.. don't have to go all the way into gear, though it won't hurt. This slows the gears down just as though you had gone on into first, but it's much easier on the synchronizers. And you won't get the "crunch" you mentioned when you have to move quickly.


To prevent rollback; practice, practice, practice, practice.

One way to do this is to find a nice little hill someplace where you won't be a bother to anyone. Take along some masking tape and mark off two sections with the tape a foot apart. Your goal is to keep the car from coasting back more than 1 foot.. of course you do not use the clutch to hold the car.. use the brakes. As you learn to do this, find another hill a little steeper. And so on, and so on.

alexscoupe

Good post! Your advice is great for beginners, I recommend reading up at howstuffworks.com for info on manual transmissions and clutches. I did so before getting my first (and current) stickshift car, and knowing how everything works makes you a better and more aware driver.

PoochaKannInc

Southern Boy:

If I could give you rep points I would, but the system doesn't let me...

Great post either way. Very informative read for those who are still beginners on a manual tranny. Thanks.

ITL

great write up, but a lot of redundant info makes for a long read....

I've never had to do it, but for early beginners, I've heard of people using the E-brake to hold the car on a hill while you attempt to get the car moving- true there will be wear on the e-brake, but I've yanked mine so many times playing in the rain and can tell no wear after 5 years in my current car.

I CAN tell you one thing, there won't be too many e-brake slides in my new TL, but hey, it's a lot of fun in a 96 Accord

PoochaKannInc

I've had to use the e-brake once when I had a car right up behind me...(less than a foot) and I was on a slope. I don't recommend it, but I did use it.

Take this as some advice from a beginner:
1. Practice as much as you can.
2. Eventually, you will be quick between the brake, gas and clutch so that the roll back will be imperceptible.
3. Also remember to be careful with the clutch and throttle. Finesse it, don't just stomp on the gas. You might not be going backwards, but the engine is revving at 4K rpm with the clutch half-engaged.
4. As Southern Boy mentioned, practice where there is no traffic. Otherwise, it is just the recipe for you to get into an accident, or stall the car 7 times in a row as you try not to roll back.

seamg

Thank you Smides! You are the first person to understand and experience what I was talking about regarding the slow RPM drop on upshifts. I was beginning to think I was nuts! Also, I absolutely experience the phenomenon of the car RPMs dropping to the perfect level and holding there for a seamless upshift without any throttle input from the driver. It is very interesting.

It is kind of annoying to wait for the RPMs to drop on the upshifts. I too think that it is in part that I am impatient. But, this is a performance sedan, so I think that quicker yet smooth shifting is not unreasonable.

Here is my thinking on the matter. If you want silky smooth "I can't even feel it" shifts, you need to let the RPMs drop sufficiently and then shift. This is the kind of shifting you would do when you are driving the car like a sporty sedan. However, if you really want to open it up and drive it like a sports sedan you need to sacrifice the silky smooth shifts and bang the shifts out a bit...not too much, but a bit, before the RPMs drop to that perfect level for smoothness. Yes, you are forcing the synchros to do extra work, and the shifts are not as smooth, though certainly not very rough, and you really don't sacrifice much acceleration. I think that when this car was tested 0-60, the shifts had to be banged out a bit, otherwise the times would have been slower.

What do you all think?

seamg

Turn the radio down, you'll hear the engine, especially when Vtec kicks in.

93SHOcar

I thought using the emergency brake to prevent roll back was the preferred method for starting out uphill. It eliminates the rapid clutch release and higher rev's that might otherwise be required especially if you have someone crawling up your butt at the stop. I set brake at the light, then as I am ready to go I release the button to disengage the ratchet while still holding up the brake. Then as I release the clutch and apply low throttle, I lower the emergency brake handle.

My last car (5 spd SHO) had a foot operated parking brake so using it was not an option . While I got very good releasing the clutch so as to minimize any rollback, it still seemed like it resulted in extra wear and tear.

SouthernBoy

I will admit that there can be times when you may need to use the emergency brake when stopped on a hill to keep from hitting the car behind you. But you'll find that these are rare. One of the problems with our clutches is that they are not very forgiving. The take-up is short and the engagement is even shorter and quick. This makes for stalling out and messed up launches. It does take some getting used to.

I have not found any problems, "yet", with slowly falling RPMs between shifts, but then again, I have not tried to wring the car out yet and do some more serious shifting. The reason engineers design this "feature" into the ECU is to force the engine to burn off any fuel which may have puddled from the injectors as you release the throttle. This aids lower emissions and since this engine is an ULEV engine, I suspect that's what's happening. If the throttle valve closed quickly, fuel would accumulate and then when you opened the throttle again for the next gear, you would have a momentary rich mixture.

Just my guess.

6spdzoomzoom

It's the clutch no the tranny. This car is hard to launch smoothly though.

Fredo0709

Southern Boy... Thanks so much on the informative thread. I'm a beginner to the whole MT world but you can imagine my willingness to read about and learn it before getting a $35k car. I live in Upstate New York in Ithaca and there are some pretty steep hills. Anyways, I have done a lot of reading on the proper ways to drive a MT and it all correlates... thanks again!

seamg

SouthernBoy. Can you explain a bit more about the quick half-shift into second before shifting into first when getting moving from a stop. I don't understand how that half-shift into second actuall causes a difference from directly shifting into first. What exactly is being accomplished?

thanks!

SouthernBoy

The gears are turning slower in the higher gears so the synchronizers have less "work" to do. To prove this to youself, while the engine is at idle, depress the clutch and quickly (though without a lot of force) put the shifter in first gear. Now do the same thing, only this time put it in third. You should feel a noticable difference in the effort needed to complete the shift.

seamg

SouthernBoy, thanks, but I'm still a bit confused. Are are you saying start rolling in second gear rather than first? I'm trying to understand so I can implement it. If you shift to second partly and then into first and then start rollling...what I don't understand is what that quick part shift to second did for you in terms of the smoothness of your start?

:?: