6MT owners
#46
the overexplainer
http://youtu.be/L04lFa-5IHE
^serves as a useful guideline.
Gangsta lean in a MT car of any kind isnt optimal.
#48
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
^well, what I found was that the engagement point was to LOW.
there fore I scooted my seat back. this way, instead of my legs doing the work, it's just my foot pivoting.
I'm used to dodges and their HIGH uptake clutches, where my whole leg was involved.
Now that I think about it, I probably caused my clutch to go.
there fore I scooted my seat back. this way, instead of my legs doing the work, it's just my foot pivoting.
I'm used to dodges and their HIGH uptake clutches, where my whole leg was involved.
Now that I think about it, I probably caused my clutch to go.
#51
Resident Dingo
#52
Racer
I wish I had more experience with other cars to compare my TL to.
#53
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Other manuals I have driven, 88 Nissan Sunny (Sentra for the American folks), 92 Toyota TownAce (Van). Both from the East Asia area, the Toyota was by far the easiest to drive, clutch was superb no shaky very easy to take off in 1st.
It was a diesel, but 100 times easier to drive then the TL but also 100 times less powerful :P
It was a diesel, but 100 times easier to drive then the TL but also 100 times less powerful :P
#54
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
Other manuals I have driven, 88 Nissan Sunny (Sentra for the American folks), 92 Toyota TownAce (Van). Both from the East Asia area, the Toyota was by far the easiest to drive, clutch was superb no shaky very easy to take off in 1st.
It was a diesel, but 100 times easier to drive then the TL but also 100 times less powerful :P
It was a diesel, but 100 times easier to drive then the TL but also 100 times less powerful :P
#55
Racer
That's what I was thinking too with the CDV. Of course it affects high RPM engagement too but thanks for confirming the off-idle effect. I'm used to driving clutches with instantaneous engagement so the little buffer/delay with the TL-S makes it more difficult to drive smoothly. Ironically, the S2000 also has a CDV but the clutch is much more forgiving.
#56
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
That's what I was thinking too with the CDV. Of course it affects high RPM engagement too but thanks for confirming the off-idle effect. I'm used to driving clutches with instantaneous engagement so the little buffer/delay with the TL-S makes it more difficult to drive smoothly. Ironically, the S2000 also has a CDV but the clutch is much more forgiving.
also i know on it, it also made the clutch pedal alot easier/softer/consistent to press at the same time too, and just smoother in general
and as far as the S2K being more forgiving, easy the spring/hole or what not is softer/larger then on the tl, so it responds better, and not dampened as much
#57
AZ Community Team
When the Acura press release came out in 2006 for the Type-S, it talked about a revised pressure plate and clutch disk to "improve" the feel. I checked the art numbers and they are different for the 04-06 6MT and 07-08 6MT. IIRC I believe the flywheel is different too.
#58
Registered Member
When the Acura press release came out in 2006 for the Type-S, it talked about a revised pressure plate and clutch disk to "improve" the feel. I checked the art numbers and they are different for the 04-06 6MT and 07-08 6MT. IIRC I believe the flywheel is different too.
Front drive cars are just not as strong as their rear wheel drive counterparts. It was clearly Acura/Honda's design direction to control the amount of shock and stress to the drive train components that result in really aggressive driving. Perhaps they would have done better to borrow a page from Ford's Contour SVT and copy their design. Now that was an over-engineered machine.
#59
Race Director
OP, don't worry, you'll adapt in time. I drove an MT Supra Turbo for 17 years before getting my 04 6MT TL. After 17 years of driving a stick, the TL clutch was still a handful to learn at first.
Now, after driving the TL for 7.5 years, I still on occasion stall out. Nothing to worry about, just takes a little time.
Now, after driving the TL for 7.5 years, I still on occasion stall out. Nothing to worry about, just takes a little time.
#60
Safety Car
iTrader: (3)
My TL is not my daily driver and I had a really hard time with the clutch too. Stalled a lot and when I really wanted to get on it, I felt like I was a first time manual driver riding the clutch.
After removing the check valve, I immediately felt it was 'normal' in both starting out from a standstill and banging through the gears. The mushy feeling of DBW still bugs me but it's tolerable with the clutch doing what I want now.
After removing the check valve, I immediately felt it was 'normal' in both starting out from a standstill and banging through the gears. The mushy feeling of DBW still bugs me but it's tolerable with the clutch doing what I want now.
#61
Moderator
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
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Stalling out after driving her for 7 years!!! I mean, we all do it occassionally but I think that's a testament to the fact that the car doesn't drive like most MT's. I say remove the slave...just don't beat on the car or shift too fast/aggressively. I don't regret removing it one bit. Car drove awkward and stressful...then did it and immediately the car drove as I felt it should have.
#62
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
for someone who has perfected it without doing the slave mod, can they record video footage of their feet driving so I can see how they are doing it.
I cringe every time I release the clutch in 2nd
I cringe every time I release the clutch in 2nd
#64
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
went out for lunch. Looks like low speed is fine, higher speed (like taking off from lights in traffic) is hardest. I guess the stress of having to go faster (shifting faster, releasing clutch faster) is the problem.
Meh I'll practice, I also find when the motor is cold it shifts smoother probably because engine is fast idling to warm up so its revving more then I do :P.
Meh I'll practice, I also find when the motor is cold it shifts smoother probably because engine is fast idling to warm up so its revving more then I do :P.
#65
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Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
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Hey...it's a free "mod"...
take out the delay valve in the slave cylinder. Make sure to have someone around to help you bleed after the fact.
You hate it or regret it...the whole slave assembly is $88 for a new one worst case. But trust me, we can talk about videos all day and theoretics on why we should or shouldn't and who's smarter and who isn't...bottom line, you will take it out. And you will be thankful for it.
I'm on 2 years with it like this with no obvious adverse effects that I'm aware of. The day I did this, I didn't hate driving my car anymore...quite the opposite. And that, is a fact.
The adjustment I was talking about was the 17MM bolt that adjusts the pressure switch (for turning on the car) and how far down you press the clutch before you feel the hardness and engagement.
take out the delay valve in the slave cylinder. Make sure to have someone around to help you bleed after the fact.
You hate it or regret it...the whole slave assembly is $88 for a new one worst case. But trust me, we can talk about videos all day and theoretics on why we should or shouldn't and who's smarter and who isn't...bottom line, you will take it out. And you will be thankful for it.
I'm on 2 years with it like this with no obvious adverse effects that I'm aware of. The day I did this, I didn't hate driving my car anymore...quite the opposite. And that, is a fact.
The adjustment I was talking about was the 17MM bolt that adjusts the pressure switch (for turning on the car) and how far down you press the clutch before you feel the hardness and engagement.
#66
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
the neutral safety switch then...
yeah you can play with it a little, to adjust the height some, but if done too much, you can actually stop the clutch fully disengage causing issues with getting it into gear (normally reverse, due to it normally not be synchronized like the rest of the gears)\
but also if you have trouble getting it into gear, it means it is dragging some causing excessive heat to build up, when you are stopped with it in gear and the pedal depressed (say waiting for the car in front to start going)
so OP i would be careful with messing around with the adjustments on the pedal, till you have driven the car a bit more, and can tell the small differences in how the pedal feels from the adjustments
yeah you can play with it a little, to adjust the height some, but if done too much, you can actually stop the clutch fully disengage causing issues with getting it into gear (normally reverse, due to it normally not be synchronized like the rest of the gears)\
but also if you have trouble getting it into gear, it means it is dragging some causing excessive heat to build up, when you are stopped with it in gear and the pedal depressed (say waiting for the car in front to start going)
so OP i would be careful with messing around with the adjustments on the pedal, till you have driven the car a bit more, and can tell the small differences in how the pedal feels from the adjustments
#67
the overexplainer
not my feet, but this is essentially what I do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OARgm9Uu2QM
^ignore the first start, but notice his clutch movement as he upshifts. Also, your feet will be moving proportionally (release clutch, push gas). During that small pause of slip you will be putting a tiny bit of throttle to control the RPM descent. once it's fully hooked up, release clutch, apply desired throttle.
Unless you're super duper skilled, "dropping" the clutch or releasing it without a pause when upshifting shocks the driveline and creates jerkiness (hence introduction of delay valve which can only help so much).
Last edited by ez12a; 04-11-2011 at 01:44 PM.
#69
Just ignore the people behind you.
It's kind of funny that I'm giving this advice because lately I've been paying a lot more mind to those road raging tailgaters and have been messing with my shift technique to keep the distance. It's throwing me off, shifts are jerky, and the stick just feels notchy and unpleasant. Even though I've been driving stick for 8 years (which isn't actually THAT much time) and know the basics of how it all works, I find I keep trying to quick shift in hopes of stumbling on something new. Now, I'm trying to reteach myself to not give a crap about those behind me so much.
#70
Racer
Don't worry about people behind you. If they hit your rear it's their fault. Chances are, more than half of people behind you don't even know how to drive a stick.
Cars that stop so close behind you on an uphill road is another thing that is annoying. Sometimes what I do is look in my rearview mirror and when the car behind me is approaching, I just let my car roll back just a little bit to make him/her aware of it.
Cars that stop so close behind you on an uphill road is another thing that is annoying. Sometimes what I do is look in my rearview mirror and when the car behind me is approaching, I just let my car roll back just a little bit to make him/her aware of it.
#71
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Up hill actually isn't a problem but I've had a few morons come way too close. I find releasing the clutch slowly till I feel it begin nudge a bit then quickly release foot off brake and give it some gas and go.
#74
3G TL/2G MDX Owner
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hmmm, i dont' remember my first driving experiences with my TL's clutch. i think it took me a couple of days to feel it out.
i had a much harder time learning to drive MT on my civic hatchback (way back when), that took a while (and my first time learning to drive stick, my poor civic). the engagement point on that car was freakin' small.
seemed like when i got my TL...get in and go. it might have something to do with muscle memory.
i had a much harder time learning to drive MT on my civic hatchback (way back when), that took a while (and my first time learning to drive stick, my poor civic). the engagement point on that car was freakin' small.
seemed like when i got my TL...get in and go. it might have something to do with muscle memory.
#75
Racer
hmmm, i dont' remember my first driving experiences with my TL's clutch. i think it took me a couple of days to feel it out.
i had a much harder time learning to drive MT on my civic hatchback (way back when), that took a while (and my first time learning to drive stick, my poor civic). the engagement point on that car was freakin' small.
seemed like when i got my TL...get in and go. it might have something to do with muscle memory.
i had a much harder time learning to drive MT on my civic hatchback (way back when), that took a while (and my first time learning to drive stick, my poor civic). the engagement point on that car was freakin' small.
seemed like when i got my TL...get in and go. it might have something to do with muscle memory.
#76
3G TL/2G MDX Owner
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yeah, that sounds about right...i was afraid of driving that car when i first had it, the fear of stalling it at a light and what not. once at speed on the hwy no big deal...around town that was whole other animal.
#77
Skillionare
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Not sure if this is right or not, but I just drive the damn thing and the sweet spot from 2nd to 3rd seems to be between 3 - 3500 RPM. Most shifts feel more confident too after fluid replacement as well. I could be wrong though because it definitely is tricky to drive. Damn thing handled like a beast on the drive home though. OWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!
#78
Moderator
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
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I learned on a 1990 civic Si.
And hell yeah, that thing would buck. But, once I got it down, you could let go of the clutch slowly and it would start rolling without any gas. Well, my 1991 hatch did.
About the TL...if you got in the TL and it felt normal to you...more power to you...
And hell yeah, that thing would buck. But, once I got it down, you could let go of the clutch slowly and it would start rolling without any gas. Well, my 1991 hatch did.
About the TL...if you got in the TL and it felt normal to you...more power to you...
#79
the overexplainer
I learned on a 1990 civic Si.
And hell yeah, that thing would buck. But, once I got it down, you could let go of the clutch slowly and it would start rolling without any gas. Well, my 1991 hatch did.
About the TL...if you got in the TL and it felt normal to you...more power to you...
And hell yeah, that thing would buck. But, once I got it down, you could let go of the clutch slowly and it would start rolling without any gas. Well, my 1991 hatch did.
About the TL...if you got in the TL and it felt normal to you...more power to you...
didnt expect to see a lot of old civic drivers
#80
LeftFoot, RightHand Happy
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OP: from 1-2 and for most other upshifting gears, you have to wait for the RPMs to drop, and then release the clutch. The RPMs will stop perfectly for the next higher gear, and you can release the clutch (smoothly) without worry. This is the only thing that bothers me about the TL, that the RPMs do not drop fast enough. Another poster mentioned about blipping the throttle to control RPM descent. That has NEVER been needed in my case. Search for some threads of mine from a long time ago, and see what I experienced, regarding rev matching.
And most importantly, read everything that SouthernBoy posts regarding manual transmissions.
And most importantly, read everything that SouthernBoy posts regarding manual transmissions.